Not certain.. 1ppm I think? It's value may depend on how much parry you have on gear...

Kahorie can simulate RP generation of Scent of Blood too, btw, using avoidance and boss-attack-speed you specify.

Excuse me if this is a 'noob question'. I've done a mild amount of tanking on my dk (toc10 normal / ulduar 10 / ony10/ony25 / naxx10/25 / voa / etc)

I'm sure there's valid reasons for this, but I'm very curious on some of the talents on the 'base' dw tanking build, primarily the choices in the blood tree.

Wouldn't it be preferrable to dump bladed armor and fill out scent for blood and pickup subversion for higher threat from obliterate?

To be specific, I'm talking about something like this versus the normal build.

any thoughts or schooling? :P

I tried searching on any posts in regarding to the above but couldn't really find much relating to subversion in a dw frost build, only being used for some sort of esoteric dw blood build.

thanks!

I have been experiementing with a new class of Unholy DW specs specifically optimized for AE tanking:

13/7/51 DRM/GoD AE Tanking Build

13/6/52 DRM/GoD AE Tanking Build w/ Burst DPS Support

The rotation is based on two alternating 5-sec mini rune sets (15-sec rotation):

BB>BB>PE(>dc)DS>BB(>dc)>DnD(>dc)

The (>dc)s mark where free GCDs occur. Use RP on RS where applicable.

- - -

The same rotation is used for both single-target and AE (i.e. no rotation transitions in AE encounters). Due to DnD timing, rune usage is very evenly spread out, so you are almost always near a Blood rune or a Death rune CD to spread mass EP for raid AE. The build can dual-wield fast +Str tanking weapons effectively, because weapon speed does not matter nearly as much as it does for Frost tanks (only RS plus 1xDS per 15-sec once Blood Plague is up, and the build is not optimized to MT parry-haste-enabled bosses anyway).

The single-target threat generation starts a little slower than most other tanks, so your DPS won't be able to go single-target full blast as early. Once the rotation gets rolling, the single-target threat generation is sufficient for most purposes. The AE threat generation, on the other hand, is extremely high, and the rotation is very good at picking up add spawns. You also have perma-ghoul to sacrifice on-demand for Death Pact emergencies (1-GCD).

Unholy DW Tanking - doable?

While there is plenty of discussion on DW frost tanking, I have seen little discussion of DW Unholy tanking, and would like input.

Due to familiarity, better mitigation of magic damage, and better AoE threat, some may prefer Unholy to Frost or Blood tanking. A DW build offers an interesting extra - while going deep enough into frost for Nerves of Cold Steel, Lichborne is readily available, giving a little extra utility.

Here's a spec I worked out, based on the standard Unholy tanking spec. 3 points are taken from Blood (1 in bladed armor & 2 in 2H weapon specialization), and 1 is taken from the Unholy tree (from wandering plague) in order to fill the requisite frost talents:

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...P,Yp3eO-,10676

Any input on the viability of this spec?

I've also considered the following spec as well for 3.3:

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Given the changes in 3.3 to AoD, it could be nice to have NotD talented, for a 6 min CD. This also allows for a perma-ghoul to have ready for sacrifice, instead of having to time your ghoul's CD. Dropping unholy blight might make sense given the halving of its damage and therefore its threat in 3.3.

This build gives up on the threat generated by SS, putting those points into BCB/NotD. For a DW build, melee makes up the highest portion of your threat, and SS is already weaker than on a 2H build, so the loss isn't as significant. This plays to the strength of a DW build, while building extra utility into the spec.

This spec for 3.3 builds in 3 utility tools that a standard Unholy build doesn't bring - Lichborne, AoD, and easy ghoul sacrifice, while still maintaining the excellent AoE threat, raid buff, and damage mitigation of Unholy. My primary concern is whether this build is too weak on single target threat - any thoughts?

3.3 will ruin Unholy tanking through Icecrown radiance (Bone Armor loses an enormous amount of effectiveness), so it's not really worth talking about. Furthermore, DW tanking as anything but Frost is generally a bad idea, since your biggest threat contributor, Rune Strike, is crippled by the use of two weapons. Bottom line is that if you want to spec Unholy for tanking, you're going to have to do it with a 2hander.

I 100% agree with Darkside. On the flipside, TPS as Dw Frost is quite good now. But DK, and esp. unholy in my experience, doesn't really have a giant leeway to play around with lesser threat.

2x Crusaders Glory is better than 2x Quel'serrar, because you can't count on the proc always being up, even with two of them. Note in 3.3 Quel maybe be better (because with the new runeforge the lack of defense wouldn't be an issue), but then there will be newer better weapons.

What about if, even using two, I can remain defense capped without gemming defense? The set created allows for this, however I am only thinking of using one for increased threat in the main hand.

Def cap is not a problem even w/o the procs, I could DW quel and still be fine. I am trying to get them now, I would be still be over the def cap by 4 or so.

I don't think it has lost any viability but to do it properly you need to have a decent amount of gear. I just made my off-spec DW Frost tank (2h Blood is MS). Unfortunately, I haven't had much of a chance to test it. My plan is to use it on physical heavy fights using Quel-Serrars and the emblem trinket for even more mitigation (and avoidance from defense). Full disclosure, I mostly just think that DW Quel-Serrars looks awesome, so I would try to make it work even if it wasn't as effective.

By its nature, DW should start at about 4% more avoidance than 2h Blood but loses about 5% stamina. I think it allows for more situational flexibility since you can mix and match weapons and runeforges based on the situation. On the other hand, the talents distribution is much more rigid since it requires 6 talents in addition to what is used in 2h frost tanking.

Personally, I use 10/54/7 and plan on trying it out on ToC 25 tonight, I'm especially interested in how the extra defense will work with gormok.

As far as I know, DW tanking is still perfectly viable, my suggestion would be to play around with it a bit on easier raids (normal ToC 10 & 25) and see if you like the style. Usually, the best spec for any class/role is the one where you are most comfortable. Honestly, normal ToC is such a cake walk when you are well geared, you could probably tank it in DPS spec without much difficulty.