Two-Handed builds are divided into the three types: Blood, Frost, and Unholy. It makes sense to do the same to the DW builds as frost builds are very different from the unholy ones. This summary is designed with upcoming changes in mind. I recommend you familiarize yourself with the Think Tank article about Death Knight DPS. Though some of the data is out of date, it is a good foundation of knowledge overall.

Just remember you will see different results when testing on a test dummy versus actual raid bosses so don't be too discouraged just because you're doing lower amounts of damage on the dummy.

There are two builds that do good DPS. Each one is slightly different in their execution but their goal is to generate as much runic power as possible to maximize Death Coil.

-----0/17/54-----

A proven contender with the 2H builds, you use Improved Unholy Presence to fire abilities like crazy. Featuring Ghoul Frenzy, it's the classic Death Coil build generating more runic power than any other viable build currently.

Glyphs: Dark Death, Icy Touch, Ghoul

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...0&version=9806

This build scales better with Expertise and Critical Rating. Haste isn't bad either.

Priority System: Spam Plague Strike, Icy Touch, Blood Strike, Ghoul Frenzy and fire Death Coil every time runic power gets above 40. Use Death Runes for Icy Touch.

This build works well right now but it scales less than other builds. This means that eventually as gear gets better, you'll outgrow this spec. If you like action and spamming buttons, this will make you happy.

-----0/13/58-----

This build is the classic Scourge Strike build of the DW bunch. This one uses Blood Presence to fire hard hitting attacks to go with the usual spells. This build needs Haste so that it's rotations don't get too long. Just avoid Armor Penetration which scales poorly due to so many attacks that ignore armor. As a nice side effect, Plague Strike hits harder in this build than any other DW build. This build has a very high scaling Death Coil as well.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...5&version=9806

This build scales better with Haste and Expertise. Critical Rating isn't bad either.

Priority System: Diseases(BP>FF)>SS>BS>UB>DC.

Frequently Asked Questions

1) Does Icy Talons stack with Improved Icy Talons or Windfury Totem?

Answer: No. In a raid, you should expect this buff so any points in Icy Talons would be a DPS loss.

2) When is the best time to use Gargoyle?

Answer: Gargoyle actually gets it's haste and other stats from its owner. The best time to use gargoyle is actually during a bloodlust when as many of your procs/cooldowns are available. Just keep in mind that the Gargoyle is fragile and will die quickly to any AoE.

3) Is Glyph of Disease worth using?

Answer: It's useful for AOE but that's it. It comes out to be a dps loss that while it's refreshing your diseases, it deals no damage of it's own. It's especially bad if you screw up and diseases drop as your whole raid will lose the Ebon Plaguebringer buff until you can fix your mistake. It's not recommended.

4) What determines partial resists?

Answer: Originally Posted by Zyrm
As an additional note, what is *actually* responsible for partial resists on bosses is weapon skill. For example, if you tried to scourge strike a level 80 mob with 1 weapon skill, aside from parries/dodges, the strikes you DID land would be mitigated in half (which is actually the most a SS can resist, it will always hit for at least half damage)... until you're weapon skill was at or near max. Since Raid bosses count as your level +3, and there is currently no way to raise weapon skill beside the level max, you will always see partial resists in raids.

Another side note, when you see a strike that says, say "Your SS hits X for 4000 (200 resisted)", you wouldn't have originally done 4200 damage, but actually quite a bit more. The (X resisted) is actually before modifiers/buffs/talents/crits, so in reality, if half a strike was resisted, you might actually see something like "Your SS hits for 2.5k (1.9k resisted)". Just some food for thought. I can't tell you how many time's I've seen 5500(900 resisted) when my SS crits that don't resist always break 8k.

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An alternative build is 1/18/52 which uses Obliterate. This build requires a lot of gearing to make it work. The advantage of this build is being able to use all of the Armor Penetration gear in Ulduar. You ideally want to stack as much Armor Penetration as you can without sacrificing too much in other stats.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...5&version=9806

Priority System: Diseases(BP>FF) > OB > BS > UB > DC.

Pre-Heroic armor with good weapons

Head: [Conqueror's Darkruned Helmet] -- [Bold Dragon's Eye] + [Arcanum of Torment]
Neck: [Might of the Leviathan]
Shoulders: [Conqueror's Darkruned Shoulderplates] -- [Bold Dragon's Eye] + [Greater Inscription of the Axe]
Cloak: [Drape of the Faceless General] -- [Bold Scarlet Ruby] + [Fierce Monarch Topaz] + Enchant Cloak - Greater Speed - Spell - World of Warcraft
Chest: [Conqueror's Darkruned Battleplate] -- [Bold Stormjewel] + [Bold Scarlet Ruby] + Enchant Chest - Powerful Stats - Spell - World of Warcraft
Arms: [Bitter Cold Armguards] -- [Fierce Monarch Topaz] + [Bold Scarlet Ruby] + Enchant Bracers - Greater Assault - Spell - World of Warcraft
Hands: [Gauntlets of the Wretched] -- [Bold Scarlet Ruby] + Enchant Gloves - Precision - Spell - World of Warcraft
Waist: [Girdle of Embers] -- [Bold Scarlet Ruby]
Legs: [Conqueror's Darkruned Legplates] -- [Bold Scarlet Ruby] + [Bold Dragon's Eye] + [Icescale Leg Armor]
Feet: [Melancholy Sabatons] -- Enchant Boots - Tuskarr's Vitality - Spell - World of Warcraft
Ring1: [Bladebearer's Signet]
Ring2: [Strength of the Automaton]
Trinket1: [Blood of the Old God]
Trinket2: [Darkmoon Card: Greatness]
Weapon1: [Caress of Insanity] (note: 232 version is better. These are old stats) -- [Bold Scarlet Ruby]
Weapon2: [Remorse]

I thought 0/32/39 was the traditional unholy DW spec?

32/39 and 44/27 play almost identically, though this will change slightly after the patch with the Frost Strike glyph and the untying of KM from weapon speed. 20/51 is a completely different ballgame. Whether you call 32/39 unholy or frost, it goes in the 'traditional' Howling Blast based thread fine, while 20/51 doesn't really get discussed there and probably deserves its own thread.

I'm glad to see that someone's at least trying to discuss this build. My numbers show it passing 2H Unholy by a decent margin (though I doubt my glyphed Scourge Strike rotation modeling is quite accurate). I don't consider it for myself simply because I dislike using D&D for AoE due both to its clunky rune cost and difficulty using the targeting reticule while lagged to hell during raids. 32/39 and 44/27 do edge it out a bit, but the fact is that Ebon Plaguebringer combined with Pestilence provides a massive raid DPS boost for trash and any guild should be running a deep unholy DK for this purpose unless stuck on an encounter for which it is irrelevant.

Sure, there are tons of 17/0/54s out there, but 0/20/51 is, or at least will be with the IT glyph change, equal if not superior.

I've ran 0 20 51 the last raid we did, the DPS is just ludacris, you shouldn't be breaking 6k dps just randomly this early in the game.

From what I've understood, the intended KM mechanic is not working as it should - it actually didn't change at all and GC says it seems to not be working as they actually intended it to.

Wait and see what changes they do, if they do any

What kind of spell rotation should I be looking at on this build?

I want to DW on my DK and just re-specd to this build. will it be viable for lvling also or just raids?

Isnt this just a bit OTT? I mean, SEVEN different specc threads for one single class? Why dont we open up threads for

DW- The slow/fast thread!

I think the DW thread is more than able to contain more than one specc?

6K DPS on what?

What boss? How many adds? What was the duration of the fight? Did you use army of the dead? etc.

These are the kind of claims that belong in the WoW forums. Misspelling of 'ludicrous' and all (damn rappers). You need to provide specifics. 6k on aoe trash doesn't mean anything.

IMO this is a bit uneccesary. There isn't, for example, a viable blood DW spec as of yet. The fact that unholy is the top right now is a matter of gear versus scaling. My point is, with Dual Wield having it specific to a tree doesn't make sense, as which tree will be best for it will likely change in the near future. Especially with changes up in the air, and Blizzard mentioning that if DW ever got significantly ahead of 2H they would make changes to correct it.

This discussion belongs in the DW thread, before things get out of hand and people make a thread for every single point variation build.

WWS Loading...
Theres the WWS but its useless since it doesnt count ghouls, on average I sit at 5k and it goes up to 6k+ depending on random elements.

DW just does too much damage too easily, 32/39 is probably better because Ren pulls out some insane numbers, I cant even come close to his. Seeing as my main source of damage is spamming IT while keeping blood plague up and twiddling my thumbs, I'd say its a bit too much yes.

Xyrm, they did mention it yes, but if/when they will actually fix it, I guess that remains to be seen.
Small KM tweak with a Necrosis buff, sigil/glyph changes - it's not a real nerf, more of an adjustment to how the damage will be dealt

They aren't killing DW, the problem theyre having right now is how can they fix the scaling of 2h without inflating DW

Short of splitting talents to do different things when dual wielding versus using a two hander, I can't see a solution to 2h dps (short of buffing the strikes, which is a bad road to go down for pvp for obvious reasons) that doesn't inflate dw dps equally if not substantially more.

KM on a PPM won't kill the spec. It will just put the disparity between DW and 2h to rest. If anything, 2h will proc KM a bit more frequently as a result. Assuming it works like most ppms and occurs off of instant attacks too, deep frost 2h may literally start drowning in KC procs. We're talking 28.333% chance to proc KC on any given strike or auto attack, which emulates a crit chance of greater than 56.666% with current KC (because current doesn't proc on autos). Of course, I haven't done the PTR yet, so my word isn't 100% reliable. Any confirmation if PTR KM procs on specials?

I'm still abit confused about this build's rotation. Getting up blood plague is a must so you will need 1 PS, but what would you spend then other unholy rune on? Another PS? Is this really a viable use of a rune for maxing damage?

The only rotation I can think of with the given spec is
PS>PS>IT>IT>BS>BS>rp dump
PS>PS>IT>IT>IT>IT>rp dump

Also, using 6 GCDs every rotation means that there's very limited timr for rp dump so you will probably overcap rp alot unless you push your rotation all the time. Perhaps it would make more sense to not use the last U rune and spend that GCD on rp dump? Using the new IT glyph will definately give you alot of RP and even more if you spec for dirge.

Any thoughts on this?

eh, my 2c is that you should definitely use the second ps-- if only for desecration, providing your specced it.

But by all means, that second ps is barely enough damage to get worked up over. The only problem would be 2 or more seconds of your rotation would have auto attacks that are proccing BCB with 1 less disease.

Your second unholy rune should rot most of the time.

This spec does not hold well to a rotation. If you have to use one, try something like:

Activate death rune with blood tap or replacing an IT with a BS in rotation one
IT PS BS IT DC IT DC
IT PS BS DC IT DC IT DC

Replace any DC with PS if runic power is not available. The RP generation and use works out to a net zero if the IT Glyph is used; since this is a pretty tight 13-gcd rotation, the glyph is probably a net increase in DPS (as 1/4 a death coil is greater than 1/10 an icy touch, if and only if you have the GCD free to use it - even given ~50% extra crit on said IT). However, using a proper priority system, I'm told that the glyph falls short by those with more experience with the build than I.

Just at a guess the priority system probably looks something like:
IT (no FF) > PS (no BP/Des) > IT (KM) > DC > BS (with non-death rune) > PS (with non-death rune) > IT(no KM)

Agreed, but you need another entry in the priority list for IT (no KM, more than one F/D rune active) and one for DC (RP>74), like so:
IT (no FF) > PS (no BP/Des) > IT (KM) > DC (RP>74) > IT (no KM, more than one F/D rune active) > DC > BS (with non-death rune) > PS (with non-death rune) > IT(no KM)

DC moves up the list when you'll lose some of the RP from the IT above it, and IT(no KM) moves up the list when using the rune won't keep you from consuming a KM if it procs right after.

I think you should have 3/3 in Annhilitation (2% crit isn't huge) otherwise put 2 in Icy talons for a 12% speed buff.

Depends on rotation...

With 3/3 annhilation single target: IT PS OB OB IT PS OB OB with UB and DC to use up RP. But then this gets away from your IT idea with Killing machine....

But if that's ok, I would even suggest 4/5 Icy talons plus 3/3 annhilitation and use this rotation:

IT PS OB OB... your autoattacks will be 16% faster and you'll obliterate for more than IT crits plus PS.

If you don't intend to ever use OB, then put the 2 points into Icy Talons to maximize your auto attacks and IT. I have a feeling that maximizing ITs to maximize your auto attack damage is better dps. With the KM bug, you could probably put 4/5 in icy talons and 3/5 in KM for max dps.

The spec I suggested assumes that an enhancement shaman is present. As Icy Talons and Windfury Totem do not stack, putting the two points in Annihilation was the best use of the remaining two points. No matter where you put them, they are essentially wasted as no good option is available. You can't go 3/3 Annihilation because you want Killing Machine to be the full five points.

The nerfed Killing Machine no longer procs on off hand white hits and has a PPM of 1 per point for a max of 5. This appears to be affected by haste though.

I cannot explain why my Blood Plague ticks deal so much damage. It ticked for 284 with 2009 AP. It has a base of 28.9 with 110 added for attack power. I have Outbreak and Crypt Fever. I also have the Glyph of Plague Strike. I was using Blood Presence. Crypt Fever alone would be 138.9 x 1.3 = 180.57 x 1.15(Blood Presence) = 207.65. Adding Outbreak would be 207.65 x 1.3 = 269.95 which still isn't enough to explain the high damage.

My wandering plague gets a bonus on top of that. Wandering Plague is supposed to be 66% with 2 points which would lead you to believe it would be 284 x 0.66 which is 187.44. However, for a 283 blood plague hit, I got 239 wandering plague damage instead.

I also noticed Necrosis doing more damage than I'd expect as well. A 1089 hit produced a 140 damage necrosis.

Anyone with better knowledge of mechanics explain that?

Talents like Wandering Plague and Necrosis are affected by your multipliers after their base damage is calculated. Specifically: For a 1089 hit, base Necrosis damage would be 109. Then factor in Blood Presence, Bone Armor, Ebon Plaguebringer for a factor of 1.15*1.13*1.02 = 1.325. So your Necrosis would hit for 109*1.325 = 144. The fact that you only hit for 140 indicates that Bone Armor was not up.

Points that are often missed: Diseases are increased by Crypt Fever AND Ebon Plaguebringer; Ebon Plaguebringer affects ALL non-physical damage; Rage of Rivendare affects ONLY spells and abilities.

Your necrosis numbers make sense if you were in Blood presence - 1089 * 0.1 * 1.13 * 1.15 = 141.5 (pre 3.0.8). Off by 1 can be explained by intermediate rounding error. I guess we must be getting double-coverage by RoR and Blood presence still.

Without wandering plague, BP should hit for (28.9 + 2009 * 0.055 * 1.25) * 1.3 * 1.15 = 249.7. But if we let RoR count, we get 274.7 per tick. Were you in a raid? the extra 3% damage from Imp Ret Aura would put you just about where you observed. I'm fairly confident that neither Outbreak nor PS glyph affects BPlague damage..

With wandering plague, I get fairly close if I let the WP damage be affected by Blood presence and by RoR, just like necrosis.

I am really surprised more people are not looking at this build. The only major talents left that benefit duel-wielding are Nerves of Cold Steel, Blood Caked Blade, and Necrosis. This build maximizes both Blood Caked Blade and Necrosis. Three diseases is maximum for Blood Caked Blade. Necrosis gets the 13% from Ebon Plaguebringer.

This type of build can operate using mostly spells since it can Blood Boil and not lose nearly as much DPS as other builds. Given enough haste, this build operates exceptionally as the GCD reductions allow you to squeeze more moves in the same amount of time. Since the nerfed Killing Machine will scale with haste, it makes it an even better stat. Since your pets also scale with haste, it's a good thing to pick up.

The concern I have about the other DW builds floating around is that they are better when you switch to a 2-hander. Without Killing Machine being a factor, can a 44/27 with DW beat a 2-handed version? I seriously doubt it if they are also using Frost Strike. If Killing Machine wasn't nerfed, definitely. With the nerf, not a chance. Since Frost has a better build than that for 2-handers already, it's dead in the water.

The real question is: can this build beat the two-handed Unholy build? If it cannot, then it becomes probable that DW will not be viable. Every possible talent that can make duel-wielding better is in this build and maximized.

Same. Using Doc's spreadsheet - it looks like 10/10/51 or 0/20/51 DW stands to be the highest dps build next patch. I'm not sure if many people have noticed that so I thought i'd point it out. It surprised me when I was playing around with it.

I've always been an advocate of this build, and I'm glad we now have a thread for it. However I have an issue with OP's "Cookiecutter" spec, is it not better to cap out NoTD then to get 2/3 as opposed to 1/3 of NoTD?

the spec I usually use with this is
WorldofWarcraft.com -> Info -> Classes -> Death Knight -> Talent Calculator

and I find myself dealing at the very least, equal dps to the hordes of 17-0-54 dk's out there. And in most cases outstripping them by a considerable margin.

As far as the debate with OB goes, I agree, you are in the wrong thread if you think you should use OB. I wouldn't mind it if blizzard would include a UB multi-rune attack, which would clean up quite alot of our rotations, but this isn't a wishlist thread.

As far as rotations go, I've been debating on the use of a priority system with blood pres, or a set rotation with unholy pres.

the blood priority system seems to do better, however a perfect UH rotation might be able to compete.

I'll begin the debate.

With Unholy Pres, i would use:

PS IT PS IT BS BS <90 RP, 6 GCD's> UB <30 RP, 7 GCD's>

then

PS IT <DC> PS IT <DC> IT <DC> IT <20 RP leftover, 9 gcd's, doable without much latency and UH pres>

To do the above, you need a perfect rotation and to be completely spellhit/expertise capped, because a single miss throws off the whole rotation, however if you can do it, the DPS gain should be substantial, the question is, can it overcome the damage loss from switching to UP from BP

Somone else can do the math, as I don't have my calculator, compass, graph paper, highlighter, protractor and other supplies with me.