DW Tanking Builds 3.3 - updated 12/01/10 - Page 33

Amiro · 12/15/09, 4:23 AM

Originally Posted by rubenst6

1) I'm playing with the main recommended spec and it is very nice. I'm VERY fond of the runestrike macro. Genius. Anyway, with all of the mobs in the 5 man ICC heroics, I'm finding it worthwhile to buff my AoE threat. We've gone so long without crowd control that groups really don't do a good job of focus firing. I really miss the DnD options that Morbidity allows. Does anyone have an opinion about dropping 2 points in epidemic to throw into morbidity? I would also drop the glyph of FrostStrike for Disease. I figure that the refresh with the Disease glyph will more than makeup for the loss of disease time from dropping epidemic. Thoughts?

I dropped FrostStrike glyph for HB glyph and it works like a charm. I don't have to reapply DnD mid-fight and it is usually ready for next group.

Originally Posted by rubenst6

3) Hit Points: This question isn't specific to dual wield, but how do DK hit points compare to other classes for tanking? I know that hit points aren't the only stat that matters. Lots of hit points with no mitigation doesn't help anyone. Still, I find I have lower hitpoints than the other tanks around me and my itemization isn't THAT bad.

As long as your healers can keep you alive a little difference doesn't matter

Illu · 12/15/09, 10:28 AM

Yes, use the Hb glyph is again my suggestion. I admit I'm having some trouble even as Frost keeping aggro from AoE melee that opens right away and ignores marks, and certain other tank classes don't. It's just going to be like that till something changes though. Sometimes, you'll need to explain to your group that you need to wait for Dnd, unless you can rely on taunts if they die fast.

That said, I also had a question about Hungering Cold. Does anyone know if it works on Saurfang's Blood beasts? I didn't think to try it last time. I guess the usefulness isn't all that, but I'm always looking for reasons to pick it up.

Pintofbrew · 12/15/09, 11:16 AM

Having agro with DPS monkeys isn't a tanking issue, it's a maturity issue. The fact that tankadins don't have to bother doesn't mean your AoE TPS is too low, rather that theirs is too high.

I don't see why it shouldn't, they're succeptible to Nova. If you're DW Frost tanking, however, what talent are you going to ditch for it?

Illu · 12/15/09, 11:53 AM

Yes, that's the issue, KM or BA is the only choices for me.

I took one out of BA just to test it (was solo farming the Pit at the same time so handy there) but I really really wish they baked nerves into ToT, the points requirements are just brutal for DW frost.

Jaberwoky · 12/15/09, 1:20 PM

Since with the new Dungeon finding system I am Tanking a whole lot of AoE intensive heroic, I am considering this spec

Talents and Glyphs
My question is how howling blast's damage is calculated and whether it would be better to take those points out of morbidity and shove them back into Bladed armor.

I'd like to keep hungering cold, since I find it very useful with the trash waves in H Halls of Reflections.

rubenst6 · 12/15/09, 1:48 PM

Maybe I don't understand the Glyph of Howling Blast as well as I should. I don't see how it is going to make up for the aggro I'd like to pick up with shortening my DnD cooldown.
1) I always use Pestilence to spread my diseases such that, for all intents and purposes, my Frost Fever is already always up.
2) If I use the Glyph of Howling Blast, I will free up one part of my rotation where I don't have to actually apply frost fever. That's freeing up one frost/death rune. I still have to Plague Strike and Pestilence.
3) Where does the extra AoE threat come from? The application of Frost Fever doesn't include the initial, hit that Icy Touch provides, right? I am already keeping Icy Touch up on all mobs.
4) The last part, and this to me is the biggest... Why don't I just use Glyph of Disease, instead? After applying my diseases, I can continue to keep them up on everyone with just using pestilence. This frees up TWO runes in an AoE rotation and 2 global cooldowns.
What am I missing?
EDIT: Are people not bothering with plague strike/blood plague at all? Is that what I'm missing? I'm coming from a Blood DPS build so that feels like anathema. I have a hard time imagining that the extra runes and cooldowns makeup for the loss of damage done w/ Obliterate, Blood Strike, Blood Plague, and PLague Strike, particularly when I'm hoping to up my AoE threat.

Cromedan · 12/15/09, 2:09 PM

What am I missing here?

I believe the point of HB glyph is the initial time to get aggro from packs of mobs

To use Pestilence you need first cast 2 skills Ice touch and Plague Strike than spead it
that leads to 3 CD before starting to build some AoE aggro

With HB glyph you just need to press it and start the AoE aggro

Both not considering D&D for AoE

rubenst6 · 12/15/09, 2:13 PM

Thanks for the explanation, Crome.
That strikes me as a poor compromise. I'm not sure the instant aggro is worth it. Since AoE threat is my main concern, I'd use DnD to start anyway (even more aggro).

hatchetman240 · 12/15/09, 2:39 PM

Yes, the point for the HB glyph is you skip the entire Plague strike deal all together (except on bosses if you want). This allows you two BBs and two oblits (which may refresh your HB timer) per rotation. You wont need D&D all that often, and it does cost you an Oblit and a BB anyway, so you are better off without using it for the most part unless you are in a specific situation where you lay the D&D in a space you aren't in order to get those mobs to come to you.

Also factor in the strikes you are using and notice that only obliterate gains any advantage from having the second disease applied. It certainly makes tanking a lot more mindless not having to track diseases. If it works you may see a lot of DPS DKs converting to part time tanking since they can pretty much mindlessly drum HB-OB-BB-FS over and over and make it work nearly perfectly.

Illu · 12/15/09, 3:25 PM

The instant aggro is everything that matters in heroic though. Sustained threat is near-useless since the trash dies so fast. When i pull more than 2-3 mobs, what I do is DnD - HB - Blood boil the first rotation, this gives a ton more threat fast than without the Hb glyph. You can also skip the DnD as needed.

It's less useful in raids I think, but I like to keep glyph stacks if I can so I can swap if I really need.

Jaberwoky · 12/15/09, 5:13 PM

@Illu
Precisely my thoughts and my rotation.

It sounds like from what I'm hearing though that using a second application of DnD is something that people rarely if ever do, and that points in Morbidity would be better used in Bladed armor for sustained DPS (both AoE and Single target).

I have been tanking with a single disease rotation and other than a some eager beaver Melee DPSers that don't follow marks I haven't had any problems. Is single disease DK tanking a taboo?

Airinn · 12/15/09, 7:05 PM

The only place in heroics where I've run into the issue with Death and Decay being too long a cooldown is Heroic Halls of Stone and the Bronzebeard "event".

Sometimes the packs come spread out and it's quite possible for Howling Blast to only hit two out of three.

I think there might be an equal risk in Heroic Halls of Reflection, but I've only done it on Heroic as DPS.
(I did tank it on normal to complete the quest line and it wasn't a problem at all.)

Amiro · 12/16/09, 4:55 AM

After switching from blood to DW-frost I have problem with not enough RP generation. At least the problem occurs less in ICC, as bosses hit more often and dodge is reduced, so I end up with less RS overall and more procs of Scent of Blood. But in older content and heroics I often have not enough RP even for RS, not to mention FS. While in blood I nearly always was full RP...

I'm not currently see any problems with aggro, but I'm affraid I may not be able to use IBF or AMS when I need it, and interrupting Jaraxxus may be even harder than before (he should definitely invest in some hit rating

)

Do you also have this problem? If so how do you deal with it?

pindle · 12/16/09, 5:35 AM

Originally Posted by Airinn

The only place in heroics where I've run into the issue with Death and Decay being too long a cooldown is Heroic Halls of Stone and the Bronzebeard "event".

Sometimes the packs come spread out and it's quite possible for Howling Blast to only hit two out of three.

I think there might be an equal risk in Heroic Halls of Reflection, but I've only done it on Heroic as DPS.
(I did tank it on normal to complete the quest line and it wasn't a problem at all.)

Just put up DnD in the middle of the room, and if for some reason you manage to lose aggro OR it's still on CD, just stand in the middle and grip one mob to you, wait for the rest to come and do a BS to keep threat 2 more seconds, then HB when the other mobs get close.
HB is really good for snap threat and excels in wave-like situations, I really miss it as blood tank atm

catmicrowaver · 12/16/09, 9:54 AM

With HB glyph, you will usually get an extra tick of FF, maybe 2, when compared to spreading diseases normally, and on all of the mobs.

The main thing I like about the glyph, however, is that the mobs are going to be at -20% attack speed before they even get to you.