Rawr Discussion - Page 7

Soraia · 05/22/09, 2:53 AM

Originally Posted by Bloody_sorcerer

The Tier 8 bonus is currently modeled as, in the case of heart strike, (0.5f + 0.1f * 0.5f * (float)calcOpts.rotation.avgDiseaseMult). That is, 50% + 10% * 50% * diseases. Although, looking at the set bonus on wowhead, it seems that this is actually lowballing the set bonus, since it should be 20% * 50% * diseases.

Er, I'm sorry but that doesn't make sense.

Wowhead describes rank 6 HS as: "Instantly strike the target and his nearest ally, causing 50% weapon damage plus 368, total damage increased by 10% for each of your diseases on the target."

In the current implementation, the code you cite multiplies the weapon damage (base weapon damage plus normalized AP contribution). Therefore, it looks like this handles the 50% weapon damage part plus the disease contribution to damage, multiplied by 50% just like the weapon damage. This seems to be independent of the 4pc T8 bonus.

4pc T8 increases the damage multiplier from databases by 20%.

Therefore, assuming that implementation of diseases is correct (which I disagree with, given the description of the ability), in order to model the 4pc T8 bonus, the piece of code you include should look like:
(0.5f + 0.1f * 0.5f * (float)calcOptions.rotation.avgDiseaseMult * (1f + stats.BonusPerDiseaseHeartStrikeDamage))

This resembles how the 4pc T8 bonus is modeled currently for the other abilities (BS, OB, and SS).

The way I read the ability, it looks more like it should be:
(50% * weapon damage + 368 + other damage bonuses) * ( 1 + 10% * number of diseases * ( 100% + 20% if 4pc T8 ) )

Kahorie's simulator seems to implement HS in this fashion but I am a little unclear on how it's handling the damage contribution from Sigil of the Dark Rider.

I personally haven't had the opportunity to do any in-game testing to confirm one way or the other and I will not until Sunday evening.

Eldanoth · 05/22/09, 7:36 AM

I'm not sure if the latest check-in is suppose to model HS correctly or if it just a step on the way, but something seems off.

HSDmg = ((combatTable.MH.baseDamage + ((stats.AttackPower / 14f) * (DW ? 2.4f : 3.3f))) * 
                        (0.5f + 0.5f * (float)calcOpts.rotation.avgDiseaseMult) * stats.BonusPerDiseaseHeartStrikeDamage) +
                        368f + stats.BonusHeartStrikeDamage;

Is what it looks like now, but it gives HS 7.12% (269.56 dps) of total damage done for me using 3 pieces T8 (when it should be around 30% judging from my guilds wws logs for fights where it only hits one target).

Using 4 pieces T8 HS does 17.99% of total damage (779.99 dps) so a gain of 510.40 dps or 289% increase in HS damage.

EDIT: Just noticed Soraia's post on codeplex, so trying out the new code now. Disregard this post as his description and knowledge about both code and calculations far surpass my own.

Soraia · 05/22/09, 3:41 PM

The update Bloody_sorceror posted this morning (revision 34113) appears to correct the issues with HS and 4pc T8 bonus modeling.

Bloody_sorcerer · 05/22/09, 3:47 PM

Originally Posted by Soraia

The update Bloody_sorceror posted this morning (revision 34113) appears to correct the issues with HS and 4pc T8 bonus modeling.

It corrects them halfway; the tooltip got changed at some point (I think) to mention that *total* damage is increased by xx% per disease, rather than just the weapon damage portion, so I'm fixing that right now.

Eldanoth · 05/23/09, 7:22 AM

I was wondering if it would be possible in the optimizer of DPSDK to add "target miss" and "target dodge" as Additional Requirements similar to those found in TankDK module. I understand that it might not be the best from a pure theoretical dps perspective (in that case the optimizer would reduce them to zero itself), but in-game i find that being hit capped and being soft capped on expertise usually provide more dps as misses and dodges at a bad time during the rotation can delay it or mess it up during the next time runes are ready.

You can always force certain gear in slots to make sure you are hit and expertise capped, but if the optimizer could help do it you would get the best way to use hit/exp gems/enchants etc.

If you want me to start writing these things on codeplex instead of the EJ forum just let me know.

Darkonte · 06/03/09, 11:22 AM

Has any1 Math-checked the dps for [Darkmoon Card: Death] ??
Rawr has it very high on the ranks even over [Darkmoon Card: Greatness].

txs a lot, maybe some1 has a BIS list of trinkets? (im frost but im interested on any of the trees)

svedka · 06/03/09, 12:06 PM

My rawr (2.2.5) is also listing Darkmoon Card: Death highly (above Greatness).

Spec 12-0-59

Eldanoth · 06/03/09, 12:14 PM

Rawr does not give the Greatness trinket correct values right away. For it to display its proper value you have to:

- Right click Darkmoon Card: Greatness in the trinket tab and select edit
- Edit the special effect so that it gives 300 str instead of 300 to highest stat (set the str value to 300 and the highest stat value to 0)
- Change the trigger to PhysicalHit

I think the rest can be left alone, but i deleted the special effects that procced of healing spells and damage spells. I guess this could introduce some small errors as it can proc on Physical crit, dmg spells and healing spells as well, so you might want to add triggers for this as well.

You may have to exit Rawr and start it up again for it to recognize the changes.

Hope that helps.

Growler · 06/03/09, 5:30 PM

Thankyou for that info on the greatness card! I was also one of those people stumped as to why it was coming out so low.

I've been playing with RAWR checking my current spec with gear and where to get upgrades etc. Will rawr let me do a comparitive parse with my current gear with differnt specs to see what spec would suit my gear better?

I'm currently frost, love it, and really wouldn't want to change unless I could prove to myself that it would be a significant increase, currently in our raids we run very low on shammies, even to the point where in 25's we sometimes have 0 on raid night, which makes the frost haste buff more important than possibly looking at other specs. Also a majority of the time I am the only DK in the raid.

Bloody_sorcerer · 06/04/09, 12:53 AM

Currently a combined talent spec + rotation comparison is not implemented (although it's a feature I'd like to add).

Melchior · 06/06/09, 6:25 AM

For some reason Sigil of Haunted Dreams is showing as a significant upgrade over Sigil of Awareness for 51/0/20. It seems to assume 100% uptime of the 173 crit rating.

Disargeria · 06/06/09, 1:01 PM

Oh hey, didn't even know we had a personal Rawr thread. I've been working on some nice numbers over in the WoW tanking forums and Rawr's been a great help, but I noticed the avoidance was slightly off for the DK. In the previous version the DK was off by around 2% avoidance, but right now I've noticed it's suddenly dropped 20%. 42% avoidance fully raid buffed has to be wrong.

Also, the armor calculation appears to be off. Looks like Inspiration is only giving around 1000 armor. And Frost Presence needs to be changed. =/

Morgannon · 06/06/09, 2:22 PM

Am I missing something, or is haste still extremely undervalued for Unholy in the latest build?

Soraia · 06/08/09, 3:33 PM

Originally Posted by Melchior

For some reason Sigil of Haunted Dreams is showing as a significant upgrade over Sigil of Awareness for 51/0/20. It seems to assume 100% uptime of the 173 crit rating.

That sounds like your rotation isn't set correctly. Rawr.DPSDK does not automatically devise rotations so you have to specify them yourself.

The apparent 100% uptime for the sigil is a known issue. However, unless a change snuck into 2.2.6 that I missed, this is still being handled correctly.

Melchior · 06/08/09, 6:20 PM

Originally Posted by Soraia

That sounds like your rotation isn't set correctly. Rawr.DPSDK does not automatically devise rotations so you have to specify them yourself.

The apparent 100% uptime for the sigil is a known issue. However, unless a change snuck into 2.2.6 that I missed, this is still being handled correctly.

The rotation for Blood looks like it's set correctly. How do I apply the patch posted in the issue report you linked?

Soraia · 06/09/09, 11:23 AM

I don't suggest going out of your way to apply the patch attached in the issue report. That patch will not change how Sigil of Haunted Dreams is calculated. Currently, the sigil's effect is loaded as occurring 100% but the actual handling for the trigger in the DPSDK model hard-codes the chance at 15%. The patch removes the hard-coding and changes the sigil's effect to have the correct 15% chance.

Assuming Sigil of Haunted Dreams has no internal cooldown, there is conceivably a point at which the crit effect on average outdoes the additional Death Strike damage from Sigil of Awareness. Assuming Blood with 2 points in Imp DS and the DS Glyph, Sigil of Awareness is only +512 damage or so every 10 seconds before taking crits into account.

Raxxnamas · 06/12/09, 6:34 AM

In the latest version, it seems a lot of items are missing their Arp rating. I had to manually edit it in for quite a few items. Also used the fix above for the Darkmoon Card which shot it up the table. However, my real testing has shown that for my spec, grim toll makes more dps than darkmoon card greatness (in conjunction with Mjolnir Runestone)

Seppetoni · 06/17/09, 9:54 AM

Originally Posted by Morgannon

Am I missing something, or is haste still extremely undervalued for Unholy in the latest build?

The new values for haste rating for DKs, Shaman, Ret paladin and Feral haven't been implemented properly it seems. When my gear functionally is at around 12% haste, Rawr displays it around 9%

Soraia · 06/22/09, 11:26 AM

If you've been using Rawr 2.2.5 or 2.2.6, I really suggest upgrading to 2.2.7.

@Melchior, it turns out that there was a modeling issue with Sigil of Haunted Dreams. This should be fixed in 2.2.7 (released this morning). The sigil may now be underrated but it should not be overrated like it used to be. (If you're preserving your ItemCache.xml file across versions, either delete and reimport the sigil or change its proc chance to 15%.)

@Morgannan and Seppetoni, haste "should" be modeled correctly for the DPSDK model as of 2.2.5. Would you please check to make sure you're still experiencing the behavior in 2.2.7? If so, what are you seeing and what do you think you should be seeing?

Quetz · 06/23/09, 4:08 AM

Originally Posted by Soraia

@Morgannan and Seppetoni, haste "should" be modeled correctly for the DPSDK model as of 2.2.5. Would you please check to make sure you're still experiencing the behavior in 2.2.7? If so, what are you seeing and what do you think you should be seeing?

I've noticed the same last night with 2.2.7, while I have ~13% haste, Rawr displayed ~10%.
I've got 339 haste rating:
339/25,21 = 13,45%
339/32,79 = 10,34%
Wich leads me to conclude that Rawr is still using the old conversion.

Soraia · 06/23/09, 12:51 PM

Aha! I see the issue. The calculations were updated a while ago to use the new Haste rating but the logic to display numbers was not. So, despite the display, the DPS contribution from haste should still be calculated appropriately.

I'll work on fixing the display later today when I get the time.

sirpwnalot · 07/01/09, 2:35 PM

I was also wondering about the greatness card. Thanks for clearing that up.

Now that I'm here. I notice that RAWR has [Worldcarver] above Rune Edge no matter how many configurations I try, but I see everyone on my server using Rune Edge not to mention "my favorite" lol (MAXDPS) has rune edge as a better weapon also. What are your opinions on the two weapons? I'm torn.
I've configured multiple specs and worldcarver always comes up ahead. The 70 armor pen on rune edge in addition to what I have at some point I think should be bringing me to nearly 100% reduction. Tired and maybe confused, but I still like it. Thoughts?

Morgannon · 07/01/09, 3:39 PM

Originally Posted by Soraia

@Morgannan and Seppetoni, haste "should" be modeled correctly for the DPSDK model as of 2.2.5. Would you please check to make sure you're still experiencing the behavior in 2.2.7? If so, what are you seeing and what do you think you should be seeing?

I guess the main place I'm seeing peculiar results is in the Relative Stat Values comparison and the gem rank list. Are these simply cosmetic, does Rawr ignore these for actual item comparisons? That's strange, if so.

Also, enabling Elixir of Expertise and/or the Expertise food buff appears to do nothing whatsoever. It doesn't change expertise value on the stats frame nor does it have any effect on total DPS or item comparisons.

This is all observed on a fresh install of Rawr 2.2.8, FWIW.

Teyrocar · 07/01/09, 4:28 PM

Originally Posted by sirpwnalot

I was also wondering about the greatness card. Thanks for clearing that up.

Now that I'm here. I notice that RAWR has [Worldcarver] above Rune Edge no matter how many configurations I try, but I see everyone on my server using Rune Edge not to mention "my favorite" lol (MAXDPS) has rune edge as a better weapon also. What are your opinions on the two weapons? I'm torn.
I've configured multiple specs and worldcarver always comes up ahead. The 70 armor pen on rune edge in addition to what I have at some point I think should be bringing me to nearly 100% reduction. Tired and maybe confused, but I still like it. Thoughts?

It's probably because your Expertise is low.

sirpwnalot · 07/01/09, 8:51 PM

Originally Posted by Teyrocar

It's probably because your Expertise is low.

I've thought about that too, but I've always been capped , and any armor design I do in the application I stay capped, but it still shows the axe above.
If it thinks I'm under the cap maybe the application doesn't factor in racail's, or blood talents that make my particular cap only 17? But even after I factored in an over the cap armor set the axe still came out above.

Also like to note that [Melancholy Sabatons] aren't listed with the Armor pen in the v2.2 8 update.

Neither are [Shoulderguards of Opportunity] or [Legplates of Double Strikes]