Mindaika

I haven't seen anything to PROVE that 1 stam is better than 1 dodge/parry, and I presume we're reading the same forums. I've seen plenty of people arguing that EH is the only valid tank philosophy (despite the fact that EH ignores the reality of avoidance). I've seen proof that 1 dodge > 1 parry. In fact, it's probably not possible to prove that 1 stam is better than 1 dodge (or 1 parry), or at least not easily. 1% stam means you can take (more or less) 1 % more damage, but 1% dodge assumes you dodge 1% more of all incoming attacks. However to compare them, the rate of incoming attacks would have to be static, and it is not. As swing time increases, the value of dodge/parry decreases.

That being said, if you assume 1sta >= 1dodge/parry, then you should never, ever gem any BUT stam, since the stam gems are +24 and no other non-JC gem is close to that.

It is not possible to directly compare SG and SS in terms of item budgeting, because you are effectively pitting the value of stam vs. the value of avoidance, which is ultimately philosophical. The EH value tells you the maximum amount of damage you can take without being healed, but ignores that some portion of all incoming physical damage will be dodged/avoided. The TTL value gives the statistical amount of time you will live in any given physical fight, but assumes you will not be healed. More stam means you can take bigger hits/more hits. More avoidance means you take less damage. Which is better?

Realistically, I think all this is ultimately academic. You can use SG and stack stam and tank everything in both the current content and the next, or you can use SS and stack avoidance and tank everything in both the current content and the next.

Tastes like Awesome, because it's made of Awesome(TM)

 

Shadai

Okay some more changes.

* Cleaned up some more wording. Seems like every time I tinker with it I find myself phrasing something differently.

* Added a spec section! Please go easy, remember these are just general specs to help players find their way, not the end all be all of specs.

* Added some more slight changes

 

Mindaika

Everything you say is wrong!

Okay, just kidding. Seriously though: I'd consider moving the Rune Strike macro to be beginning of the "How do I fix my threat" section, as it seems like that is a major problem, and possible add in a link to the actual macro or a demo of it.

Tastes like Awesome, because it's made of Awesome(TM)

 

Shadai

Done and done. Except the macro section is at the end. Added more links to more posts that I found helpful. Added some more numbers to the diminishing returns section. I'm still taking notes everytime I see something that should be added, but in case I miss something, please reply to this thread or shoot me a PM and let me know what else I should add. The more information we keep here that is updated the more helpful this will be for everyone.

 

Shadai

Big Update. Fixed the format to make it easier to find information. Added several things to the list. Would anchor the table of contents but don't know how its done on this board... <a href> doesn't seem to work.

And if anyone knows how to make the abilities call up from Wowhead.... I'll fix the abbrevations too... [ ITEM] doesn't seem to work.

Please let me know if anything needs to be changed/added.

Death Knight Questions? Here are some answers!

 

Melchior

Just a nitpick, but all instances of "duel" should be changed to "dual" in the DW section(s). :P

http://sig.gamerdna.com/quizzes/INFL...erks/Junon.png

 

Shadai

Bah, good catch. My spell check has been fired. Fixed.

Death Knight Questions? Here are some answers!

 

clairecakes

At the risk of crossposting here's the FAQ I whipped up for Blood. I'm still seeing quite a few people wandering into this thread with questions answered in the FAQ. So read it if you're new. Blood pros please comment on it as well. Let me know what I missed as I'm by no means perfect.


Blood DPS : The Specs
51/0/20 DiseaseFree! - The current Blood Spec to beat. Virulence over Epidemic as a missed Icy Touch or Death Trance'd Death Coil can be quite sad.

51/0/20 AlternaBlood! - Depending on your rotation Epidemic COULD be in the cards for you. Makes a tight rotation a little looser.

51/13/7 - The "I have a Betrayer and [Sigil of Awareness] and can double Oblit for win" spec. Can be competitive with 51/0/20 but isn't advisable if you lack the gear. Toughness over Black Ice to buff Bladed Armor. 2 points can sit in either Glacier Rot or Icy Reach. But really if you've got the Sigil pony up for the first spec.

The Gear
Q: I just hit 80 and exalted with Ebon Blade. Can I go Blood now?
A: I really wouldn't recommend it. Blood is fairly gear dependent. You're using a lot of Heart Strikes and Obliterates which need a nice big fancy weapon to do big numbers. Running in with [Runeblade of Demonstrable Power] and expecting to keep up with the similarly geared DW DK is asking for heartache.
Q: So when the heck do I start putting my points into Hysteria so I can cast it on myself and laugh at the rogues and fury warrior?
A: When you have a nice big slow 2-hander. At least something like the [Colossal Skull-Clad Cleaver]. The harder the hitting the weapon the better your dps.
Q: OMG I just spent my badges on [Sigil of Haunted Dreams] am I going to bring the pain?
A: No. You will not. And when people inspect you they may laugh. Stick with the [Sigil of the Dark Rider] until Heigan stops being rude and hands over his [Sigil of Awareness]. Once acquired clutch it to your bosom and wait for 3.1 and a better Blood sigil.
Q: But what about the cute [Sigil of the Wild Buck]? It sounds sexy.
A: As sexy as it may be death coils just aren't THAT significant a part of most current blood rotations. You're better off with your starter sigil and a prayer.
Q: Seriously? But one's EPIC and the other wasn't acquired at level 55.
A: Okay some have suggested that with a DISEASE FREE rotation [Sigil of the Dark Rider] might not be so hot a choice. However further testing/math revealed that [Sigil of Haunted Dreams] only has a 5% uptime and is thus inferior. This math also showed that [Sigil of the Wild Buck] is still only so so.
Q: In people talk. Until Awareness drops WHAT I DO?!?!?
A: Stay with [Sigil of the Dark Rider].

The Rotation
Note: Depending on your glyph and floater spec points you will be using either Icy Touch or Plague Strike first. Hopefully you've read the tooltips or your glyphs and spec and know which should start things off.

51/0/20 DiseaseFree!
Currently the scuttlebutt is axing diseases = profit/dps for a well geared Blood DK. Pros? Super super easy rotation. Very forgiving rotation and plenty of time for Death Coils. Cons? You need very nice gear to pull it off.

OB>OB>HS>HS>RUNE DUMP
HS>HS>HS>HS>HS>HS>RUNE DUMP

Take diseases off your bars and keep those Death Runes up!

51/0/20 AlternaBlood!
If you're running with diseases you're sitting on a very tight rotation. Error means smaller numbers and a reaming for a raid leader. You scared? I am every time I go into 3d Sarth. Anyways...

OB>IT>PS>HS>HS>RUNE DUMP
HS>HS>HS>HS>OB>RUNE DUMP
IT>PS>HS>HS>HS>HS>RUNE DUMP
HS>HS>OB>IT>PS>RUNE DUMP

Now rinse and repeat. The idea is to use Oblit to refresh death runes and remove diseases. That's it. Death Coil should only be used when everything is on CD or you have a Death Trance! proc.

51/13/7
Congrats. You're trying the former king of the Blood jungle. It isn't quite as good as it used to be and it is largely dependent on churning out Oblits. Personally if you're that Oblit happy I'd say move onto Frost, but you have your reasons. Here's your rotation.

IT/PS>PS/IT>HS>HS>OB>RUNE DUMP
OB>HS>HS>OB>RUNE DUMP

Okay I lied. You have two rotations. The above is better off in Unholy Presence. A 51/13/7 spec is also gonna get a lot of use out of:

OB>IT/PS>PS/IT>HS>HS>RUNE DUMP
OB>HS>HS>HS>HS>RUNE DUMP

Unlike the non-Epidemic 51/0/20 spec you have more leeway with getting your heart strikes out. Enjoy your free time.

The Presence
Q: Blood Presence is a lot of fun and even though I'm spec'd into Blood Aura I like that 15% bonus to damage. Can I stay in Blood?
A: Sure. For the most part choice of presence is a matter of preference. For your pleasure I will now list pros and cons of each presence.

Blood
Pros: 15% damage to all your attacks. You hit like a truck and make mobs cry.
Cons: Blood has a very tight rotation. In a movement heavy fight you may feel penalized. Also due to the limitations of a 1.5 second GCD you can't just fire off death coils when you have the time. The idea is the 15% damage to all your other attacks outweighs the potential extra death coils each cycle.

Unholy
Pros: You can run real fast....no but really, you're not limited by the GCD so in a movement heavy fight you can squeeze in another Heart Strike before your diseases tick off. You can also squeeze in a few more Death Coils.
Cons: You're losing out on 15% extra damage to every attack you make. You're not dual wielding or a rogue but a big hoss with a 2-handed weapon. Not hitting like a truck could make you cry.

Frost
Get out of my FAQ.

AOE
Q: My BFF is spec'd into Howling Blast and/or Wandering Plague and just laughs as he spams stuff and wins. What do I do?
A: Cry. No I'm just joshing ya. Remember we got a CLEAVE. Part of Blood AOE is discretion. Ask yourself a series of questions when coming into an AOE pack. Am I glyphed in DnD? Are these things going to go down in a few seconds? Am I wearing underpants?

Generally when you're pulling a pack of elite mobs it's best to go PS>IT>Pestilence>Heart Strike>Blood Tap>DnD. Then just worry about keeping those diseases up while you cleave for win.

On squishier fare (like the baby drakes on Sarth) you'll go DnD>PS>IT>Pestilence. Then they're dead and you're back on the boss. Remember you're not a Frost or Unholy DK. Use your discretion and glower at them...and the mages...and the warlocks...and that freakish Shadow Priest that tops the meter every dang time. Bastard.

Glyphs
There are two Glyphs you should ALWAYS have. [Glyph of Obliterate] and [Glyph of Blood Strike]. Before you ask, yes Blood Strike works for Heart Strike. After these two glyphs you've got a free slot. Death and Decay, Ghoul and Plague Strike are all great options. If you're just starting into 10/25 mans and raid dps is eh go with Plague Strike. If you do a lot of AOE pulls then consider Death and Decay. If you're killing Patchwerk in under 3 minutes then Ghoul is a great choice.

Itemization and Gems and Professions
Q: I got my T7 helm. What meta should I load into this puppy?
A: [Chaotic Skyflare Diamond] is the choice for you. Don't believe me? Read this.
Q: This slot doesn't require a blue or a red or a yellow what do I stick in it?
A: [Bold Scarlet Ruby]
Q: Clearly the above answers my question for red slots as well. But what of yellow or blue slots? That socket bonus is tight yo.
A: Do you REALLY need that socket bonus? Okay. What evs. Might I suggest something from our lovely [Etched Monarch Topaz] or [Inscribed Monarch Topaz] line? What? You need to match a BLUE socket. Very well. Many find our [Sovereign Twilight Opal] to be a fetching shade.
Q: Shut it! I want some attack power or armor penetration or haste. They all seem to be flashier.
A: Flashier maybe, but not for a DK. Especially a Blood DK. Remember you get a ton out of Strength and it counts for about 2 attack power. That's sexy.
Q: Quick! Haste or agility on my cloak?
A: Survey says...haste. Not sure why but I'll follow the pack and the currently flawed Rawr on this one.
Q: Later in this FAQ you make a big fuss about sunders and you're telling me not to gem for Armor pen? You're dumb.
A. No YOU ARE. The armor pen you gain from your gear and debuffs is more then enough.
Q: So haste or armor pen when I choose gear?
A: Armor pen. Haste benefits you melee swing and your death coil. Armor Pen benefits HS, Oblits, and Melee. A lovely fellow did the math to back up the statement here.
Q: I noticed you're an engineer? How's that working out for you?
A: Currently Hyperspeed Accelerators give you 340 haste rating for 10 seconds every 60 seconds. Someone better with arithmetic then myself did the math. It comes out to about 57 haste rating static which just barely beats out 44 attack power. If you were daft like me and went Engineering then enjoy, but they're currently not worth dropping another profession for.
Q: Man I haven't even started leveling professions yet. What do you suggest?
A: Plenty of threads show the pros and cons of each profession. JC/BS is currently the best for an eager little minmaxer.

Things to Remember
Q: What the heck does [Glyph of Blood Strike] work on anyways?
A: [Glyph of Blood Strike] works when the target is snared. That means Frost Nova, Desecration, Chains of Ice, Frostfire Bolt and any other SNARE. Even if the debuff does not necessarily work on the target (like Sarth) the glyph still works. Don't believe me? See here and here.
Q: So does Frost Fever count as a snare?
A: No. No it doesn't. Don't confuse debuffs classified as snares for a Mage's Torment of the Weak with what is classified as a snare for the rest of us. Yes it's a double standard. Get over it.
Q: Halp! I fail on the Boss Dummy and my dps is only so so in raids. WHAT I DO?
A: Um...is sunder up? Look at your damage. More then 50% of it comes from physical attacks which are mitigated by a target's armor. That means your warrior has to sunder or your rogue has to expose armor. It also means you may not do the same damage as an identically geared DK spec'd into Frost of Unholy. They rely on more attacks that are NOT mitigated by armor.
Q: My DPS still fails. Blood is dumb.
A. Blood is like a lot of DPS classes. Stacked cooldowns can make or break your dps. DRW and your Ghoul get their stats and dps from you. If you pop them just whenever you'll do okay DPS. If you pop them when a trinket and Fallen Crusader procs and cast Hysteria on yourself AND blow your other trinket or racial all right as Bloodlust is being popped? Profit.
Q: So I pop my ghoul and DRW at the same time? Right before or right after Bloodlust?
A: Tricky. DRW benefits from Bloodlust if it has just been popped on you. Ghoul, like most other pets beyond your control (mages know what I'm talking about) must already be summoned when Bloodlust goes. Work with your shaman and raid leader. In a former life I raided as a mage and had a VERY annoying DPS macro that indicated my pets and trinkets and other goodies were all being blown. Shamans could notice that and pop BL after they saw it....or at least I like to think that's why they did it.

 

Foxx2405

Just to post a small correction.

When you dual wield the chance to miss with both main and offhand are equal. So your offhand wont miss more. This is a common misconception that the extra chance to miss is only counted for the offhand. But its for both.

So melee attack will have a chance to miss.

The penalty that is added is 19%, that means that against equal level you have the 5% miss chance + 19% dual wield penalty = 24%.
Against bosses this chance is 27% (5% base + 3% level difference + 19% penalty).

Just to prevent confusing people.

 

Nen

You might have mistyped the rotation for 51/0/20, since your explanation after it was spot on.

OB IT PS HS HS DC - start

rotation:
HS HS HS HS OB DC
IT PS HS HS HS HS DC
HS HS OB IT PS DC

 

Nerub

Never mind.

 

Netlawyer

Just to post a small correction to the build.
You haven’t included 3 points in Nerves of Cold Steel (you took Annihilation instead), which seems to be extremely essential for DW.

 

Bigwang

Shouldn't you start with 2x IT for deseases on the target and for ob benefitting from it ?

 

Foxx2405

Well the actual rotation goes like this:

OB>OB>IT>BS
OB>OB>BS>IT

Remember its a rotation, so the Obliterates in benefit from the frost fever that the IT in the previous put up.

And to start it off (because you kinda need death runes first) you can either use blood tap, or you can start it with this simple rotation:

IT>OB>BS>BS

I usually use the rotation, that leaves you with 1 unused unholy rune but thats ok since its only a kick starter.

After that you can use the rotation posted above.

(The reason I post Obliterate before IT, is because it is important that your obliterates eat the frost and unholy runes and that your icy touch uses a death rune. To keep the rotation nice and steady.

 

Bigwang

ah ok, thanks for the fast answer

another question: how do i implement ua in my rotation: immediately after ob ( with 2 deathrunes) with a macro (bloodtap + ua) ?

 

Shadai

Fixed that Duel Wield hit issue, thanks for bringing it to my attention. Knew what I was trying to do but wasn't sure on the specifics.

Added links to the DW DPS and the Blood DPS section so it keeps their links (makes it easier for me). Thanks for the submissions.

Added some things to the FAQ. Working on a Glyph and Gem section for the Gear section in tanking. Will have that up soon.

Anything else you'd like to see, please let me know!

Death Knight Questions? Here are some answers!

 

Shadai

Added the Glyph and Gem Section! Enjoy!

Death Knight Questions? Here are some answers!

 

Griefknight

Whoa whoa slow down there, I don't think we need a description for each type of gem you COULD socket... maybe something along the lines of what you SHOULD socket. I know there isn't such thing as a best in slot gem but we generally don't want to see people using 16 dodge gems or 16 parry gems.

 

Mindaika

The title of the thread should probably be changed, since really this is a the tanking FAQ, not the general DK FAQ, and may confuse newcomers.

Tastes like Awesome, because it's made of Awesome(TM)

 

• frmorrison

The OP has a section on DPS in post #2. It doesn't cover all DK flavors of dps, but it has a some of them listed.

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

• Tehax

Any post after this point discussing the use of the phrase "defense cap" instead of "uncrittable point" or whatever else will be shitheaped and infracted.

 

MyrddinE

I don't see a mention about rune recoils and the 2 second leeway runes have to allow players to maintain 10s rotations. That seems like a pretty good piece of information to include in the FAQ.

 

Shadai

Actually, its already there. I provided a link right in the introduction of runes that leads to the TTT thread written by Illundai. He does a great job of explaining how the runes return and the 2 seconds leeway.

Death Knight Questions? Here are some answers!

 

Ladana

I have been brooding over this some time: The talent Two-Handed Weapon Specialization in the blood tree gives 4% bonus damage. Now does this apply to auto-attacks only? Or does it factor in for specials that use the value of weapon damage as base damage?

 

Amroo

It adds 4% your weapon damage after AP-contribution, so yes, any special that uses weapon damage in its damage formula will profit.