Orlgin

Spec was designed for after the patch. Right now, ghouls have no avoidance so the ability to repop ghouls is more important. After the patch, you get Glyph of the Ghoul which raises it's Stamina (iirc 40%) and 40% avoidance for one point of NotD. This boost in survivability is the reason you go 2 points in Wandering Plague and only 1 in NotD. Simply put, your ghoul will die less so you don't need it as much.

Unholy Presence is a DPS loss. The problem isn't having enough attacks, it's the Quality of the attacks. Using the best DPS attacks available and using Blood Presence does more damage. It's been tested repeatably and it just holds true. It's really hard to build a good Unholy Presence setup because Blood Presence is just amazing.

For example:

A 1000 damage melee hit in Unholy Presence deals 1020 damage due to Bone Shield. This produces a base Necrosis damage of 102. That 102 damage gets 2% more damage from Bone Shield and 13% from Ebon Plaguebringer so Necrosis deals 117 damage. Total damage: 1137

A 1000 damage melee hit in Blood Presence deals 1.02*1.15*1000 which is 1173 damage. This produces a base Necrosis damage of 117.3. That 117.3 damage gets 2% more damage from Bone Shield, 13% from Ebon Plaguebringer, and 15% from Blood Presence so Necrosis deals 155 damage. Total damage: 1328

This means that instead of 15% more damage as you might think, it's actually 16.7% per melee hit. This is due to Necrosis double dipping on the bonuses (hit gets bonus, necrosis gets bonus).

I used to think Unholy Presence was great. I have learned how hard it is to build a successful build using it. In order for Unholy Presence builds to work, all the moves used have to have the same quality as the moves used in Blood Presence. Some speculate that a frost two-handed build can do it using the Frost Strike glyph. It has yet to be done successfully.

Like an unchecked cancer, hate corrodes the personality and eats away its vital unity. Hate destroys a man's sense of values and his objectivity. It causes him to describe the beautiful as ugly and the ugly as beautiful, and to confuse the true with the false and the false with the true.
Martin Luther King Jr.

 

revenant1987

Hey guys, got a question, with the new patch, 3.0.8 its avaible 2 fast weapons like 1,50-1,80 in both hands or maybe going on one 2,60 and off hand 1,50?

And... the hit recommended for 20/51 Build its? im on 370 hit rating now.

I think with the new killing machine talent, this spec its not the same :S. Maybe its time to go on Unholy/blood?

Thanks for all

 

Orlgin

WorldofWarcraft.com -> Info -> Classes -> Death Knight -> Talent Calculator

This is what I am recommending now. Turns out 5/5 Desecration is better DPS than the nerfed Killing Machine. The extra 2 points max out Wandering Plague and Night of the Dead respectively.

Now that Elemental Shamans have been buffed, you should be seeing more of them in your raids. Wrath of Air totem provides 5% spell haste. Gearwise, you want at least 9% Haste. The more latency you have, the more haste you will need. At 14% spell haste, you gain the ability to use 7 move rotations if you use mostly spells.

You need the Icy Touch glyph. It has no damage penalty now so it's very useful now. Begin with a Blood Tap so you begin the fight with one Death Rune. The rotation is pretty simple and easy to memorize.

PS -> IT -> IT -> IT -> BB -> DC -> DC
PS -> IT -> IT -> BB -> IT -> DC -> DC

It uses exactly the amount of runic power it produces. Blood Boil scales much better in this type of build than any other build and thanks to Reaping, it produces Death Runes for Icy Touch. If your latency is good, you have around 11% base haste and Wrath of Air, you may substitute Blood Strikes for the Blood Boils as they hit harder. Just remember that Blood Strike gets no benefit from spell haste so it takes a lot more haste to put those in.

Thanks to all the haste on top end Death Knight gear, these numbers are quite achievable.

Your AOE is very impressive with this build so don't go overboard or you'll pass the tank. The spreadsheet seems to overvalue desecration so keep that in mind as well. On moving fights, you will lose the desecrated ground but with all the ranged attacks, you should have no trouble hitting with anything that isn't plague strike.

@ Revenant1987 - If you are in a raid, you need 289 Hit Rating to spell hit cap with virulence maxxed. Alliance that know that they will be raiding with a Draenei need only 263 hit rating. Hit Rating past the spell hit cap offers very poor returns and is not recommended. If you use a build without virulence, you need 368 hit rating. I recommend you read the PVE DPS compendium in the Think tank section as it answers a lot of questions and is helpful reading.

Like an unchecked cancer, hate corrodes the personality and eats away its vital unity. Hate destroys a man's sense of values and his objectivity. It causes him to describe the beautiful as ugly and the ugly as beautiful, and to confuse the true with the false and the false with the true.
Martin Luther King Jr.

 

grayrest

Desecration is better than KM based on what? If KM is 6 PPM with the haste you're stacking, that's roughly 1 guaranteed crit per rotation. If your base IT crit rate is 30% then KM gives you an expected ((1+.3+.3)/3=.53) 53% crit rate, which is a ((1.53-1.3/1.3 = .177) 17% damage increase for your IT. If IT is 25% (rough guess from the 0/20/51 parses I've seen) of your damage, then that works out to be 4.4% of your total dps, which is more or less what the talent should be. Most estimates I've seen on descration is in the 3.3-3.5% range but even if you assume a perfect 5.0% on desecration, KM is pretty close with napkin math.

As for the elemental shaman comment, WoA is baseline and the elemental tree provides no talents to enhance it. If you have more than 2 shaman in your raid, you should have been getting it since the buff consolidation. Elemental only uniquely provides ToW, which provides SP (useless to a DK) and crit debuff that's shared with muti rogues and most paladins. It's actually more likely you'll have had WoA even if you only have one shaman since the buff is class unique while the melee haste buff is shared.

 

Djinn1

Origin I don't see how your build benefits from dual wielding unless necrosis and BCB alone produce more proc-based damage than a 2h would. I thought the whole point of DW was to increase proc hits, via killing machine.

Does anyone have numbers on 20/51 post patch that compare dps to 17/0/54 or 32/39 ?

 

kurokaze

I'd think going for Bladed Armor would be a better idea than dumping more points in Unholy. I've also settled upon the high haste Blood Boil idea, but my experiment with 10/10/51 had pretty bad results and I found there just wasn't as much oomph to the build without KM.

Even with massive haste (~15%), I haven't been running into much in the way of free GCDs - I often find that my Blood Plague comes near to timing out, and that's with Epidemic. Desecration would mean using PS more often which lowers my ability DPS, in addition to all its well-known limitations.

I've yet to try the build out in any kind of raiding though, as the servers are not cooperating.

Djinn1: The build does not particularly benefit from dual wielding per se. Killing Machine is now locked at 5PPM (plus haste) for any weapon setup as of the last test realm build (I did see one claim that this is changed again, but not with any mention of testing or backup) so we just come down to the baseline, untalented comparison between dual wield and two hand: two handers hit harder with strikes, and dual wield gains more white damage contribution from hit and attack power. As such, most (strike-heavy) builds are optimal with a two-hander, while spell-based builds like this one and 31/38+2 end up better with dual wield. That said, you'd probably do better with this build and, say, Betrayer of Humanity, than you would with two Fang of Truths.

 

Orlgin

As it turns out, the math is fuzzier than one would expect. Killing Machine is only useful if these conditions are met:

a) If Killing Machine procs, the spell it affects would not have crit
b) If a Killing Machine proc isn't already in place

As it turns out, Killing Machine has a nasty habit of overwriting itself. It's not as bad in a build like this with a lot of Icy Touchs to burn them off but it's a problem. It wasn't as big a deal when procs were flowing like water. Now that they are precious few, an overwrite is a definite problem. If you sport similar speed weapons, it gets worse. Especially if they are slow. Two 2.6 speed weapons have a 21.66% chance, for example, of overwriting a main hand killing machine proc almost immediately.

You are also spending 7 talent points to get there since the points 14 and 15 are pretty useless.

The point in Wandering Plague is definitely good. Night of the Dead is circumstantial, and 5 points in Desecration which are almost identical in DPS to the Killing Machine.

When calculating Desecration's bonus, don't forget the talents benefit twice from them. For example, Necrosis.

1000 main hand hit becomes 1050 with Desecration. That 1050 hit gets 210 * 1.05 which is 220 which is a total of 1270. Without Desecration, you get 1000 hit with 200 Necrosis damage for a total of 1200. That's actually a 5.83% increase in damage.

The things it benefits most are those things that duel-wield brings to the table. More white damage, more necrosis damage, and more Blood Caked Blade damage.

Like an unchecked cancer, hate corrodes the personality and eats away its vital unity. Hate destroys a man's sense of values and his objectivity. It causes him to describe the beautiful as ugly and the ugly as beautiful, and to confuse the true with the false and the false with the true.
Martin Luther King Jr.

 

Djinn1

For those of us that can't afford Greatness, I was wondering about the ranking of trinkets. I have Bandit's insignia and Loatheb's Shadow, could buy Mirror of Truth. And Fury of five flights is out there as a future possibility. How do we rank those for PvE, 1,2,3,4 ?

edit: Feel free to list the top 6 or 7, for reference's sake. There's also that damage on spell tick one that apparently ticks on our diseases, maybe that's on the list too? Curious to see these rankings thanks.

 

kurokaze

When you used KM, did you use a priority system to maximize used procs, or a rotation that spread out the ITs? Or did you use the rotation you posted for the KM-less build that mashes them together? It's definitely a talent that takes some attention to get the most out of. Using a priority system I gained about 30% or so crit to Icy Touch, which is around 30% of my damage, which works out roughly to 9%. Desecration is at best around 6%, and that's not counting the extra GCD waste from Plague Striking more and certainly not counting any movement-based or graphic-based issues that may arise. Unlike Desecration, Wandering Plague is quite good and I'd like to max it, but the points are just better spent elsewhere. Night of the Dead should be maxed anyhow.

The only place I'm unsure about with this build is the top of the Unholy tree: Outbreak, Epidemic, and Virulence. Outbreak seems terrible on paper, but replacing Blood Strike with Blood Boil just feels much better. The smoothness it adds to rotations doesn't show up on paper very well. Epidemic is similar; I hate having to suffer through a full GCD of Plague Strike when the rest of my moves are on like a 1.3sec GCD. My instinct and playing around with various conditions tells me that Outbreak is probably worth it and Epidemic is probably not, but I can't really back that up with numbers.

 

Orlgin

The rotation for the KM less build was designed to maximize disease damage. Putting the Icy Touch as close as possible together was to try and get the maximum number of Frost Fever ticks since disease damage is so high with this type of build. Assuming 100ms latency and 14% spell haste

0.0 Plague Strike
1.6 Icy Touch
2.99 Icy Touch (restarting frost fever)
3.0 Blood Plague Tick
4.38 Icy Touch (restarting frost fever)
5.77 Blood Boil
6.0 Blood Plague tick
7.16 Death Coil
7.38 Frost Fever tick
8.55 Death Coil
9.0 Blood Plague tick
10.0 Plague Strike (restarting Blood Plague)
10.38 Frost Fever tick
11.6 Icy Touch (restarting frost fever)
12.99 Icy Touch (restarting Frost fever)
13.0 Blood Plague tick
14.38 Blood Boil
15.77 Icy Touch (restarting Frost Fever)
16.0 Blood Plague tick
17.16 Death Coil
18.55 Death Coil
18.77 Frost Fever tick
19.0 Blood Plague tick

Number of Blood Plague ticks: 6
Number of Frost Fever ticks: 3

That's the max amount of Frost Fever ticks I could manage. If you delay the Icy Touch at 15.77 to 16.0 sec, it would be better (you get 4) but that's not realistic given human reflexes and would push Plague Strike back slightly to do so. Each rune is used as soon as it becomes available so you can mash the button to minimize reaction time as much as possible.

Someone pointed out to me that I'm actually comparing 3 points in Outbreak, 3 points in Wandering Plague, and 1 point in Night of the Dead to 2 points of Annihilation and 5 points in Killing Machine as there is a full desecration build for 20/51 already.

People are advocating 10/10/51 builds now.

WorldofWarcraft.com -> Info -> Classes -> Death Knight -> Talent Calculator

Kurokaze thinks this type of build is better than going deeper in Unholy. He may be right, Getting correct values for Outbreak, Wandering Plague, Killing Machine, and Bladed Armor can tell us which one is right.

Like an unchecked cancer, hate corrodes the personality and eats away its vital unity. Hate destroys a man's sense of values and his objectivity. It causes him to describe the beautiful as ugly and the ugly as beautiful, and to confuse the true with the false and the false with the true.
Martin Luther King Jr.

 

aznG

I've been using a 0/20/51 build with a rotation of...

PS IT IT BS BS UB DC
PS IT IT IT IT DC

Last week in Naxx-25 I got 5.5k dps [first] without AOTD and fighting for the 3rd disease with another unholy dk. I believe deep unholy and variants in frost and blood is the new DW build. Seeing 8.1K dps on Thaddius [I know the fight is not a good measure] made me open my eyes on this build, I barely beat the 2 Rogues in my guild for first.

A couple of questions regarding a deep unholy Dw spec...

1. Is my rotation optimal in squeezing all the dps I can out of this spec or is there a better one? [I dont use bloodboil due to 0/3 in Outbreak, and I am using Blood Strike Glyph for the 20% extra damage since there is no good 3rd major glyph]

2. Does anyone have any stat weights for the 3.0.8 patch? I believe new values need to be determined due to changes in KM and Necrosis change which may increase the values of Expertise, Hit and Haste a bit. [I want to see which pieces of gear is best in slot through lootrank]

 

Orlgin

I don't have stat weights for the new patch. I can tell you what you want in order:

1) Spell Hit capped.
2) Strength
3) Haste
4) Critical Rating
5) Expertise till cap

Expertise is only used for white attacks and Plague Strike in my build. It's obviously more valuable in yours. I use Glyph of Plague Strike instead of Blood Strike because the goal is to use Blood Boil. If someone manages to get enough haste to use Blood Strike again, obviously use that Glyph instead.

Fast/Fast or Slow/Fast for your build depending on how the final KM numbers stack up. People are reporting that slow/fast seems to be generating more procs but that may be RNM. Slow weapon reduces BCB damage but increases all strike damage.

As for your rotation, unless you are packing a lot of haste, the first line is over 10 seconds. This will mean more runic dumps and less Icy Touchs in your final total than someone using a 6 move rotation. Assume 100 ms latency

0.0 Plague Strike
1.6 Icy Touch
3.2 Icy Touch
4.8 Blood Strike
6.4 Blood Strike
8.0 Unholy Blight
9.6 Death Coil
11.2 Plague Strike
12.8 Icy Touch
14.4 Icy Touch
16.0 Icy Touch
17.6 Icy Touch
19.4 Death Coil
21.0 Plague Strike

As you can see, without haste, your rotation is 21 seconds. If you have enough haste to drop that to 20, then I'd say that to maximize your Killing Machine, you should spread out the Icy Touchs. Putting them together is more disease damage but less KM damage.

Been very short on time so hope that helps.

Like an unchecked cancer, hate corrodes the personality and eats away its vital unity. Hate destroys a man's sense of values and his objectivity. It causes him to describe the beautiful as ugly and the ugly as beautiful, and to confuse the true with the false and the false with the true.
Martin Luther King Jr.

 

Orothar

A short reminder about KM procs for Dual wielding in 3.0.8:

KM only procs of your Main Hand weapon!

It really doesnt matter whether u use a fast or slow OH, it doesnt proc KM. One sidenote: It will proc OH if you have no weapon equipped in your OH. Unarmed is considered MH for the game apparently. still the dps loss in white dmg is far greater then the gain in KM procs.

 

Oxylos

Edit: I apologize for the beating a dead horse thing but...

See this is the normal rotation, and I dont understand why people do this instead of Unholy presence.
If this is your Blood rotation, you do 2 Plagues, 6 Icys, 2 Coils, 2 Bloods, and 1 Blight.
If you went Unholy Presence your rotation becomes
0.0 Plague Strike (15)
1.1 Icy Touch (35)
2.2 Blood Strike (45)
3.3 Unholy Blight (5)
4.4 Plague Strike (20)
5.5 Icy Touch (40)
6.6 Blood Strike (70)
7.7 Death Coil (30)
10.0 Plague Strike (45)
11.1 Icy Touch (65)
12.2 Icy Touch (85)
13.3 Death Coil (45)
14.4 Plague Strike (55)
15.5 Icy Touch (75)
16.6 Icy Touch (95)
17.7 Death Coil (55)
18.8 Death Coil (15)
20.0...

So if you assume that white damage stays the same between unholy and blood (blood perhaps favors necrosis, unholy may favor KM?) the comparison becomes

2 Plagues, 6 Icys, 2 Coils, 2 Bloods, and 1 Blight
vs.
4 Plagues, 6 Icys, 4 Coils, 2 Bloods, and 1 Blight.

or

(Unholy) 2 Plagues and 2 Coils vs. (Blood) 0.3 Plagues, 0.9 Touches, 0.3 Bloods, and 0.15 Blights.
Now just looking at a random wws of mine (my gear isn't the highest level but its what i have)
My plagues averaged 478 (unglyphed), bloods 1005 (unglyphed), coils 2498, touches 2835, and blight 4000, all in Unholy.

1.7(478) + 2(2498) vs. 0.9(2835) + 0.3(1005) + 0.15(4000)
=
812.6 + 4996 vs. 2551 + 302 + 600
5808.6 vs. 3453.

In addition, being unholy gives you grace on misses/dodges/parries/movement/whatever when your rotation doesn't go perfectly. Possibly even more relevant grace if your latency is >100ms
And this doesn't take into account the fact that the blood number is a 21s rotation vs. the unholy 20s rotation.

Whats the catch?

Big number syndrome? Lack of experience with unholy rotations when people try it in the field? I know when I switch between the two unholy comes ahead hands down both on dummies and in the field.

 

kurokaze

Well, for one thing, my GCD in Blood Presence with Wrath of Air is 1.18 seconds, not 1.5 seconds. Unholy Presence wastes much of the haste you pick up on gear, which is valuable due to its contribution to KM procs and pet damage even if it isn't helping your GCD.

Let's go through a chunk of a proper priority system, assuming KM never procs and that you have enough haste to have a 1.4 second GCD (1.5 with latency). Start off with 10 RP from Horn of Winter or whatnot, as it makes things much smoother and is generally good practice when starting a fight.

Blood Presence	RP	Time
Plague Strike	20	0.0
Icy Touch	40	1.6
Blood Boil	50	3.1
Blood Boil	60	4.6
Unholy Blight	20	6.1
Icy Touch	40	7.6
Death Coil	0	9.1
Plague Strike	10	10.6
Icy Touch	30	12.2
Icy Touch	50	13.7
Death Coil	10	15.2
Icy Touch	30	16.7
Icy Touch	50	18.2
Death Coil	10	19.7

As you can see, it uses exactly as much RP as it generates in a 21 second span, which would easily be 20 with a reasonable amount of haste / lower latency. Therefore all you gain from Unholy Presence is two extra Plague Strikes, a very minimal increase, and one extra Death Coil every 40 seconds from the RP they generate. By your numbers, 2062 damage versus 3453, a clear win for Blood.

Now, the more interesting case that you failed to point out except obliquely is that points can be spent in Dirge to increase the worth of those additional Plague Strikes. These points come at the cost of two other talent points elsewhere - most likely from Outbreak, as one of Blood Boil's advantages (faster GCD) is negated by Unholy Presence. However, you neglect its most important advantage - it never misses. Blood rune to death rune conversion is ridiculously minimal damage per GCD no matter how you slice it (directly, anyway) so wasting two GCDs on it because you got dodged is pretty bad. And stacking Expertise would be, frankly, stupid. However, Outbreak may not even be necessary here - Blood Boil or Blood Strike is going to do minimal damage no matter what you do. Losing two points in Outbreak looks like about a 500 damage loss over the course of 20 seconds. (Or 700 if you Plague Strike four times.)

Quick check: Let's say BS gets dodged 5% of the time, because you have a bit of expertise from RoR. Our rotation does, say, 2000 DPS (the rest coming from pets and autoattack). That means a 1.6 second GCD+latency from a dodged BS loses us 3200 damage. At 5% that's an average of 160 damage lost per BS. The extra 0.1 sec GCD is a 200 damage loss per BS in blood presence only. BB with 3/3 outbreak hits for about 150 less than BS, and loses about 100 more per lost point in outbreak, so that it's worth using BB if you have at least 1 point in outbreak. In Unholy Presence BS only loses an average of 110 damage and is always the better choice.

So if we switch to 1/3 Outbreak (placing the points in Dirge) we lose 700 damage in Blood Presence and 400 in Unholy Presence. We then generate 20 additional RP per 20 seconds, giving us half a death coil or about 1000 damage. So UP clearly benefits from Dirge over Outbreak to the tune of about 600 damage. However, that 600 added to the previous 2062 does not bring it up to equal Blood's 3453. To be fair, you used Blood Strike for blood - make that more like 3150.

Going back to your final numbers, the flaw is that your quoted rotation for BP was missing a Death Coil (due to being absolutely hasteless), which by your numbers brings BP up to 6325, again the clear winner.

In order to bring the BP rotation down to 20 seconds, though, note that you need about 13% haste. This isn't as difficult as it seems if you get Wrath of Air Totem. Or you could just have lower latency.

 

dr_AllCOM3

I've implemented BB in my sheet and BS is more than 50% better.

DocsDK UI
Simulator

 

Orlgin

It's agreed that Blood Boil is only usable when haste levels are at a certain level. A Death Coil + Blood Boil exceeds Blood Strike and that's why it's used. The only problem with Blood Strike is it's speed: haste doesn't help it at all. So the goal, at first, is to get where Blood Boil is a DPS gain rather than a loss (9-10% haste). Then the next goal is to get enough haste to put the Blood Strike back in the rotation (11-13% haste). All haste amounts assuming Wrath of Air is present in your raid.

Having an Outbreak enhanced Blood Boil is handy for multiple mob occasions. Being able to Blood Tap -> Blood Boil and have the Death Rune available for the next rotation is pretty good.

Main problem with Blood Boil is it's terrible scaling. 0.04 is terrible if you consider that Icy Touch is 0.1 and Death Coil is 0.15. On the brighter side, with this spec, it gets a 45%, 10%, and a 13% modifier even if you are soloing which is handy for AoE farming. It combines beautifully with Blood Tap for a quick burst of damage that ends in a Death Rune.

Like an unchecked cancer, hate corrodes the personality and eats away its vital unity. Hate destroys a man's sense of values and his objectivity. It causes him to describe the beautiful as ugly and the ugly as beautiful, and to confuse the true with the false and the false with the true.
Martin Luther King Jr.

 

kurokaze

Blood Boil is better than Blood Strike when all of the following are true:

- Using Blood Strike over Blood Boil delays your rotation. This is true until about 16% haste including WoA and 100ms latency. I run with about 200ms so I keep fudging it.
- Your Blood Boil hits for not much less than your Blood Strike (fast mainhand and 3/3 Outbreak).
- Your expertise is low enough such that Blood Strike gets dodged reasonably often. This should be true for most actual gearsets, but may not be true for optimal spreadsheet-testing gear or gear not completely designed for this spec.

The third is the big thing and neither of you seem to have noticed it. Blood Boil should never miss. Blood Strike does unless you've got ridiculously good or poorly chosen gear. Using a proper priority system and liberal use of Blood Tap, there should be virtually no rotational downtime, so the following napkin math is valid:

Estimate 2000 DPS done by direct button-pushing abilities overall (my 10-man WMO was 1831, so this should be a lowish estimate for 25-man). 1.3 sec spell GCD and 1.5 sec melee GCD.

Since there is virtually no rotational downtime, it's pretty much valid to say that each Blood Strike carries with it a 0.2 sec delay in your rotational DPS, or a 400 damage loss, and each dodged Blood Strike carries a 1.5 sec delay, or a 3000 damage loss.

With my gear and including crits, level-based resistance, and armor reduction, Blood Strike hits for 337.28 (call it 350) more. This means that as long as the zero rotational downtime assumption remains true, Blood Boil will be better than Blood Strike, dodges or no dodges. But let's see how dodges affect things:

Dodge rate	BB damage	Adjusted BS damage
0%	800	750
1%	800	720
2%	800	690
3%	800	660
4%	800	630
5%	800	600

So why does your spreadsheet (and mine) disagree? Because they use fixed rotations where zero rotational downtime is nigh impossible. Fixed rotations are bad play in practice. This is why I abandoned my spreadsheet: it's simply not capable of estimating a proper priority system. Cut out the -400 damage to Blood Strike from rotational delay and obviously it's going to look better by a good amount. But in the end, it's not about squeezing a rotation into 20 seconds, or maximizing your rune or RP usage. Those are means to an end. It's about doing your highest damage-per-GCD moves as often as possible, and slicing 0.2 secs off your death rune conversion is yet another means to that end.

 

Banneddk

due to the new patch and the killing machine mechanic change, would it be better to use 1.6/1.6 speed weps or 2.6/1.6 speed weps

 

dr_AllCOM3

My sheet uses fixed rotations, but with a dynamic length. So haste and misses are factored in.

DocsDK UI
Simulator

 

kurokaze

The fixed rotation case for either Blood Strike or Blood Boil in my gear is 20 seconds, thus any spreadsheet with fixed rotations, with or without dynamic length extensions and accurate miss simulation, is going to ignore any GCD haste effects. The priority system case cannot be accurately divided into similar time-chunks or modeled on such a spreadsheet, and does not ignore GCD haste effects.

Banneddk: Weapon speed is close to irrelevant. You gain some trivial amount of damage on strikes and lose a similarly trivial amount on BCB with a slower mainhand. It's very close to even. For the offhand, faster will be better than slower from the increased BCB damage, but again, the amount is trivial.


Edit: The question remains, however, whether Blood Boil's advantages are worth the points in Outbreak. The best alternative is probably 3 in Desecration. Roughly, with 12 second diseases, 3 Desecration will be 60% uptime. Call it 30% due to movement. Total damage increase around 1.65% (including a rough estimate of Necrosis/Razorfrost double-dipping). So my above chart, for my case (4% dodge), shows about 17 DPS lost using BS over BB. You lose another ~15 DPS from lessened Plague Strike damage. So Outbreak is worth it if 32 DPS is more than 1.65% of your DPS, which is not true at DPS levels over 2000. So, the final conclusion is that Outbreak, and the Blood Boil theory, is overall suboptimal. However, it may be optimal for cases in which Desecration is undesired. The math on whether Dirge is a worthy replacement for Outbreak is rather complicated and I don't want to go into it again.

 

dunsparrow

I think you guys are all over-compensating for latency. Blizzard already did this in the way rune cooldowns work. Its only necessary to compensate for latency in your RP dumps.

 

scorge

of course they can fix it easily just add another rune carving for 2h, this will negate teh scaling problem.

 

Orlgin

I have updated the opening poster and added more data to it. It should answer a lot of the questions commonly asked in the Duel Wielding thread. If you see any mistakes or have anything you want added to the opening poster, just let me know and I'll add it in.

Like an unchecked cancer, hate corrodes the personality and eats away its vital unity. Hate destroys a man's sense of values and his objectivity. It causes him to describe the beautiful as ugly and the ugly as beautiful, and to confuse the true with the false and the false with the true.
Martin Luther King Jr.

 

bubdwubd

10/10/51

You're right it doesn't have as much oomph in it, by oomph I mean the crits and burst damage at first isn't as high, but over time to me this seems to be more efficient. It is very simple rotation making it very easy to stay on track for those of you who can't remember what to use and when for this there's only 6 abilities you will really use not including horn and bone shield or trinkets and what not. for me it's PS-IT-BS-BS-IT-blood tap-IT-PS-summon gargoyle then I use empower runes I think is the name, the one that resets everything, I pop AOTD sometimes I switch presence to unholy and pop a speed potion it really depends on the effort I want to put in. If I do switch the first thing I'll do after AOTD is pop blood presence, then coming back it would be PS-ITx4 then rinse and repeat.

For glyphs and gear I use Pestilence, Ghoul, and PS. I don't really like the IT glyph. I have around 1150 strength, 3500ap, 4% haste, 350 hit rating, 20/20 expertise. 16% spell crit and 27% melee crit. So since my hit is high I only have 1 point in virulence, I also changed the spec around a little to fit my stats key is you should use some things based off the stats you have the one example is higher hit rating then you don't need virulence. The spec that I am using can be found at this link. WorldofWarcraft.com -> Info -> Classes -> Death Knight -> Talent Calculator

For numbers I did 4k+ on Heroic 1 drake Sarth we had a really bad raid setup and took us around 5 tries every try I was over 4k+ and I had just specced into it only knowing a little about its rotation. On 10 man Naxx i did 4k dps on patchwerk my all around damage was around 3k. I'm doing 25 man naxx tonight so I'll see what the numbers will be and I'm assuming it should be above 5k. If I had the best gear, which I am far from, and the best raid setup I know for a fact it would push 6k+. Also I am going off of recount so I'm pretty sure my AOTD dps is not being recorded which would add around 300-600dps to that 4k really all depending on the overall time of the fight.