Pre-raid DK dps gear list - Page 6

Janraea · 07/14/09, 2:21 PM

Sorry I haven't updated this list in a while, I've been on hiatus. Massive update today though:

Originally Posted by Gothik

I would add [Verdungo's Barbarian Cord] to the waist list, 40 emblems of heroism.

Absolutely, I'm working on that one right now. Added.

Originally Posted by Griefknight

[Berserker's Sabatons] is a decent trash drop from reg UP that I think would fit well on the list.

Kind of weak comparatively, but I didn't have any BoEs in the leg list, and they're better than the green at the bottom. Added.

Originally Posted by bolera

Please consider adding the following items to the list: Whalebone Carapace - Kalu'ak Honored, Whale-Stick Harpoon - Kalu'ak Revered. By far the easiest faction to gain without running heroics; revered is almost possible to achieve without a single daily run. Both I believe are better than available quest gear and are great for those about to start heroics.

I think they were both already on there, but I may have added them at some point and forgotten. Anyway, they're in.

Originally Posted by poor-boy

I like the Keystone Great-Ring. i know it has defense crap on it, but with Str and bladed armor, it's a nice little bonus. Drops from the Prophet in H DTK

That's 32 str and 14 ap, which puts it even with the blue quested rings you get at level 71-72. It's a great item, but too weak for dps to be on the list.

Originally Posted by scythax

Firstly thank you for making this thread and list, for me personally it has been a fantastic help.
I was wondering though, since I myself am on the hunt for pre-raid gear for my DK, would you say that [Snake Den Spaulders]qualify for the list of shoulder piece options? I ask this mainly because it's what I'm using now, and have been having some serious troubles finding willing groups for regular HoL. It would be nice to know if I am ok with what I have, or whether I need to keep plugging away at the LFG channel. Best regards.

Happy to have helped. Snake Den Spaulders aren't very good for us (haste is only somewhat better than spirit); including the socket, they're about even with the Oracles shoulder ([Gold Star Spaulders]). I'm sure this is too late to help you, but I'd recommend grinding the Hodir rep up to get [Spaulders of the Giant Lords]; unless you're a scribe, you'll need that rep anyway.

Originally Posted by Ghostyman

A valuable addition to the list of gloves is [Fists of Loken], especially if you are solid on hit. Drops off of normal Loken, you may even get it if you instance while you level.

Definitely worthwhile - added.

Originally Posted by xeridae

I have been pretty disappointed with the lack of DPS plate gloves. Obviously I have been trying to get a replacement for mine but I pretty much have to rely on drops unless I want to do the quest for the CoS gloves which I am leaning towards.

Yes, there's a big shortage on those. I'm adding a pair of chain ones to the list from H. VH - [Handgrips of the Savage Emissary] are an ok stand-in.

Originally Posted by katoria

Would the [First Mate's Pocketwatch] be a decent trinket you might consider adding to the list of Pre-Raid Items? It's attainable at the end of a three-part chain quest in the Howling Fjord area.

No, there are solo-questable trinkets that beat it.

Originally Posted by spinal77

Perhaps a weapon that should be added to the list is [Greatsword of the Sin'dorei] for horde or [Claymore of the Prophet] for the alliance. Just a little bit of daily grinding and you can get it.

Absolutely! Those didn't exist yet when I made the list, but they definitely belong on it. The one-handed counterparts also go on the 1h list.

Originally Posted by iroared

Choker of the betrayal (ZD drakuru quest) is statwise better than that dagger JC neck, so if you have that one then maybe include the choker as well?

Fair enough. Added.

Originally Posted by jopps

What kind of dps would do you think is possible to reach in pre-raid gear? Say that you have top 3 pre-raid items (as listed in the first post) in all slots? 2000dps? 3000? Fully buffed and unbuffed?

Wrong thread. This is *just* for gear listing. If you want to talk about dps, etc, go to the Simple Questions thread.

Originally Posted by TheIceMan

You could add 190 ap / 95 hit trinket (wg / honor), and iam also missing [Incisor Fragment]

I've been intentionally skipping pvp gear - there's lot of that, and good pvp gear is fine, but it would double the list in size. People who want to pvp for a month to get their gear will do it anyway, and that is easy to look up. The Incisor Fragment definitely belongs though, and has been added.

Sorry for the extremely long post, there was a lot to reply to and update with.

Slider_1128 · 07/22/09, 3:13 PM

What about any of the Rewards for Wintergrasp? I realized the Resiliance is useless but alot of the PVP gear has alot of Str, and you dont even need a grp to run heroics. Its not different from grinding rep.

Janraea · 07/22/09, 4:13 PM

Originally Posted by Slider_1128

What about any of the Rewards for Wintergrasp? I realized the Resiliance is useless but alot of the PVP gear has alot of Str, and you dont even need a grp to run heroics. Its not different from grinding rep.

If you'll look at the paragraph immediately above your post, you'll see that I ignore pvp gear - there is a lot of pvp gear, and nearly all of it would belong on the list. If you want to pvp for your gear, go ahead - you can probably fill every slot that way.

jem · 07/23/09, 11:47 AM

I'd like to contribute a short list of alternatives that can be obtained soloing (rep, professions in the guild, AH etc).
The advantage is that you can go for them with 100% "drop rate" without competition, not unimportant in a DK-crowded environment.
Group quest rewards included.
PvP-items excluded here, focusing on raid-preparation.
Profession specific items also excluded, and the Kirin Tor rings due to the price...
In case of a Ulduar-dropped plans an easier alternative is suggested.

With theese limitation the items in this list are some of the best DK-dps-items right now.

Compared to the best items from instances (including heroics and emblem of heroism-items) this list provide in total about 100 less DPS, (about 160 equiping the alternatives to the Ulduar-drop plans), thus giving your character enough to skip instances and head directly for raids, (if you want).

Hope the list can be useful for some.

2H [Titansteel Destroyer]
Sigil [Sigil of Arthritic Binding]
Head [Spiked Titansteel Helm]
Neck [Titanium Impact Choker]
Shoulder [Spaulders of the Giant Lords]
Back [Cloak of Bloodied Waters]
Chest [Battleplate of Unheard Ovation]
Wrist [Vengeance Bindings]
Hands [Savage Saronite Gauntlets]
Waist [Belt of the Titans] alt. [Clinch of Savage Fury]
Legs [Legplates of Bloody Reprisal]
Feet [Battlelord's Plate Boots] alt. [Death-Inured Sabatons]
Ring [Titanium Impact Band]
Ring [Signet of Bridenbrad]
Trinket [Darkmoon Card: Greatness]
Trinket [Crusader's Locket]

Tassy · 07/24/09, 9:20 AM

are these good enough pre-raid gear in such a case that those you stated here don't drop?

Shoulders: [Snake Den Spaulders]

Wrists: [Bands of the Stoneforge]

Janraea · 07/24/09, 10:10 AM

Originally Posted by Tassy

are these good enough pre-raid gear in such a case that those you stated here don't drop?
Shoulders: [Snake Den Spaulders]
Wrists: [Bands of the Stoneforge]

Haste is a pretty bad stat for death knights, especially at low gear levels. I could see using the shoulders as a stopgap till something better comes along, but there's absolutely no reason to wear those wrists - [Vengeance Bindings] is a craftable that's *very* cheap (12 saronite bars and an eternal fire), and even [Hardened Bone Wrist Protectors] is slightly better for most specs (and is from a solo quest).

advocate70 · 08/01/09, 10:59 PM

I would think that [Savage Saronite Pauldrons] should be included, and I would add another vote to include the biggest dps-shoulder omission: [Snake Den Spaulders] Thanks!

Janraea · 08/03/09, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by advocate70

I would think that [Savage Saronite Pauldrons] should be included, and I would add another vote to include the biggest dps-shoulder omission: [Snake Den Spaulders] Thanks!

The [Savage Saronite Pauldrons] probably should go on the list, just because they're so easy to get (they flood most auction houses) - I'll add it.

But the [Snake Den Spaulders] DO NOT belong on this list. There is a green quest item that outranks them. There is a *craftable boe from level 70* that outranks it, [Ragesteel Shoulders]. Please read some of the dps threads in this forum - haste rating is terrible for us. Stop suggesting this item, unless you have an argument prepared that includes dps weights at the appropriate gear level, and a link to the argument for or derivation of those weights.

Nefiir · 08/03/09, 1:34 PM

Haste really isn't awful for 0/10/61 Unholy builds. At Naxx gear levels, Method's chart (ref: Unholy Gains Shadow of Death (Unholy DPS Discussion now with more 3.2!) lists Haste at 1.276 APEP.

So, compare [Snake Den Spaulders]:
Str: (50+16)*2.981= 196.746
Haste: 50*1.276= 63.8
Total: 260.546

with [Savage Saronite Pauldrons]:
Str: 52*2.981= 155.012
Crit: 43*1.234= 53.062
Total: 208.074

Comparing to other pieces and, at least for Unholy, they are competitive with the rest of the shoulders on your list for 0/10/61 Unholy builds.

Surinam · 08/03/09, 3:34 PM

I have breifly looked through this list and the postings after it. Is the list in any kind of order, i.e. best to worst, or did you just post the items as they were added? I don't realy know a lot about what makes a good DPS item so I can't tell. Reason I ask is that some of the epic items are placed beneath the rare items. Am I to think that a certain Blue item will do better than an Epic when it comes to DPS?

Thanks
Surinam

Krevak · 08/03/09, 9:11 PM

Might want to add [Stalactite Chopper] to the list for 1-handers. It's a good slow weapon without the hit rating on it and is pretty easy to obtain.

Woy · 08/04/09, 10:34 AM

Originally Posted by Surinam

I have breifly looked through this list and the postings after it. Is the list in any kind of order, i.e. best to worst, or did you just post the items as they were added? I don't realy know a lot about what makes a good DPS item so I can't tell. Reason I ask is that some of the epic items are placed beneath the rare items. Am I to think that a certain Blue item will do better than an Epic when it comes to DPS?

Thanks
Surinam

Your questions are answered in the original post. To be clearer about the second: The list (and these boards, for that matter) reckon the value of an item by its stats, and how they contribute to your particular spec. That's why the OP indicates the use of stat weights for Unholy. Some of the epics you're referring to are intended as tanking, which makes them less valuable for dps than rares at or near that iLvl. Some of them are leather, which means they're stacked with attack power (Unholy's ghoul scales better with strength than AP) and agility (only contributes to melee crit, unlike crit rating).

The list is really only effective as a gear primer for entering Naxx, anyway: 3.2 is going to sharply change the baseline gear expectations for entering a raid, since a variety of iLvl 213, 226, and higher epics will be purchasable with the badges dropped in heroic dungeons, the reward badges from the daily dungeon quests, and (in the case of iLvl 213 gear) from drops in the heroic version of the new 5 man.

advocate70 · 08/04/09, 3:33 PM

advocate70 · 08/04/09, 4:21 PM

Originally Posted by Janraea

The [Savage Saronite Pauldrons] probably should go on the list, just because they're so easy to get (they flood most auction houses) - I'll add it.

But the [Snake Den Spaulders] DO NOT belong on this list. There is a green quest item that outranks them. There is a *craftable boe from level 70* that outranks it, [Ragesteel Shoulders]. Please read some of the dps threads in this forum - haste rating is terrible for us. Stop suggesting this item, unless you have an argument prepared that includes dps weights at the appropriate gear level, and a link to the argument for or derivation of those weights.

Sure. Method's stat weights, see Optimal gearing: The BiS thread for Unholy lists Strength at 2.97, Hit Rating at 1.97, Expertise at 1.51, Haste at 1.42, Critical Strike at 1.35, Armor Penetration at .94, and Agility at .93 of APEP, (see interactive chart) and for Blood it lists Strength at 2.89, Armor Penetration at 2.75, Hit Rating at 2.51, Expertise at 2.47, Critical Strike at 1.53 Haste at 1.5, and Agility at 1.37 of APEP, see other interactive chart. (As for the change from the numbers from Method's chart in the Unholy DPS page, underneath that chart it states that "This information will be updated based on the BiS thread that has been started, thank you to Norg for starting discussion focused on gear.")

The [Snake Den Spaulders] seem to be rated a little higher for Unholy than Blood, but still rate out in the top 4 for both specs. And my suggestion of [Savage Saronite Pauldrons] was influenced by my Unholy-centric gear view, as they rate higher for Unholy than Blood. That said, those ratings for pre-raid gear (all gemmed with [Bold Scarlet Ruby]) that rank as high or higher than [Savage Saronite Pauldrons] follow for each of these two (generally the DPS) specs, please note that the top four for are the same for both specs:

Unholy:
Shoulder:
[Spaulders of the Giant Lords] (17.64) (Revered with Sons of Hodir)
[Snake Den Spaulders] (17.24) (Slad'ran in H Gundrak)
[Pauldrons of the Lightning Revenant] (16.82) (Ionar in N HoL)
[Mantle of Volkhan] (16.14) (Quest in HoL)
[Shoulderplates of the Beholder] (15.40) (Moragg in N VH)
[Gold Star Spaulders] (14.95) (Revered with Oracles)
[Pauldrons of the Colossus] (14.66) (Drakkari in H Gundrak)
Crafted:
[Swiftsteel Shoulders] (14.54)
[Savage Saronite Pauldrons] (14.17) (AH - these should be cheap)
[Ragesteel Shoulders] (14.03)
Leather:
[Demontooth Shoulderpads] (16.78)
[Spaulders of the Careless Thief] (14.77)
[Trollwoven Spaulders] (12.88) (significant drop-off)

Blood:
Shoulder:
[Spaulders of the Giant Lords] (12.71) (Revered with Sons of Hodir)
[Pauldrons of the Lightning Revenant] (12.55) (Ionar in N HoL)
[Mantle of Volkhan] (12.17) (Quest in HoL)
[Snake Den Spaulders] (12.11) (Slad'ran in H Gundrak)
[Ripfiend Shoulderplates] (11.89) (Doom Lord Kazzak in Hellfire Peninsula)
[Wapach's Spaulders of Solidarity] (11.83) (Northrend Drop)
[Shoulderplates of the Beholder] (11.44) (Moragg in N VH)
[Pauldrons of the Wardancer] (10.93) (Hydross on Serpentshrine Cavern)
[Blood-stained Pauldrons] (10.90) (Rage Winterchill in Hyjal Summit)
[Gold Star Spaulders] (10.86) (Revered with Oracles)
[Mantle of Long Winter] (10.42) (Quest in Storm Peaks)
[Pauldrons of the Colossus] (10.11) (Drakkari in H Gundrak)
Crafted:
[Swiftsteel Shoulders] (10.62)
[Savage Saronite Pauldrons] (10.18) (AH - these should be cheap)
[Ragesteel Shoulders] (10.02)
Leather:
[Demontooth Shoulderpads] (13.46)
[Spaulders of the Careless Thief] (12.12)
[Trollwoven Spaulders] (11.34) (Less of a drop-off for Blood)

Janraea · 08/04/09, 5:13 PM

While you convinced me that the Snake Den Spaulders are sufficient to make the list (I hadn't been tracking unholy dps lately, and hadn't realized the valuations differ so strongly from Frost's now), I'm not going to bother.

The patch came out today, so almost every part of the list needs changing. I don't play my DK anymore though, and maintaining this list has gotten tedious. If anybody would like to copy the list, update it to 3.2, and repost this thread, feel free - I'm sure the diligent but new DKs would appreciate it.

I'm deprecating this thread; I won't be updating the first post anymore. If a moderator would lock it, so incorrect information doesn't get bumped later, I would appreciate that.