Why are you waiting for a KM'd HB? As of right now, our DPS waits 2-5 seconds (depending on if I say "don't dps yet"), that's plenty of time for us to get IT off (while running to the group) -> Pest -> HB, Blood Tap, HB. It's going to be trickier for the first few days of speccing Frost for most people, I think. As of right now, DnD -> IT-PS-Pest-UB is like industrial super glue that takes no account of positioning.

This is likely while I'll be super caffeinated for the first few raids, so our ranged doesn't get teabagged by a mob. Unless it's our spriest. I'll let that one slide. *laughs*

In regards to GoG... people who claim it isn't attractive to tanks seem to be overlooking the fact that adds 6 seconds to IBF. That's actually pretty huge, especially when you consider UA and trinkets. With the 4 piece T7 bonus you have 21 seconds of IBF uptime, then 20 seconds from UA, then 10-20 seconds from trinkets. Depending on trinket choice you can have indefinite mitigation/avoidance buffs with 0 downtime.

IBF, at 21 seconds UA, after 20 seconds trinket A, after 20 seconds IBF, after 20 seconds UA, after 20 seconds trinket B, repeat.

The 3% miss from frost is also rather large.

And when things get real bad, lich. In 25 man gear having 100% avoidance for 20 seconds is rather easy to come by and can make the difference between killing someone with most of your raid dead or wiping.


Deep frost has always been an attractive MT spec. However for OT the lack of AE threat has been an issue until the removal of the HB CD. As nice as bone shield is - the main benefit of unholy has always been the improved AE threat. In terms of total mitigation and avoidance, frost has always been better.

These days DnD is a signal to spam 'insert AOE' to top dps, relying on spreading diseases is risky because sometimes they won't spread to some mobs that like to run back and cast when death grip is on CD.

It's a matter of preference I guess, morbidity just makes screw ups less likely.

I've been toying around on the ptr with a dual wield tanking build that looks like This.

I was wondering if people where still thinking of going dual wield to tank with the changes to killing machine really benefiting 2 hand tanking now.

I read on these forums that most people like obliterate for single mob threat, but I choose to use HB instead since I wanted to spend those 3 points in 1 hand spec. And I wont be hitting as hard with oblits with a 1hander.

Anyone have any suggestions or any experience with this type of build and/or 1 hand tanking?

Dark conviction will become useless for a KM build since its based on chance on hit and not crit, so yes, deathchill will be worth picking up.

Putting the point in DC would have nothing to do with KM. I am wondering which one does greater tps/dps. Is a 2minute crit better than one percent crit overall? I will test it next week but I was wonderring if anyone had already done the math.

The point from Deathchill should go in to Lichborne, honestly. Otherwise than that, that's almost identical to my first build I'll be trying sans BA will be 4/5 and Virulence will be 3/3 (but, I plan on dropping any gems with Expertise and go +hit/+stam) in those sockets - so, we'll see what that turns out to be.

The point of Deathchill isn't "one crit" as it can be used for Howling Blast, which in a multi-target situation amounts to a great many crits. Every two minutes, Howling Blast can crit on every target within range.

My first post is in regards to main tanking situations so the multi-target aspect of deathchill is irrelevent.

As for putting the point in lichborne; no need for another "oh shit" button, as DW we need more threat and more dps. I think that the one percent crit is probably better in the long run than a 2 min cooldown crit. If 1% crit means you are going to crit 1/100 hits(not just melee) and you are going to have more than 100 hits every 2 minutes, then 1% in DC would be greater than deathchill. I tend to shy away from "situational" talents and deathchill kind of looks like it is not as viable as DC.

edit*100+ hits every 2 minutes sounds right but I don't know if it is accurate. I apologize if it isn't.

For DW (the subject of this thread), it's probably not far off. Let's take a "best case" type scenario: 2.0 speed MH and 1.0 speed OH (hasted, obviously). In that 2 minutes, you'll have 60 MH attacks, 120 OH attacks. We'll approximate to 6 "non-white" attacks per rotation (assume two FS/DCs). Assuming 10 seconds per rotation (allowing for a bit of lag/human error - and making the napkin math easy), gives us another 72 attacks per two minutes.

Now, I'd be inclined to discount the OH attacks, since they'll be pretty measly crits, but even doing that leaves us around 132 attacks per 2 minutes. If you truly don't care about the Deathchill/HB AoE effect, then the 1% crit from Dark Conviction probably *is* better.

Now, for 2H, this comparison would be completely different... but that's for a different thread. ;-)

Deathchill is nice for snap aggro on demand in pulls and such too.