Then the tooltip needs more clarification. Either way, my question still remains, would the TPS generated from a near constant (hopefully) string of Rune Strikes out-threat any other RP dump?

RS is essential now and even more so in the upcoming patch, it hits and crits harder than anything but HB and at 20 RP its better to use over DC and FS when runes are on CD and a lot of the time RS is up immediately after the previous one so maybe DW can get more/faster consecutive RS's than 2H?

The fact about RS is simple: it's the best RP dump we have BUT: in DW we won't have enough RP to spam it.

I haven't read about any RP/sec statistics while tanking (link me to it if you have, maybe I missed it), but, with a cycle like this (thanks to Barden):

sec	Ability	RP after using ability	sec	Ability	RP after using ability
0	PS	10	0	IT	25
1.5	IT	35	1,5	PS	35
3	HB	55	3	Pestilence	45
4.5	BS	65	4,5	HB	65
6	BS	75	6	BS	75
7.5	FS	35	7,5	FS	35
9-11.5sec	pause/Rime proc		9-11,5sec	pause/Rime proc
11,5	HB	55	11,5 HB	55
13	IT	80	13	IT	80
14,5	FS	40	14,5	FS	40
16	IT	65	16	IT	65
17,5	HB	85	17,5	HB	85
19	FS	45	19	FS	45
20,5	FS	5	20,5	FS	5

we get that after 6 seconds we generated 75 rp, with a fast tanking 1h like [Last Laugh], a good avoidance equip (>60%) and a lucky avoidance streak, we swinged 4 time (the first rune-strikeable swing is at 1.5, because the boss is swinging us melee) which is 80 RP (4x20rp) which is MUCH better than 1 FS (or 2, after the patch) but, the question is:

DW tanking's weapon are: LOW/FAST or FAST/FAST?

Will we prefer to make 4 rune strikes (which is 40% KM proc) or to make 2 hard hitting RS and get a 20% KM proc?
Are 4 runestrikes (which is 4 dodge/parry perfectly timed in 6 seconds) better than 2 less-randomly RS?

These discussion about RP generation are nullified by this which is: "You dodge/parry? I give you a free runestrike or 1/2 FS" "Oh yay, thanks mate"

Yup, tooltip will be changed in the upcoming patch, source

Well, you have the right conclusion, but I think the real answer is something a bit more subtle, namely: your autoattack damage as DW scales significantly better with almost every stat than it does with a 2H weapon. You scale better with hit, with expertise, with attack power, and with crit. Haste and ArPen are pretty neutral, but every other stat does significantly more for DW than it does for a 2Her.

Now, this is mitigated by the fact that instant attacks greatly favor 2H, both for their higher base damage and slower speed. Hence, I suspect the intent for keeping 2H DKs balanced is to have them do enough damage from instant attacks to make up the lack of white damage. Whether it will work is of course hard to say - presumably Blizzard understands this effect and is going to try their best.

So: it's true that some effects - Rune Strike, for instance - are significantly less good for DW than they are for 2H. On the other hand, it's also true that you'll do more white damage, and some effects - BCB and Killing Machine, notably - are significantly better as DW. So, it's certainly the case that DW tanking is going to function very *differently* from 2H tanking, that doesn't inherently make it *worse*. The challenge is certainly going to be to get enough hit, expertise, and crit to make the advantages of DW spec flourish in tanking gear. It may not be possible... but it's certainly worth looking into to see if it is or not.

On that note: it seems to me that agility is potentially going to be a very interesting stat for DW tanks. While it's not a great mitigation stat, it's decent, and while it's not the best threat stat, it's decent there as well - particularly with Killing Machine. So it seems entirely plausible to me that we're going to find, when all the analysis is done, that agility will actually be a very important stat for DK tanks. Which is unfortunate, as agility is not a stat commonly found on tanking gear.

Well, let me clarify. Rune Strike costs the same amount of runic power whether you use a 1H or a 2H; but it does significantly less damage with a 1H weapon. Hence, whether it's worth using or not, it's decidedly less efficient and converting runic power to damage, meaning that if you have a fixed amount of runic power, it's going to result in less damage and threat with a 1H weapon than with a 2H weapon. So Rune Strike is *less* good for a DW spec. That doesn't mean it isn't still good, of course - but you do lose some damage due to doing it one handed versus 2 handed.

Regarding BCB - it may be, or it may not. It's certainly too early to say for sure. It's certainly much (much!) stronger for DW than it is for 2H, which, again, doesn't mean it's going to be worth using, but it certainly warrants consideration. Again: I'm not saying DW tanking is or isn't going to work, or that any particular talent is or isn't necessary; I'm just pointing out the factors that work in it's favor - then we have to do the theorycraft to figure out what actually works best.

I suspect tanking in mail is a very bad idea; I suspect where Agi is going to come in is less the plate pieces and more the rings/amulets/cloaks/etc. If you can make Def cap without using standard tanking pieces in all slots, using some pieces that would normally be characterized as hunter/shaman/rogue/whatever rings/amulets/etc. might prove to be valid way of continuing to boost avoidance while also getting good threat.

Like I mentioned earlier, if you are DW tanking you should have more than enough DEF providing you have atleast [Seal of the Pantheon] which allows you to have atleast 1 or 2 slots free for DPS gear (rings usually). I agree AGI is a good stat for DK tanks as it gives crit and dodge.

If your build includes KM then its essential to have some crit in your gear otherwise those 5pts are wasted. If you are going for a frost build then going into BCB will waste too many filler points to reach it not to mention for a very marginal threat increase and increased chance of getting parried.

I recommend this Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft if you decide to put points into KM, I have been using it for awhile now and I have no AOE threat issues as the increased crit from dark conviction really helps with KM procs. After the first DnD rotation you just use it like the 44/27 build but you just prioritize RS for RP dumps.

Dare I ask why Morbidity and Epidemic rather than Tundra Stalker? I wouldn't imagine that you'd use D+D and Death Coil enough to justify taking those over 10% Frost Damage and 5 Expertise. D+D will be helpful for pickups, but I rather imagine once you get into a sustained AoE tanking duration you'd be using IT/Pest/HB/HB rotations rather than D+D.

Well, the challenge of Rime is that it breaks the DW cycle. Which is not to say that it isn't ultimately worth taking anyway; however, consider the problem. A usual deep-frost cycle runs IT/Ob/Ob/BS/(HB) - the Rime cycle for Dual Wield would be IT/(HB)/HB/HB/BS. That is, the RIme proc, while it costs no runes, delays the triggering of all runes by 1 GCD. Now, the grace period on rune activation would cover this... but then you don't have the grace period to absorb the Death/Blood rune switching. So it may well turn out that Rime is a good thing, but there are definitely issues with it.

Also note that you're not using Obliterate, and IT is a relatively small portion of your damage, so those parts of the buff don't do a lot for you either. So Rime is of much more questionable utility than for a traditional frost build.

Well thats a personal gameplay issue I wager. With rime it makes more sense to work off a priority system than a rigid rotation.

Although you are spot on with the GCD there. I expect that will have some tweaks coming its way in the future. And IT is really not that insignificant down there in frost Although it remains to be seen how well it transfers to tanking. The recent DPS parse's in the DWing thread suggest for practical purposes its rather a large amount for deep frosties.

Well, the parses I've seen have it as high as 15%, but a 15% boost to 15% of your damage is... not really that much damage. Particularly since, with Icy Touch preceding Howling Blast in the cycle, it's the move that will most often be benefiting from Killing Machine procs, and, as such, it will have a quite high crit rate even without Rime. Overall, we're looking at a 2% damage increase, maybe less. And a 2% damage increase for 3 talent points isn't *nothing*, but it's certainly less essential than it is for 2H Frost builds, particularly with the Rune/GCD issues.

Edit: Actually, it occurs to me that there's a simple solution to GCD issue; simply do the cycle as HB/HB/IT/BS/HB)->FS. This is of course vastly inferior the first cycle of the fight, an issue that may need to be addressed; but thereafter, you still have Frost Fever up from the preceding cycle so the Howling Blasts do full damage; the Killing Machine procs go more often to a Howling Blast, which is a higher damage move; and you can safely use the Rime procs without lengthening your cycle. The only real problems are 1) if you're not hit capped, you can run into problems with the Icy Touch being resisted, leaving you with 2 blood runes and no Frost Fever up, and 2) The aforementioned issue of ramping up. But in terms of a sustained threat rotation - at least for a hit-capped DK - it seems very likely to be superior.

I have tried the spec I linked without morbidity and at 15s more on CD it really slows down trash pulls, I put points in epidemic to allow some flexibility between pestilence refreshes.

I have 23 expertise from my gear so instead of tundra stalker I put points into dark conviction as it increases KM proc rate by an substantial amount which to me is worth more than 10% frost damage.

As for rime, HB is still on 6s CD so its not so useful until the CD is removed.