well im tanking with 2 slow dps weapons and so far its good enough, i just lose like 1000 hp from the lost of stamina wheni was 2 handed but my threat is a lot better
my spec is 10/54/7

It has been shown on Tankspot that a DW tank with two fast weapons and 31 expertise has the same amount of parries over time as a tank with a slow 2h weapon and the usual 26 expertise. Also, not all bosses parry-haste. Dramatization like "death sentence", taking "twice" the damage and other garbage is just hearsay.

Warriors prefer as fast a weapon as possible to tank, and nobody ever suggested a warrior was inferior to a Blood tank because his 1.5 weapon produced more parry-haste than our 3.6 2h. In the same vain, suggesting DW tanking will somehow magically make you die in an exploding gib of parryhasted death is totally over the top.

Frost tanking has 3% more avoidance and 2% more flat damage reduction. Add to that, Nerubian Carapace offers 1 more defence than Stoneskin Gargoyle, and 2xTanking 1h weapons are a lot superior in avoidance than any 2h could ever be.

Just throwing this out there, but with the new stam/def rune for one handers combined with the -20% dodge in ICC, would it be advisable to just use 2 DPS one handers instead of the usual MH dps OH tank? I'd imagine the reduced Runestrike would be more of a problem for this spec seeing its so important for its threat.

So I put together my dual wield tank spec last night and I'm pleased with the potential. I'm still gemming and making some adjustments so I haven't taken it out for a spin just yet.
Anyway, I'm looking for the slowest 1 handed weapons I can find. Right now I have Razorscale TalonX2, which as far as I can tell by the available options, is respectable if you aren't tanking end game raid content. Last night I ran Ony and got excited when I saw Singed Vis'kag the Bloodletter based on the damage (same attack speed but higher ilevel and top end hit). But, I'm giving up stats and the proc is about as useful as the penis on a priest. Am I correct in assuming that I should stick with my 2 Razorscale Talons at this point?
Also, is the consensus that the minimum Hit/Expertise is 8%/30expertise (Assuming I'm not taking anything in ICC Raid, of course). I know that I can use more, but I am at the point where I would be sacrificing gem slots or enchants to build more when I can use the STA (I do have the 540+ defense).
Thanks!
Also, thanks for the macro suggestion with respect to Runestrike on every attack. REALLY helpful.

How many Expertise does an DW tank need ?

Depends on what weapons you'll be using, usually being a tad bit over the actual recommended expertise cap is prior let's say using agility food or hit food, whatever you might be using.

I've been tanking as DW-Frost since of when they implemented the ToT talent into the frost tree. I've never had any issues whatsoever with threat. Actually I've been maintanking every boss there is, including Anub 25 hc, and now all bosses of Icecrown.

I can't help myself of seeing how so many doubt in dw-frost, how it's not viable and whatnot.

Threat - It's top of the foodchain, there's no way, no WAY whatsoever you can peak 15-18k TPS substained by _yourself_ no tricks/no misdirect on fights where of the bosses actually gives the potential of producing runestrikes in a good flow. I tanked as damn blood through the whole ulduar progression and sure it's "cute" and all with self-healing and vampiric blood but threat's just not reliable enough.

As of with frost you get more avoidance and 2% flat damage reduction - along with having UA with the t9 setbonus (potentially having it glyphed) you will reach Armor cap with or without an armor pot up (depending on gear choises ofc) I can't actually admit what went wrong in peoples mind when saying this cooldown aint good? It is good, and it's almost available, it lasts for 20 seconds. ontop of that you do have 18 seconds of IBF.

Also one thing I've been wondering about is how people moan about wether or wether there's no "actual" tanking weapons with good speed/stats for dw frost?

I've been using 2.60x2 speed wep's since I started. Sure they don't have "defensive" stats, but hey - who tanks with a 2hander with defensive stats? Oh wait.. There aren't any. The only 1handers that has defensive stats are for warrior/paladins. Let's face it? You wouldnt tank as DW-frost without proper speed on your weapons... that wouldnt be smart, come on kiddo.

been using the 12/52/7 build and it's working out fine, using 2x Aledar's Battlestar with split 10str/10hit gems in the yellow socket. hit rating seems good, expertise could use work (but that's just the result of needing better gear), and threat output is fine so far.

My question, though, is has anyone considered dropping GoFS and GoOb for Howling Blast and Icy Touch? I've had some success off tanking and AoE tanking by using howling blast to spread the +20% dmg frost fever. Has anyone else had similar results?

You mistakenly assume Expertise is only of use to avoid missing threat-generating abilities. DW has a much higher hit/sec rate than 2h and there is valid concern that a DW tank is offering a higher parry/sec opportunity to the boss, which results in more parry-hasting (for applicable bosses), which results in more spiky damage intake.

It's been established that DW tanks with two weapons and 31 Expertise will offer the same parry/sec to bosses as a 26 Expertise tank with a slow 2h weapon. So the answer to the previous poster is (1) there is no difference in where the Exp soft-cap is, it's still 26 (meaning you get less value from exp beyond 26 than you do up to then) and (2) you will effectively be equally liable to be parry-hasted as s blood tank at 31. I'd suggest that a good answer is "aim for over 28".

I'd like to also point out that "of" is not the past tense of the verb "to have", and although I haven't tanked with 2x2.6 DPS weapons I'm slightly apprehensive about claims of sustained 18k TPS without ToT/MD.

Pardon me for my lack of verbal knowledge in a foreign language. It falters sometimes. Especially at hours like these.

Surely discussions can be made, and sheets can be broken down to - from a theoretical point of view whether the spike damage from tanking as DW is worth it or not. I'm not going to be biased about DW but from my own perspective DW frost is more exciting. it's insanely good sustained Singletarget threat and even if you'd want to AoE tank with it, Howlingblast along with KM procs/rime procs (thus the amount of RNG taken into account) it still is very viable in comparison to the more solid sustained AoE threat as Unholy and certainly in comparison to Blood.

However back to the concern about expertise, I didn't say what to aim for because it's a matter of gear/gem choices. Ideally you want to be soft-capped without any additional buffs/gems. If you are tanking with 2x(fast) you would be looking for 30 expertise to be having with some appreciations most likely the same parry/haste as a prot warrior or a 2handed dk tank. Going over 30 expertise is fine too, don't get me wrong it will have a similar effect to avoidance - not as efficient but if it's a matter of gear limitations I wouldn't cut down on the expertise at the first place. Although as you're saying expertise lacks potential value per rating beyond soft-cap is true. I've with the interest of being experimental tanked through whole ToTC 25 with the hard-cap of 14.25 and there's no way the other valuable stats is worth the while since the TPS increase is almost unnoticeable.

And for the high peaks of self sustained TPS. Don't get me wrong but it is possible, it happens occasionally, not often but it occurs that you do reach those peaks with the most amount of luck with your KM/Rime procs on a boss that allows the circumstances. I won't take into account that it require some high-end gear stacking to perform around these numbers, but well I think I just did? Seeing it from a casual POV then I most likely would agree it's not possible. Let's say a fight like twins - pending around 25-40k TPS almost as stable as any would get your thoughts around the potential DW frost has with proper itemization.

Happy DW:ng.

Angelwork do you have a hosted log somewhere showing the 25k-40k TPS? I don't mean to cast any aspersions but such high numbers are quite extraordinary and I'd love to see the mechanics behind it.

If you're just seeing spikes on Omen and reporting that as "TPS" well, that's not really a useful number.

We have lower hit points than Paladins and Druids, but higher hit points than warriors.

(Based on class multipliers of stamina and health.)