DW Tanking Builds 3.3 - updated 12/01/10 - Page 13

Zerath · 01/20/09, 7:58 AM

Originally Posted by m0nkehh

Hey, new to forums but been looking around

Here is my current build, any suggestions? Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft ((10/54/7))

Frost Aura does not stack with anything.

You skipped Rime, why?

Deathchill isn't needed and shouldn't be needed in an IIT build due to there is plenty of 5 pt talents so, no requirement on "fillers". It isn't *that* great of a talent, 2m for 1 crit? Meh. Point is better spent elsewhere.

I would pull 1pt from BA and 2 pts from Unholy Command and put those 3 in to Virulence.

**On-topic**

Finally agreed with myself on a spec I'm going to try out: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Pestilence on trash mobs due to no cd for DRs but the sad part is HB at the 5s cd. Been using it on the 6s cd over the weekend (specced DW dps) and it's alright. That extra second *should* be nice.

Thought: Why doesn't Blizz make a Glyph that shortens HB? Granted, our Major Glyphs are already getting packed with awesomeness.

Will be using Frost Strike, IT, and UA glyphs. Will have IBF in my bag, just in case.

pdpi · 01/20/09, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by Zerath

Thought: Why doesn't Blizz make a Glyph that shortens HB? Granted, our Major Glyphs are already getting packed with awesomeness.

Will be using Frost Strike, IT, and UA glyphs. Will have IBF in my bag, just in case.

Not sure you meant "in my bag" figuratively, but if you didn't, remember you can't change glyphs in the field.

Torn · 01/20/09, 10:10 AM

So you're going to trade ~150 AP (1 point Bladed Armor) with 1% spell hit (1 point Virulence). I'd swap that talent point but otherwise I think that's a very solid DW tanking build.

I'm curious to see how the final KM proc mechanic will work. 5 ppm for each weapon or 5 ppm in total. The latter would still be an improvement for DW tanking but I don't see how it favors DW compared to 2H anymore then.

Tulavan · 01/20/09, 1:33 PM

Originally Posted by Zerath

Deathchill isn't needed and shouldn't be needed in an IIT build due to there is plenty of 5 pt talents so, no requirement on "fillers". It isn't *that* great of a talent, 2m for 1 crit? Meh. Point is better spent elsewhere.

Deathchill on its own is pretty weak, but it has a hidden strength. Did you notice how when your HB crits it crits on one mob maybe, and the rest of the pack get normal damage? It crits individually, per target. But if used with DEathchill - it crits on all targets! I personally use Deathchill only with HB - its a sick amount of AoE threat, and its the only place worth using it IMO. But that only place is worth 4 more talent points for me

And thats once a minute, so almost on every trash pull.

Considering the new KM mechanics of 1 ppm per point spent, I'd think Deathchill is a better investment of 1 point- excludes the randomness, and wont let you waste that guaranteed crit on something that you just have to use when it came up - like IT to renew the Frost Fever

I havent tried the new KM yet, but I will once it goes live, see how it fares. But it seems like it wont be this good, due to the rigid 15sec tanking rotation (DnD->IT->SS->Pest->(Deathchill)->HB->BB->repeat) I use. And with rigid rotation you cant sub HB just cause KM procced. Of course, Im a 2H spec, not a DW, so thats a slightly off-track comment which may or may not apply to DW.

Zerath · 01/20/09, 2:38 PM

I'm more than aware that HB will crit on every mob with Deathchill. But, I still think that point is better used elsewhere. This boils down to a preference point.

The glyph will be in my bag and I can port to change if need be. That's what I meant, sorry for a lack of clarification.

With a 5s cd on HB it may be more efficent to max BA, thanks for pointing that out. I'll let y'all know how I do later tonight.

Torn · 01/22/09, 2:40 AM

Holy Moly!

I was a DW tank before the patch, too. So I have a direct comparison to what it is now. The new KM is incredibly great. From looking at my Omen values I'd say that's a 200-300 TPS boost in 5 man. Reports from Naxx-10 incoming on Sunday when our next raid will take place.

gattagoblin · 01/22/09, 6:19 AM

I tried different speces since patch, but settled to more or less where I started from 25/36/10
I find Veteran of the third war extremely valuable talent, thats why I went so deep in blood, also runetap is quite good, it heals a lot, doesn't have GCD and you control it, with unbreakable armor and blade barrier spell deflection is nice spell mitigation. One downside is that I don't get death runes, so blood is always blood. Maybe I could remove morbidity since I get so many runestrikes, there is no runepower for coils at all, any thoughts, maybe replace it with bloody strikes for a higher dmg from pestilence and blood strike ?

gimmy some thoughts

[note: its an alt so didn't tank in 25 yet, so <10man focus]

Torn · 01/22/09, 9:51 AM

Looks interesting.
I'd drop Epidemic and Morbidity for Blood of the North.

Looking forward to hear your reports.

gattagoblin · 01/22/09, 10:57 AM

uh no way, epidemic is so must for me, leaves me a whole cycle extra not having to reapply diseases :P
with bloody strikes blood strikes now deal fair amount of dmg even with a fast weapon and pestilence deals about 700dmg / target witch is quite nice, so far threat is good and I get quite some survivability and self sustaining skills.
with blood of the north I gain little, bloody strikes boosts BS more and tbh I can live without death runes, hidden CD on HB is annoying, never know when its ready after 2nd cycle (or rime proc) :S

edit : took bloody strikes 28.36.7

Torn · 01/22/09, 11:15 AM

What's your rotation?

gattagoblin · 01/22/09, 1:15 PM

DnD > IT > BS > PS > HB > BS > HB > BS > HS than reapply diseases and continue more or less

DnD is quite good for starters cause it gives a nice flow of starting tps and uses me 1 blood rune, getting me closer to bladed barrier. If not used, than I just go
IT > PS > BS > runetap > HB > should go HB but CD so proly coil or two > HB reapply and repeat
(runetap = no GCD ussage of blood rune for bladed barrier to start)

its still just a giudeline, depends more what I need at the moment, some might be replaced with unbreakable armor

Jeisa · 01/24/09, 8:20 AM

I've been a dual wield tank for nearly a month now...

My gear is pretty decent, and I've tried nearly every spec that has been suggested here and otherwise. In my opinion, Unholy still is amazing for TPS and mitigation -- I don't know why, but it seems to benefit the most from raid buffs as well. I can easily hold 4k+ TPS, and spike 7-8k TPS (in raids). In Heroics, I usually chill in the 4k range.

Auto-attacking yields approximately 1.5k TPS in my current gear. I've definitely seen a TPS improvement with 3.0.8, and when I've stacked more Hit and Expertise.

Anyone have any input for me on how I can make more scientific conclusions though?

I heard that WWS can somehow do TPS reports, but I really have no idea how to use it. Any help would be appreciated.

Torn · 01/25/09, 9:48 AM

This used to work in BC: (it parses WWS reports)
WowWebStats Tps Calculator

Can you provide rotations etc. for your build?

eflow · 01/25/09, 4:55 PM

Just to add some info about dw tank.

I dw since lvl 73 or something, and tested dozens of different builds. Lately, i decided to test razorice, killing machine and some other things. Those things are related to dw frost build.

1st. Razorice, its a great difference. In boss dummies, was a ~150-200 dps gain. In raids with buffs, this meant ~500-600tps increase.

2nd. New killing machine is working great with tanks. Sometimes procs several times in a row, some other times you don't see a proc in 10-15 seconds. But overall, is working good.

Not sure the relevance of those, but this is from the last 25m OS i tanked as dw frost.

Recount - Incoming Melee Damage Report for Eflow
Damage: 220439
Resisted: 21189
Absorbed: 46334
Hit: 64x 28.1%
Miss: 31x 13.6%
Dodge: 58x 25.4%
Parry: 72x 31.6%

The difference between my physical and frost dmg. The main reason why the 5% from razorice worked so well. (there's several shadow and random school dmgs from shields, auras and such that i didnt save)

Recount - Outgoing Physical Damage Report for Eflow
Damage: 105045
Recount - Outgoing Frost Damage Report for Eflow
Damage: 588471

My Dps during the fight.

Recount - Damage Report for Eflow
Total: 854212
DPS: 2978.3
Taken: 0
Time: 276.96s (97%)
Damage Focus: 1.5 (67%)
Avg. DOTs Up: 2.5

How my dmg is spread. (during some part of the fight, one of the elementals was stuck on me, taking some howling blasts)

Recount - Eflow's Hostile Attacks
1. Howling Blast 93 - 327124 (38%)
2. Icy Touch 42 - 110473 (13%)
3. Melee 390 - 102220 (12%)
4. Rune Strike 71 - 95117 (11%)
5. Frost Fever (DoT) 156 - 92769 (11%)
6. Frost Strike 26 - 56538 (7%)
7. Blood Plague (DoT) 71 - 32448 (4%)
8. Pestilence 36 - 13802 (2%)
9. Retribution Aura 61 - 12226 (1%)
10. Blood Strike 13 - 7046 (1%)

Example of how much dmg my skills do.

Recount - Eflow's Hostile Attacks: Howling Blast
1. Hit 56 (60%) (Min: 882 Avg: 2411 Max: 2984)
2. Crit 37 (40%) (Min: 2127 Avg: 5192 Max: 6656)

Recount - Eflow's Hostile Attacks: Icy Touch
1. Crit 25 (60%) (Min: 2720 Avg: 3358 Max: 3704)
2. Hit 17 (40%) (Min: 1129 Avg: 1560 Max: 1745)

TL

R. This is just some data i got from an OS 25m fight. I did around ~5k TPS .. going to 6k and something in crit sequences and several KM procs in a row. I'll try to get a wws of the next 25m raids i tank (i usually only run 10m).

You can see that i dont have a super incredible gear ... only 10man / heroic / badge drops. I believe with 25 man gear, the results would be quite better.

Before people ask, i didnt get icy talons because we have a enc shamy with windfury in 99% of the runs. Frost aura is meh, and Acclimation may be situational but it really helps in some fights (saph, malygos, OS) where you take constant elemental dmg.

secradonm · 01/25/09, 8:23 PM

I was wondering what glyphs I should get for deep frost build?

Also another small question.

Why did they skip Frost aura?