What if I were to keep Icy talons and drop a point from Runic power mastery, we typically don't have the +20% haste buff so it'll be nice to keep.

Firstly you get 20% damage reduction from bone shield (all sources). Other than that it could be a number of things. IBF uptime on hits, AMS/AMZ as well as priests guardian spirit on you etc.

Also this is the Dual Wield thread - noticed you've taken 2h spec so either you have wasted points or this is slightly the wrong topic for you

I'm not sure why so many people think that. It's well accepted that DW DPS builds do comparable or more damage than 2H builds, and similarly, DW tanking builds can do similar or more threat than 2H tanking builds. I dual wield specifically *because* I can produce more threat with a good DW build than with a 2H setup.

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Thinking of running with this on Sunday with my next 25 naxx run. I'll be running with 2x Broken Promise.

Just trying to weigh up whether it worth dropping IIT to get black ice. Leaning towards Black Ice at the moment but we have lack of Enh shammy.

Pure TPS build based on the 0/32/39 DW DPS build.

Forgot to mention the perma ghoul is only a filler and found it to be the most fun filler – ghoul + CE = fun

I wouldn’t be using PS, also I would be spamming IT so an extra 6 seconds on something that probably wouldn’t get close to 12 sec duration is pointless. Lichborne I would get without the IIT also if I max Blade Barrier I miss out on Howling Blast or Bone Shield which I both feel are superior to 2% parry.

Gorgangio:

I think you modeled your spec too closely after DPS specs, forgetting that you will be keeping down D&D as often as possible while tanking, even on single targets. As a result, you'll probably want to take Epidemic. Reaping also loses a lot of value, as all it will let you do is substitute 1 BS for 1 IT every 20 seconds or so. You're probably better off picking up the ~800 AP from Bladed Armor if you're really interested in max threat.

Also you should never take Virulence in a PvE build. It's just flat out one of the worst talents. I covered a lot of these topics in more detail a few pages ago if you're interested.

I have been testing Mimiron today with Blood DW (just had to try it) and it worked out very well.

I was able to keep up good threat values, given the fact that you have to keep Runic Power for cooldowns.
Sure the DD´s could not go all out, but I begin to think, that Dualwield Blood (which simply is my favourite) can definetly keep up in terms of threat production.
It might not be as broken, as I feared, after all.

After reading the latest changes, I would go like this:

47/14/10

I like the Glyph of Disease a lot, since it really fits into Death Rune Mastery combined with the fact, that my main attack Heart Strike only uses one Bloodrune. That will make up for a lot more threat since I have one strike more in my rotation.

Hi,

I've been an unholy tank since a long tiome. But before my equip was good, I used to dual wield just to reach 540 defense.
Now with 3.1 a lot of things are changing.
Since Unholy got nerved pretty badly, I am thinking to either switch back to DW or change over to frost.
Since my DPSers are getting better and better, I think I should work on my threat.

This got me to the following possible spec for DW:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...0&version=9704
tanking must haves:
13/8/5 (Blade barrier, Bladed armor, Scent of blood [for RS fpr threat] / Toughness, Improved Icy Touch / Anticipation)
For Tanking I also wanted to have Frigid Dreadplate (just a personal decision) and Veteran of the Third War.
DW/Thread talents:
Dark Conviction, Nerves of Cold Steel, Necrosis, Blood Caked Blade, Icy Talons
purely optional:
Bloody Strikes (for AoE-Threat), Abomination's Might (raid utility)
Now the lack of points to distribute led me to using Death Strike instead of Obliterate (-> no Annihiliation necessary)

Planned rotation (with glyph of disease and the new 3.1 tanking sigil):
IT PS PE BB DS filler
DS BB BB DS
DS PE BB DS
DS BB BB DS

Another variant of this spec could be:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...0&version=9704
This would use Obliterate instead of Death Strike.

What do you think of this proposals ?

I think with both specs you will be off-tanking trash and thats about it. You need an oh-shit move especially the way bosses are hitting in Ulduar.

Not tested but something like:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...0&version=9704

IT PS SS BS BS RP spam

Or something on the frost side:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...0&version=9704

IT PS HB BS BS FS

HB IT PS PesT HC for AOE

I agree scent of blood is now a must have talent for DW threat building and i would say at least 3/5 Bladed armor but not necessarily all 5 points. So a spec might look like:

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...0&version=9704

I still rate GoG defensively because 6 seconds on IBF is a BIG bonus no matter how you slice it. The important thing to do with dual weild is to not gimp your tanking abilities to favour threat talents too much - this is why no real DW spec has been found as a FotM because until they change strikes to MH + OH damage co-effs or create a dual wield strike (give disease mutilate) then we are forced to either have very poor TPS or very poor survivability

The "Oh Shit" buttons have much longer cooldowns in 3.1.
So they are less mandatory then before.
For exapmle the 5% damage reduction on UA is not worth the points you have to invest in the tree to go down this far.

Other then that, you builds are prefectly valid.
I just would recommend not to use FS, since most of the time the rune power will go into RS.

Does Necrosis provide that much more than Tundra Stalker?
Even at exp soft cap it would seem that a deep frost DW build would still benefit more from TS than Necrosis...but I dont see a direct comparison anywhere and I wouldn't trust my math with this many espressos in my system.