* Reaping: Now procs on Blood Strike and Pestilence instead of Blood Strike and Blood Boil.
This is a nerf to this spec unless you have enough haste to use Blood Strike in your rotations. There is a nerf that isn't on the Death Knight list that affects all spell casters: Scorch and Winter's Chill got nerfed to 5% critical. 5% less critical on all spells cast in a raid is going to affect this spec more than most due to it's reliance on spells.
Even with one point in Outbreak, due to the massive buff in Plague Strike damage, it will still do more damage than it does for 3.09.
New Changes: Massive nerfs. Impurity nerfed to 20%. Improved Icy Touch nerfed by 15%. Black Ice got nerfed to 10% Frost but gained 10% shadow. Base damage of Icy Touch got nerfed. Wham! Massive nerfs.
We are down to 15% IIT, 10% Black Ice, 20% Impurity, 13% Ebon Plaguebringer, 10% Rage of Rivendare, 5% Desecration, 2% Bone Shield, and 10% for Razorice.
Math crunching time found some interesting results. Black Ice change to 10 Frost/10 Shadow wasn't a nerf. It changes where the damage goes but it's a slight buff. The impurity loss isn't as bad as I thought. However, the value of Killing Machine has dropped enough that looking at alternatives is a good idea.
The idea of using a 10/10/51 and adding Death N Decay was good. Established threat numbers were still below most tanks and it deals quite a bit of damage. Since we typically have an Unholy rune that floats non-stop anyway, Death N Decay basically becomes a Frost/Blood ability with a 15 second cooldown.
The haste buff is promising since Haste scales much better for this build. Taking Strength and Haste on every item possible is a must to make this work. Your ghoul will hit like a truck being fully raid buffed with exceptional amounts of Haste and Strength. Not to mention having a ton of haste for a one minute gargoyle is a good thing. Your white damage scaling is much better than a two-hander and the talents that use white damage (BcB and Necrosis) get better as you get more of it. As you get more haste, your Hit value will change (going up in value) so taking additional hit over the cap is less of a DPS loss.
Last edited by Orlgin : 03/27/09 at 7:39 AM.
Like an unchecked cancer, hate corrodes the personality and eats away its vital unity. Hate destroys a man's sense of values and his objectivity. It causes him to describe the beautiful as ugly and the ugly as beautiful, and to confuse the true with the false and the false with the true.
Martin Luther King Jr.
Orlgin is there is any update on the different DPS DW Specs to try on PTR for 3.1? You have a link available for this 10/10/51 and what rotation, glyphs, and weapon speeds to test this out with?
Also for your current 3.09 build 0/20/51 what is the rotation you recommend using for this build? When reading this thread i see some suggestions from others but I did not see any from you.
I constantly update the opening poster for this thread. All of that information is currently there. As for a rotation, it's a work in progress. It's been a challenge to set up the rotation so that the runes are in alignment every 15 seconds for the Death N Decay.
Scourge Strike has been a blessing in that regard. SS-> BB can turn into DnD if you use the two second rule. For those unfamiliar, if a rotation takes longer than 10 second but less than 12 seconds, runes refresh as though it were ten seconds.
Example: 0.0 DnD -> 10.0 SS -> 11.6 BB -> 20.0 DnD is possible using the same set of runes.
The trick is to get the timing down. You ideally want a Scourge Strike 10 seconds exactly from the time you need to DnD followed immediately by a Blood Strike or Blood Boil.
It may seem strange to see Scourge Strike in a DW build but it has it's purpose. The number of strikes every 10 seconds should be two or less which makes it optimal for duel-wielding.
I am currently looking to see if a 3/13/55 would be better than 10/10/51. I have a ton of things of do and not enough time as usual. Just check the opening poster for updates from time to time.
@ Serif: You were reading current content part. Scroll down the opening poster to the 3.1 update. The spec linked already shows the switch to the DnD Glyph.
Last edited by Orlgin : 03/30/09 at 10:18 PM.
Like an unchecked cancer, hate corrodes the personality and eats away its vital unity. Hate destroys a man's sense of values and his objectivity. It causes him to describe the beautiful as ugly and the ugly as beautiful, and to confuse the true with the false and the false with the true.
Martin Luther King Jr.
Seems like an interesting build. But I have a few questions.
You said your spells would be doing considerable more dmg than a 2h unholy build, exactly why is that?
And if DnD is your main source of dmg wouldn't the DnD Glyph be better off than, say the plague strike glyph?
I had an interesting idea. Currently Scourge Strike is being used as the FU strike of choice and as a result, Armor Penetration isn't worth getting. But what happens if you decide to use Obliterate and get enough Armor Penetration to make up the difference?
Armor Penetration's value is directly linked to the amount of Armor the boss has, the amount of attack power you have, and the % of DPS you get from Physical Sources. The more of each of these you have, the better Armor Penetration becomes as a stat.
Boss Armor on the PTR has a base of 10643. Sunder + Faerie Fire are multiplicative so it should reduce Armor by 24%. You need 222 Armor Penetration rating for Obliterate to equal Scourge Strike if calculations are correct. Note this doesn't take into account things like Cruelty or Subversion but just the base amounts. This would require a 3/16/52 build. This build would have better scaling but a worse base damage than 10/10/51. So at what point would 3/16/52 reach 10/10/51?
I suddenly realized that white damage was really jumping up as a % of damage. Pumping high amounts of Haste and Armor Penetration was the idea of Nergali in the DW thread and it seems he was on the right track. The trick was to do enough physical damage to make Armor Penetration worth it as a stat.
The current DnD rotation using values given by Ananais show disease damage to be 14.3% of damage. While this will, no doubt, lower against a real boss, it does illustrate that disease damage is very high with this setup so taking 3/3 Wandering Plague should be a DPS increase over Desecration. Especially since without Scourge Strike in the rotations, it won't be proccing as often.
Like an unchecked cancer, hate corrodes the personality and eats away its vital unity. Hate destroys a man's sense of values and his objectivity. It causes him to describe the beautiful as ugly and the ugly as beautiful, and to confuse the true with the false and the false with the true.
Martin Luther King Jr.
What do you propose for a Rotation, Because if you try to do a 15 sec rotation, you'll have no Room for GF since you have 3 Unholy Runes and 1 is used on DnD, 1 is used on PS for Disease, and the last one is used on OB, unless you Blood Tap a GF but that will be 30 secs it's up, 30 it's down...
ArPen is a suboptimal stat. Stacking a suboptimal stat is suboptimal. If you're stacking 200+ ArPen, you could instead have Scourge Strike and a ton more strength. You can't just blatantly ignore the opportunity costs when picking gear.
Step back. A DW Unholy build using Oblit and stacking ArPen should set off alarm bells in your head.
ArPen is a suboptimal stat. Stacking a suboptimal stat is suboptimal. If you're stacking 200+ ArPen, you could instead have Scourge Strike and a ton more strength. You can't just blatantly ignore the opportunity costs when picking gear.
Step back. A DW Unholy build using Oblit and stacking ArPen should set off alarm bells in your head.
This was partially my reaction as well. It seems you're trading all of the modifiers available to SS for an Obliterate that hits like a wet noodle with a high crit rate. I'll be the first to admit that my other ideas for builds haven't panned out anywhere near as well as Orlgin's build, and I believe he's got a much stronger grasp on the math behind the mechanics than I do. But I have to make the observation that, in the end here, we're stacking ArP really to buff white damage, which, including Necrosis and BCB, makes up the most significant portion of our damage in a DND build, and as a result I don't think we need to include additional physical damage strikes to justify that particularly when we have more lucrative options.
I don't entirely agree with the point that ArPen and Strength are mutually exclusive. Gear of equal iLvl tends to come with comparable levels of strength and the real competition for stats happens between ArP, Haste, Expertise, Crit, and Hit both in itemization and gemming. I don't think there's an argument that we're going to continue to gem for Strength as it's the most universally valuable stat that we have, but I do think that more testing needs to weigh the actual benefits of the other stats in this DW Unholy build's approach, particularly ArP. It would also be worth knowing if our Ghoul pet inherits (or will inherit) ArP from us as well.
I've been searching through the DK, Rogue, and Shaman forums (as all three classes DW, rely heavily on white damage, but have a majority of non-melee damage contributions to their overall DPS), and I haven't found any detailed examinations on how the new ArP actually plays out compared to other competing stats. I know Darkside has it listed as a to-do in his Stat Weights thread, and I'd be curious to hear him weigh in with his work on it. Otherwise, if anyone can point me to current research on this that's already been done and proves it's suboptimal, I'd love to see it. Until then though, I think it's very much worth it to ourselves to crunch the numbers.
Couldn't it possibly be more usefull to try and reach the Exp Cap before getting ArP so that 1. Rotation s won't have to about messing up due to dodges and 2. Increase in white damage aka necrosis also and BCB...? Just a thought.
Couldn't it possibly be more usefull to try and reach the Exp Cap before getting ArP so that 1. Rotation s won't have to about messing up due to dodges and 2. Increase in white damage aka necrosis also and BCB...? Just a thought.
Haha, Jibba Jabba indeed.
But absolutely you're right. The 3.1 changes are throwing a lot more cogs in the machine than just finding a new talent spec. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say that ArP is going to be the way to go, but I don't think we can just assume that capping spell hit and stacking Strength and Haste is going to carry us the way it did prior to 3.1. What you say makes a lot of sense, especially now that even as DW we're being pushed to rely much more on strikes as well as our white damage.
Obliterate is used as an FU attack to reset runes for Death N Decay. You use the rotation Ananais proposed but substitute Obliterate for Scourge Strike.
Armor Penetration is currently bugged on the PTR so that instead of being multiplied by 1.25, it's being divided by 1.25. When that is fixed, it's actually a pretty good stat.
Using Obliterate means that a greater percentage of damage is physical. This, in combination with the natural boost in attack power you will get from the new gear, puts Armor Penetration as a stat higher than Critical Rating but below Haste.
I suggest you check out the Unholy DPS section and check the link there to Armor Penetration. It's for PvP but can be easily used for PvE purposes which is why I listed the amount of armor that Bosses have in the initial post.
It's not intuitive by any stretch of the imagination. I got the idea reading the Unholy DPS thread where they posted the math for how much Armor Penetration it would take for Obliterate to overtake Scourge Strike. That amount doesn't include the 25% bonus that it's supposed to receive in 3.1.
Basically, you are aligning to maximize your white damage and in the process, you turn Obliterate into a good attack and make Armor Penetration a good stat by increasing the physical DPS % of your attacks.
Like an unchecked cancer, hate corrodes the personality and eats away its vital unity. Hate destroys a man's sense of values and his objectivity. It causes him to describe the beautiful as ugly and the ugly as beautiful, and to confuse the true with the false and the false with the true.
Martin Luther King Jr.
Obliterate is used as an FU attack to reset runes for Death N Decay. You use the rotation Ananais proposed but substitute Obliterate for Scourge Strike.
Armor Penetration is currently bugged on the PTR so that instead of being multiplied by 1.25, it's being divided by 1.25. When that is fixed, it's actually a pretty good stat.
Using Obliterate means that a greater percentage of damage is physical. This, in combination with the natural boost in attack power you will get from the new gear, puts Armor Penetration as a stat higher than Critical Rating but below Haste.
I suggest you check out the Unholy DPS section and check the link there to Armor Penetration. It's for PvP but can be easily used for PvE purposes which is why I listed the amount of armor that Bosses have in the initial post.
It's not intuitive by any stretch of the imagination. I got the idea reading the Unholy DPS thread where they posted the math for how much Armor Penetration it would take for Obliterate to overtake Scourge Strike. That amount doesn't include the 25% bonus that it's supposed to receive in 3.1.
Basically, you are aligning to maximize your white damage and in the process, you turn Obliterate into a good attack and make Armor Penetration a good stat by increasing the physical DPS % of your attacks.
That was a fairly interesting read. Regardless, coming up with an amount of ArPen needed to be equivalent to Scourge Strike is a flawed situation because those item budget points could have been spent on an even more inferior stat (crit, for argument's sake) and SS would still come out ahead of the old theoretical breakeven point.
EDIT: Note that the math below has been shown as attributing too much AP to SS and not enough to OB. Please disregard.
So I crunched some numbers on Obliterate vs. Scourge Strike. As I thought about it, Obliterate does have superior base scaling, and with the Glyph and the Awareness Sigil it may very well be possible that as weapons get better in Ulduar, that Obliterate could overtake SS. Below is what I put together, let me know if I missed anything.
Note: Any shared percentage based buffs are not included for sake of making the math easier and clearer. Bonus crit damage was applied only the crit portion of the damage, not the entire damage amount.
Obliterate Assumptions: 12% additional crit rate above base (Annihilation + Subversion), 20% bonus damage (Glyph), 4pT8 bonus. Sigil of Awareness providing 336 additional base damage.
Scourge Strike Assumptions: 6% additional crit rate above base (Vicious Strikes), 32% bonus damage (Outbreak * Black Ice), 30% bonus crit damage (Vicious Strikes). Sigil of Awareness providing 189 base damage.
Average Obliterate Hit = ((Base crit + 12%) * Crit damage) + ((1 - (Base crit + 12%)) * Full damage)
Average Scourge Strike Hit = ((Base crit + 6%) * Crit damage) + ((1 - (Base crit + 6%)) * Full damage)
Plugging in numbers we find that as AP and Crit rate increase, SS outscales OB in average damage. As Weapon damage increases, OB outscales SS. To test, I assumed an average of 5,000 AP and 30% base crit raid buffed, which is not unrealistic, and found that it would require main hand weapon damage of 917 for OB to equal SS in average damage for this build, and that's assuming enough ArP for Obliterate to ignore 100% of armor. Sadly, the best we've got is Malice weighing in at 582, and it's very unlikely we could accumulate that much ArP even if we gemmed for it. To demonstrate how much OB loses out in scaling, if we bump Base crit rate just up to 35% and hold everything else equal, we would need a main hand with an average damage of 1,645 to break even.
So while ArP may be amazing for our physical damage overall once the bug is fixed, and assuming I didn't completely botch the math above or miss out on something obvious, it simply doesn't justify replacing SS with OB in a deep Unholy build.
EDIT: As a point of interest, if we did the same test above with a 2H, OB wins by a large margin. In fact, for fun, I wanted to see what happened if we gave SS the benefit of a 100% crit rate against a 2H OB with 100% reduction, and it turns out that OB still wins for any weapon damage value >= 312. Just goes to show how much benefit 2Hs get from strike based abilities with high percentage weapon damage coefficients...
Obliterate (crit) : 0.226 x 2.0 x 1.03 = 0.465
SS (crit) : 0.165 x 2.3 x 1.03 = 0.391
You should have known something was the matter when an attack that did less than 100% weapon damage somehow scaled better with AP than an attack that does 132%. A 30% crit modifier won't change it that much.
As for bonus crit, Obliterate gets 3% from Annihilation, 3% from Ebon Plaguebringer, and 9% from Subversion. Scourge Strike gets 6% from Cruelty and 3% from Ebon Plaguebringer. It would get 3% from Annihilation but those 3 talent points were spent on Outbreak instead.
You forgot Ebon Plaguebringer's 13% bonus to Scourge Strike when you did your calculations.
It's even worse when you take into account the bonus from Blood Presence.
So Obliterate has more bonus damage as well. It gets a much bigger boost from the Sigil of Awareness.
The reason Obliterate doesn't obliterate Scourge Strike is that it deals physical damage which is reduced by armor while Scourge Strike completely ignores armor. Without armor penetration, Scourge Strike deals more damage. With sufficient Armor Penetration, Obliterate deals more damage.
@Kyruski: Bladed Armor scales very poorly. 3/16/52 scales better than 10/10/51. As mentioned previously, I have yet to determine at what point that 3/16/52 exceeds 10/10/51. It depends on what stats you have and what you emphasize. Taking Armor Penetration is a good idea for 3/16/52 and not so good for 10/10/51. This is due to the way Armor Penetration works.
3/16/52 is a white damage emphasizing build. It's designed to abuse the better white damage scaling as much as possible and during that process you end up getting enough Armor Penetration to make Obliterate worthwhile. Once Obliterate becomes worthwhile, it's worth switching three points from Outbreak to Annihilation. You then save a talent point (the one you used for Scourge Strike) and gain 3% extra critical on melee special attacks.
Last edited by Orlgin : 04/03/09 at 7:26 AM.
Like an unchecked cancer, hate corrodes the personality and eats away its vital unity. Hate destroys a man's sense of values and his objectivity. It causes him to describe the beautiful as ugly and the ugly as beautiful, and to confuse the true with the false and the false with the true.
Martin Luther King Jr.
Obliterate (crit) : 0.226 x 2.0 x 1.03 = 0.465
SS (crit) : 0.165 x 2.3 x 1.03 = 0.391
You should have known something was the matter when an attack that did less than 100% weapon damage somehow scaled better with AP than an attack that does 132%. A 30% crit modifier won't change it that much.
As for bonus crit, Obliterate gets 3% from Annihilation, 3% from Ebon Plaguebringer, and 9% from Subversion. Scourge Strike gets 6% from Cruelty and 3% from Ebon Plaguebringer. It would get 3% from Annihilation but those 3 talent points were spent on Outbreak instead.
You forgot Ebon Plaguebringer's 13% bonus to Scourge Strike when you did your calculations.
It's even worse when you take into account the bonus from Blood Presence.
So Obliterate has more bonus damage as well. It gets a much bigger boost from the Sigil of Awareness.
The reason Obliterate doesn't obliterate Scourge Strike is that it deals physical damage which is reduced by armor while Scourge Strike completely ignores armor. Without armor penetration, Scourge Strike deals more damage. With sufficient Armor Penetration, Obliterate deals more damage.
@Kyruski: Bladed Armor scales very poorly. 3/16/52 scales better than 10/10/51. As mentioned previously, I have yet to determine at what point that 3/16/52 exceeds 10/10/51. It depends on what stats you have and what you emphasize. Taking Armor Penetration is a good idea for 3/16/52 and not so good for 10/10/51. This is due to the way Armor Penetration works.
3/16/52 is a white damage emphasizing build. It's designed to abuse the better white damage scaling as much as possible and during that process you end up getting enough Armor Penetration to make Obliterate worthwhile. Once Obliterate becomes worthwhile, it's worth switching three points from Outbreak to Annihilation. You then save a talent point (the one you used for Scourge Strike) and gain 3% extra critical on melee special attacks.
so should we go with slow/fast when using oblit or still fast/fast ?
seems like a slow mainhand would scale better because bloodstrike and obliterate will both hit harder
Has the way in which AP is incorporated into damage changed? According to WoW Wiki's entry on instant attack normalization the AP bonus is added to overall damage as a separate component. Can you explain why you're factoring in weapon damage to create your AP coefficients? It seems like you might be double-dipping on Obliterate's superior weapon damage scaling...
Also, I left out the bonus crit from Ebon Plague as it was common to both attacks. The damage bonus, however, does indeed look like it needs to be factored in. I wrote it off under the impression it functioned like Impurity and affected only spells, not strikes, but reading the tooltip that certainly doesn't appear to be the case.
Base Weapon Damage was used because, back in those days, all instant weapon strikes used the weapon damage. Deathknight strikes are different because they use percentages of weapon strikes. Basically the entry is old. Since then, there are other attacks that do a percentage of damage that isn't 100%.
What weapon normalization means is that AP contribution from the weapon is treated always like it's speed 2.4 regardless of what speed it actually is. It was created to limit the amount of damage certain attacks scaled. Otherwise a 2.8 blue could outdamage a 2.6 epic when used for instant attacks. Currently the only benefit for using a weapon slower than 2.4 is the base weapon damage itself. Note that two-handers are normalized at 3.3 and gain more from attack power.
In this case, Obliterate gets the AP benefit of 80% of a weapon strike that is 2.4 speed regardless of the weapon involved as long as it's one-handed. Scourge Strike only gets the AP benefit of 45% of a weapon strike.
Like an unchecked cancer, hate corrodes the personality and eats away its vital unity. Hate destroys a man's sense of values and his objectivity. It causes him to describe the beautiful as ugly and the ugly as beautiful, and to confuse the true with the false and the false with the true.
Martin Luther King Jr.
Oh, I understand about normalization and why it was changed. What I was getting at was that if, with normalization, AP contribution should be independent of weapon damage and weapon speed, and that it only fluctuates on weapon type, shouldn't the calculation for OB and SS be along the lines of:
(((Modified Weapon Damage + Flat Bonus Damage) * Disease Modifier) + Normalized AP Contribution) * Global Damage Modifiers
Where Normalized AP Contribution is: (Weapon Speed Normalization Constant * AP) / 14
And Modified Weapon Damage is: Weapon Damage Modifer * Weapon Damage
In your post you were calculating AP contribution as follows:
Hence why it seems as though the modified weapon damage portion was being double-dipped in your calculations, giving Obliterate an AP advantage where the global damage modifiers should be giving the AP edge to Scourge Strike.
You are using 1.0 (which is 100% weapon damage) * 2.4 * mod1 * mod2 * mod3 all divided by 14 for an attack that doesn't deal 100% weapon damage.
The percentage of weapon damage that the strike deals is multiplied directly into the AP contribution. You don't assume that AP is always 100% weapon damage contribution. You calculate how much weapon damage it actually deals and use that.
All weapon normalization does is set the speed of the weapon for AP purposes to 2.4 (one handers).
Edit: I think this is a better way to explain it.
100% weapon damage AP contribution = AP/14. If you alter one end of the equation, you have to alter the other.
So 80% weapon damage AP contribution = 80% of AP/14
A good example is off-hand strikes which only get 50% AP contribution (untalented). They do half the damage and get half the AP benefit.
If Blizzard calculated the way you do, an off-hand attack would get 50% of the base weapon damage and 100% of the AP contribution. That off-hand would be hitting for a lot more than 50% of main-hand damage with large amounts of AP.
Last edited by Orlgin : 04/03/09 at 5:27 PM.
Like an unchecked cancer, hate corrodes the personality and eats away its vital unity. Hate destroys a man's sense of values and his objectivity. It causes him to describe the beautiful as ugly and the ugly as beautiful, and to confuse the true with the false and the false with the true.
Martin Luther King Jr.
There's one build that's sort of irking me right now. It just seems too good to be true for how it's doing imo. It's the 10/10/51 build that Kithus suggested in the reg DW Thread. It seems to be doing better in UP and I'm just trying to find out if it's really as good as it seems or if there's something deeper about it. Maybe scaling in UP vs BP, Scaling in general to other builds, I don't know. If someone here could please help me, it's just really irking me and I have been unable to go on the PTR for some time for some unknown reason so I can't test anything so I've had to resort to the DK Simulator which it preforms pretty well to other builds.
I was looking at the new unholy build and I am a bit confused at the taking outbreak rather than taking reaping. Wouldn't you get more damage out of this build putting another Icy touch into the rotation your second time around on your single blood rune rather than the 30% boost to your Plague Strike? Or is the spec on the frost page planning on the player using scourge strike instead of the Icy Touch and Plague Strike that it lists in the rotation?
Also I have been looking at 0/28/43? I am sorry, but I haven't been able to run any tests on this myself yet. The whole theory of the spec is to take advantage of the new Death Coil glyph along with the new Death Coil sigil. Obviously DC would be your main nuke in this spec and you use IT in order to build up your RP. This is also expecting you to have someone else bringing the 20% haste to the raid(the spec can be worked around to grant yourself the 20% haste).
Awesome, that makes perfect sense, particularly using the off-hand explanation. Thanks for clearing that up.
So next up, for your build's itemization, we're basically looking at capping spell damage hit, expertise, and getting ArP up to the necessary level for Obliterate to overtake Scourge Strike, followed by haste and finally crit. So the next question is whether or not this level of itemization is 1) accessible through available gear without using low iLevel items and 2) competitive in terms of DPS with such a gear set should it exist.
I was looking at the OP and it seems as if you still have the 10/10/51 build instead of the 3/1x/5x build.
Also I looked at your rotation which doesn't include SS or OB and noticed a mistake:
60 BBFFUU 0.0 DnD
75 XBXFXU 1.6 PS
90 XBXFXX 3.2 IT
110 XBXXXX 4.6 BS
122 XXXXXX 6.2 UB
82 XXXXXX 7.6 DC
42 XXXXXX 9.0 DC
04 BXFXUX 10.4 PS
19 BXFXXU 12.0 IT
39 BXXFXU 13.4 BS
51 BDXXXU 15.0 DnD
66 XXXXXX 15.1 Blood Tap -> Icy Touch
86 XXXXXX 16.5 DC
46 XXXXXX 17.9 DC
The mistake occurs at 15.1. You act as if BT resets the GCD or DnD does not have a GCD or something of the sort. You cannot do the IT that quickly after a DnD. Just thought I'd point it out.
Macro Icy Touch, Blood Tap, and Icy Touch and try it.
It's just an example of a priority system. I was trying to find a better rotation but failed miserably. Ananais found a great rotation that I like so I've been using that for math purposes.
03/16/52 isn't on the OP because I haven't determined that it's better. It's a proposed spec that I'm currently doing math for. I'm in the process of determining the best way to proceed. If Obliterate is being used, then I need to consider the considerable power of Chill to the Grave. If I determine threat levels are manageable with 2/3 Subversion, it's possible a 2/18/51 spec would be better.
I am surprised that 10/10/51 in Unholy Presence would do so well. I understand the theory of filling all GCDs so faster GCDs become a damage multiplier. It's what made 0/20/51 viable and 0/32/39 so strong. But you still run into the quantity versus quality problem. A seven move rotation will have better quality moves on average.
As for 0/28/43, you are giving up the strongest talents in Unholy for Rime, 2 points in Killing Machine, and Glacial Rot. Compare Rage of Rivendare to Rime + 2pt Killing Machine. Then compare Glacial Rot to Gargoyle. Deep Unholy still has 2 points to spend and you're already losing. The deep talents are really strong. It makes it so you essentially have to go the full 51 points. I have concluded that if you take more than 35 points in Unholy, you should just go ahead and get 51.
Like an unchecked cancer, hate corrodes the personality and eats away its vital unity. Hate destroys a man's sense of values and his objectivity. It causes him to describe the beautiful as ugly and the ugly as beautiful, and to confuse the true with the false and the false with the true.
Martin Luther King Jr.
03/13/09, 11:01 PM
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