In 2.2.9 Rawr does seem to be correctly modeling human expertise. You can check this by switching from Rune Edge to, say, Betrayer of Humanity. I can't speak to whatever gear setup you're using in Rawr, but with your live armory gear you don't appear to be anywhere near the cap.

It might be tanking in human expertise, but it's not tanking into account talents. I had to build a 6 over cap scenario to see the sword come out ahead. So 3 points in "Veteran of the Third War" does not register.

Although 2.2.9 did put armor per back in the items I pointed out.

I have been using your tool, and I have found that off-hand weapons equipped in a DK's character sheet do the same amount of damage if held in the main hand. However, I'm not sure if this is item specific (I had silent crusader equipped in the off-hand). Also, if you enable 3.2 calculations and have a two handed weapon equipped, talent points in nerves of cold steel contribute to overall dps. Because of these, I think that potential dual-wield dps is being over-estimated by the tool.

Is this thread still being tracked?

I'm using the new 2.2.10 version of Rawr, and I just found something strange. It appears that Virulence is calculating as melee +hit as well as spell hit.

My build optimized WITH virulence to gem/chant for 5% hit (all from gear). When I dropped Virulence and re-ran optimize, it then gemmed and enchanted for 7% hit, with Draenei aura.

Anyone else noticed this problem? Or is there some other variable I've messed up.

I don't see that in the DPSDK or Tank module, it just gave 3% spell hit.

I have an issue with the Tank module. It calculations expertise strangely (or displays it incorrectly). On the summary it says 36 Expertise when it really is 23. The DPS module calculates it correctly.

Can anyone explain why the TankDK model (at least) shows items which only have Stam stats showing as having a threat rating? eg: [Figurine - Ruby Hare] or [Figurine - Monarch Crab] with all Stam gems socketed shows up with aprroximately 55/45(%) value Survival/Threat. I can understand the survival component... but not the threat. I am using 2.2.10 and viewing my Tank DK - Shaidar - The Scryers.

I have been using the dps module for quite a while and I'm very pleased with it and recently I started using the tank module as well for my offspec. I just can't seem to set it up correctly (or at least in a way i would expect to be correct). I'm mainly thinking about the threat/survivability weightings. I keep getting very very low values of mitigation items (dodge, parry etc) and at my current weightings (0.1 threat, 1 survival) it rates Warhelm of the Champion (dps helm from thorim25 hardmode) higher than conqueror tank helm and the high mitigation helm Helm of the Faceless.

Does anyone have an idea of some weightings of threat and survival that would give correct results for a offtank in ulduar10 and 25 (and coliseum when that comes)?

I would say that you should change the stat weights for Stamina if you wanted to find gear that has more avoidance on it. I get the same problem- Rawr recommends anything with high stamina, even at the cost of other defensive stats. If you lower it's stat weight then you may get the results you're looking for.

The Latest Version of Rawr seems to be way overvaluing hit for dual wield dk builds. Is there a way to adjust it manually through the interface?

In rawr 2.2.12 there seems to be a problem with both [Sigil of Awareness] and [Sigil of the Vengeful Heart].
They seem to add zero dps!!
Anyone got an idea how to fix this (like we always have to fix the Greatness Card)?

My awareness gives me an 387dps increase.


Glyph of Blood Strike doesn't seem to give a dps increase at all, even though i have 2 in my rotation.

in v2.2.13 There is armor pen missing again. I noticed in [Justicebringer 3000 Specs] but last time once I noticed it missing in one item it was missing from most, if not all of them.

I'm seeing Armor Penetration on that item in my local copy; if you're still having the issue, try refreshing it from wowhead or the armory. When item stats disappear (like ArP has in the past), it is usually something funky in the item parsing code, and a fix for it is released shortly thereafter, rather than a problem in the model itself.

On an unrelated note, I'm going to be supporting rawr.DPSDK on these forums more actively now than I have in the past - please continue posting feedback here!
A few issues I'm already aware of:
-T9 bonuses aren't modelled yet
-New DPS Sigil isn't modelled yet

For blood DK's specifically, does Rawr take into account the ArP soft cap with trinkets like Grim Toll and Mjollnir Runestone?

Not yet; some of the other developers are discussing the best way to handle these, especially in regards to using multiple ArP trinkets. Hopefully, there will be at least some degree of implementation in the next release.

2.2.14 just went out, here's some quick changes and improvements:

-Tier 9 set bonuses implemented
-Sigil of Virulence implemented
-Crit chance caps added to frost strike, howling blast, and icy touch
-KM proc usage percentage slider, to make it possible to better visualize the value of crit/agility/haste at various levels of KM efficiency (that is, how many KM procs you use versus how many KM procs get overwritten)
-Death's Choice and Death's Verdict support

Also, in regards to T9 set bonuses:

DPSDK Tier 9 set bonuses for horde players may behave strangely. This is not an issue with rawr, this is an issue with wowhead. On wowhead, the set name is listed as Kolitra's Battlgear (ie Conqueror's Kolitra's Plate - Item Set - World of Warcraft), whereas the armory (and every tier piece) shows it as Koltira's Battlegear. The Set bonuses will parse correctly when the items say they are in the Koltira's Battlegear set. If yours are not behaving correctly, open them in the item editor and change the set name from Kolitra's Battlegear to Koltira's Battlegear.

Is there something I'm missing here?

I have a DW Frost DPS DK, and 2.2.14 seems to be QUITE off.

In 2.2.13, it says I should be putting out about 29XX DPS, which is about right after spending quite a bit of time on the dummy getting used to the rotation. As soon as I load up 2.2.14 and load the same file, it says I should be at about 45XX or so with everything being the same. I even tried reloading the character from the armory and it had the same anomaly. It seems to have CRAZY high numbers for my frost strike for some reason.........


Also, I noticed a bit of oddity when screwing around in the rotation menu. When I load up my character, it will say 3021 DPS. If I change presence to blood, it drops to 2999, but if i change it back to unholy, it shows 2941 until I check and uncheck the ghoul option. It then goes back to 3021. I am not changing ANYTHING other than what presence.......


Just a bit of feedback. I may be doing something wrong, but all my settings seem to be in order.

I'm having trouble replicating your frost strike problem. How high is crazy high? Are any buffs accidentally checked? Does your rotation have a reasonable number of frost strikes (or abilities in general)? If you can post your saved file on Rawr - Issue Tracker I'll be able to take a better look at this.

In regards to the presence change + ghoul usage change combination, there seems to be a slight blip in the calculation that happens immediately after changing presence, and checking and unchecking ghoul is effectively refreshing the calculation to one that makes sense again. I'll take a look at that.

I will post it up there.

It says frost strike alone accounts for 1920.88 DPS (40.4% of my damage)!!

The only buff checked is Horn of Winter, only my glyphs are checked, my rotation is 2 IT, 2 PS, 3 OB (yes, I know I could do more OB, but I am paranoid about my diseases falling off since I am frost/blood and don't have longer diseases), 3 BS and 4.87 FS (this is the value it came up with when I told it to manage my runic power). I tried shifting my number of FS to 4 and 5, with only minimal change.

Regarding Rawr improvements:
Unholy's rotation should use Obliterate instead of Scourge Strike. You can customize it, but the default should reflect the current best build.

Is the ghoul (including the non-permanent version) getting expertise added to it? It gains expertise based on your hit rating, so 263 hit = 26 pet expertise.

Yes, ghoul is gaining expertise dependent on hit rating, and yes, the default unholy rotation needs to be updated... I forgot to do that for the most recent release, but it'll be in the next (assuming the next comes before more drastic unholy changes...)

Since the apreadsheet is currently offline I was trying to look at Rawr for some item upgrades I was looking to spend my conquest/triumph badges on for Tier. Whenever I load my character into Rawr under Fury warrior model, it tells me my ArP is 59.24% (729.6 rating) while I'm actually only sitting at 606 rating (49.2%) I've looked everywhere in the option, and when I load myself under the arms category my ArP goes even higher. is there something i'm not looking at regarding settings somewhere in the program? Thanks for any help