ebolad

Please use the latest Rawr beta for any TankDK optimizations. I implemented some serious improvements.

Rawr - Release: Rawr 2.2.0b3

 

archmage

Went to the extent of firing up a Windows XP Pro SP3 VM running in Parallels on my Mac, JUST so I could run tools like this. Sadly, it doesn't work. Throws an error shortly after the splash screen, then closes. I retyped the error below, since it's actually not possible to "copy and paste" it, as the message suggests.

Why anyone would program anything in .NET is unknown to me. I checked around the "open source" (Microsoft) site for known issues and it appears others are having this issue as well.

 

Indaril

For general issues with Rawr, please use this thread:
http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t21713-r...leased_1_30_a/

or the dedicated section of the Rawr homepage:
Rawr - Issue Tracker

 

pfooti

Worth noting that you can run Rawr in the Mono environment on vanilla mac OSX. Go to Main Page - Mono and install mono, then use that. It's not pretty, but it works. The choice of .NET over (say) the Java environment was indeed an unfortunate one, but I think the history of the project is a kind of funny one you need to account for. Rawr was thrown together as a druid DPS simulator way back in the day. It happened to catch on well enough to become very popular, widely used and supported, and modular enough to support simcrafting other classes. The .NET choice is a legacy one, but if you consider the amount of donated developer time that Rawr has gotten, you've got to admit, it wasn't a terrible one. Who knows how many people would have helped out if it were in C++ using Qt instead? I suppose if it were Java, I'd be able to help out, but it's a moot point, really.

 

Spotnick

I have a question, which is why the trinket Fury of the five flights ranked as 0 in the list?

It is said to be the 2nd best in slot after the Noble deck trinket, so I'm always wondering why Rawr is not able to rank it.

I'm asking because maybe my sources are wrong, and if they are, I do have Loetheb's Shadow in my bank.

 

Safo

The Fury of the Five Flights, wasn't correctly modeled in RAWR for awhile I do believe.

If you pickup the latest beta build its right OR just modify its properties, because it probably doesn't have the stats set right.

As far as its BiS status, it definitly is one of the top two trinkets.

 

Cabal

Thats not quite as clear cut as you make it, it has been demonstrated that FOTFF only reaches its full potencial on very stationary fights, and its best used by DW DKs. It takes a long time for 2h to build up the charges, and if you drop it... Well, you get the picture.

 

Nekrataal

I'm using 2.2.0b5 and to me it seems as if Defense is overrated. I didn't look into the Source, but when i run the Optimizer it gems nearly everything for Defense, ending in ~170 Defenserating above being crit-immun. I personally would not gem so much defense beyond the critcap. Is it me underrating Defense or is there something strange going on in the TankDK-Model?

On another note, can you explain me why every of the stamina mixed gems (eg dodge/sta) is rated better than their puristic counterparts like just sta and just dodge. Is there some rounding failure going on or is it once again me who fails at the math. Shouldn't be 2x [Shifting Twilight Opal] be the same as [Solid Sky Sapphire] (the 24sta one) + [Delicate Scarlet Ruby]?

 

Bikiniwax

Do we have to uninstall Rawr to get new updates or will the application update itself?

 

Safo

Its just a new folder. It isn't an auto update, just DL the newest release and unzip it into the proper drive. The folder in the zip is always named Rawr<current version>, so you can keep as many versions as you like and they don't overwrite each other.

 

ebolad

Defense also improves IBF. Consider that you have it active at least 20% of the time and more if talented. It's also less influenced by diminishing returns. If you want more stamina, change the weights so Survival is worth more.

I'll try to look into the gems soon.

 

Bloody_sorcerer

DPSDK updates and improvements are in progress; once this term of school is over (~2 weeks), I should be able to dedicate more time to it.

 

Shazear

I'm picking up work on the TankDK module. I'd love for this community to review the numbers and recommendations and let me know what they think. Right now, it shows STA very heavily weighted over any other stat in almost every gear combination. And I've heard mixed feedback on the recommendations it provides from this module.

Please let me know.

Thank you

 

Big Jesse

I love this tool. I'm not much for programing, but i'm good at pointing out problems.
I have noticed alot of little things, Stam levels, Strength levels, ghoul not calc'ing right, etc.
Will be what help I can.

 

PristineChaos

Just wondering if rawr is correctly considering the values of the set bonii for DPSDK when optimizing gear.

For example, I have the t8.5 gloves and chest and it is advising me to use Chestplate of Titanic Fury (ARP/hit chest) over the t8.5 chest. Now is this considering the value of the 5% (soon 8%) crit to DC when deciding this? (this was done at max thoroughness)

 

Bloody_sorcerer

Yes, all T8 bonuses are modeled as they are defined on live. The only bonus currently unmodeled (and left to the user's devices to properly enter in the rotations panel) is the 4pc T7 bonus. I'll switch the T8 2pc from 5% crit to 8% crit in the near future. Also, I'm on summer break now; DPSDK is getting lots of much-needed attention. Coming soon to a rawr near you include razorice and cinderglacier, bloodworms, ghoul & bloodworm uptime controls, PROPERLY implemented and displaying sigils (!!!), direct-damage proccing trinkets (like bandit's insigina) will now have their procs accounted for, and some fun stuff like that.

Speaking of Cinderglacier, anybody have any idea what its PPM is? I haven't been able to find anything on it anywhere, and I can't wail away on a dummy for it until Tuesday or Wednesday...


Another thing I'm personally on the fence about implementing is some method of automating the RP dump portion of the rotation, which would (in theory) simplify things for the end user, but would also take some level of control away from the user. On the plus side, it would allow me to implement 4pc T7 in the model, which would then give 4pc T7 value (as well as give value to talents like dirge and chill of the grave). Thoughts?

Edit: Well, I went ahead and implemented optional RP management, and holy crap, no wonder 4T7 is getting nerfed... Oh, also, I figured out why frost has been coming out stupendously weak in rawr (blood of the north's impact on frost strike wasn't implemented, and crit was doing some weird things for HB and FS); it'll look much more reasonable now.

 

Drayerina

I experience some odd behaviour with fight duration (blood dps, BIS gear, all buffs enabled, standard rotation). If I increase the duration of the fight, dps gets higher and higher, and after 6 minutes some items even change places in the rankings. From 6359 @ 1 minute to 6567 @ 10 minutes. Any Ideas?

 

Spotnick

I'm curious to know why the Sigil of Vengeful Heart shows on top in the list of ranged for Blood spec, but Optimize keep telling me to switch back to awareness.

Great tool, but obviously it's not that stable for DKs. Many times it's saying to me to switch rings or trinkets of slots, and tonight it was to swap gems on 2 items but that would have changed nothing since the set bonus was identical.

Continue the good work.

 

Kapaneus

Great tool! I had a minor question though: Is rawr correctly modeling armor penetration for blood knights? I realize its an important stat, but rawr seems to be preferring it over higher level gear without armor pen. Thanks

 

Bloody_sorcerer

2.2.4 is lacking a lot of the good polish. 2.2.5 will be much more polished for DPSDKs. As for armor pen, the calculations for it are handled in cross-module and should be reliable (ArP for blood really does seem to be that good...)

As for runes, I'd still like to pin down their actual PPMs; right now I have crusader @ 2 PPM (was estimated to be 1 PPM before the proc was halved and the chance doubled) and Cinderglacier @ ~1.5 PPM (based *entirely* on anecdotal evidence and nothing else). If anybody happens to have solid data for the PPM of either of these runeforges, I'd be very grateful.

 

avnos

For a 17/51/3 dps frost dk how do the furious weapons rank for pve dps?

 

Eldanoth

I have been looking at some numbers for a blood using the normal blood rotation in Rawr 2.2.4 and I'm wondering about the 4 piece Tier 8 set bonus. I have looked at how it is calculated in the source code and it does seem like it is done correctly to me. It does however give some dps numbers that are quite a bit higher than what it seems like the DK community here on EJ give it credit for.

This is what I am seeing (raid buffs, 51/0/20, no ghoul):
5989 dps with 2 pieces T8 using Legplates of Double Strikes
5946 dps with 2 pieces T8 using Valorous Darkruned Legplates
6031 dps with 3 pieces T8 using Legplates of Double Strikes
6278 dps with 4 pieces T8 using Valorous Darkruned Legplates

Legplates of Double Strikes is 43 dps more than Valorous Darkruned Legplates without the 4 piece bonus.
Valorous Darkruned Legplates is 247 dps more than Legplates of Double Strikes with the 4 piece bonus.

The 4 piece bonus is almost a 290 dps gain. I know this math is a bit simple (and because of this probably a bit inaccurate), but it shows that the 4 piece bonus (if implemented correctly) is quite good for blood. Not looked at any numbers for unholy, but it should be even better for unholy than it is for blood I guess.

I guess my question is, is the 4 piece bonus actually this good, or is there something I am missing?

 

Soraia

Hm, I think the calculation for the 4pc T8 set bonus is wrong. I'm not convinced that HS is being modeled correctly either.

Right now, the model is: Weapon damage * ( 50% + 5% per disease ) * ( 120% if 4pc T8 ) + 368 + any other bonuses for HS

This means that if 4pc T8 is equipped, weapon damage and the disease damage are both being increased by 20%. This causes it to overvalue the 4pc T8 bonus significantly.

Based on how I read the skill and the set bonus, I think it should look like: ( Weapon damage * 50% + 368 + any other bonuses ) * ( 100% + 10% per disease * 120% if 4pc T8 )

I made this change to my local copy of Rawr and this seems to bring the T8 bonus more in line with what is said in the blood DPS thread.

 

Shazear

Heya Soraia, Given that your patch changes some functionality that Bloody_Sorcerer is actually looking at, I'd like him to evaluate the patch that you posted. Based on his feed back, he or I can check in that change with or without tweaks based on his knowledge of what he's doing in there.

 

Bloody_sorcerer

I've also got some pretty large changes to check in tonight; I'll look at the set bonus patch right after I get things squared away.

edit: set bonuses are updated, and I'm reviewing the 4T8 bonus implementation.

edit 2: 4T8 had something really broken going on (looks like somebody changed my original implementation, which was part of the problem), it's fixed now.

edit 3: Haha disregard most of this, I'm mostly a complete idiot. Coding while raiding leads to crap code.