I've been dancing around a few different specs and setups of late. I know there's various different approaches for DW builds and 2H Frost builds.

I've read about the 6x IT builds, and see the idea. Is there no longer any validity to the idea of a 14/50/7 type setup for 2H frost, for the longer diseases? I know a spammier IT build does not need this, but I also feel that the 6x IT rotations are difficult to manage.

I've also been DW, with F/F Razorice/Cinderglacier. 33/38 taking Deathchill. From what I understand the blood strike glyph works with a range of snares including desecration, ffb etc, making it a pretty decent choice (iirc).

I've had mixed results with both 2h Frost and DW. They seem to have their pros and cons. Obviously pretty balanced as intended by Blizz. If topping overall dmg done was my aim I would have to take Frost 2h because to me it does the more aoe dmg; single target seems quite even from my experience across several raids, with what I feel is a slight edge going towards the dw spec still.

I could post PW numbers and even dummy numbers, but I think general discussion based on experience is more informative than the number posting.

Finally got to DPS patchwerk this week, results were pretty good.

5808 DPS (6048) from WMO: WoW Meter Online - The Best World of Warcraft Combat Log Analyse System!Fully support Wrath of the Lich King!

Popped army on the pull, though I forgot to switch presences for it. Also forgot to pop speed pot for gargoyle.

Specced 17/0/54 cookie cutter, gear is all best in slot besides weapon and trinket. Fallen Crusader on weapon. Also had a 2nd unholy DK in the raid, so uptime on my 3rd disease wasn't 100% (Can't give more info than that, I wasn't watching the debuff). Followed the standard 2h unholy rotation: 5xSS, 2x BS, replace a SS with PS->IT when necessary to keep diseases up.

Glyphs: SS, ghoul, BS

DPS: 3549
Spec: 21/50/0
Rotation: BT > IT - BS - OB - FS - OB - FS Dump (Rime)
WWS: here
Outlying factors: I'm wearing 9 blue items (10 at the time of the WWS, with none of these prismatic gems). No AotD. A 4'19" fight, too. Obliterate crit rate seems low.
Weapon: Titansteel Destroyer with Fallen Crusader
Instance: 25-man

For my gear, I gotta say that number seems awfully high without AotD. 2H Frost appears to not require any sort of amazing gear.

Did you achieve these reults with the spec that I see in your amory? I'm assuming not since it shows you decked out in pvp gear and Pale Horse is not a staple in any raid build I have seen to date. If at all possible, would you mind posting a link to the setup you had going at the time (i.e. spec, rotation, weapon/runeforging)? The useful posts in this thread seem to follow a given format of sorts. Thanks.


EDIT: Thank you for fixing that Mal.

Go read the blood thread in the last 2 pages or so. Testing was done on a real boss (not a dummy). Confirmed to work with FFB debuff as well as Chains (and probably any other snare ability that leaves a debuff on a boss).

DPS= 4486
Spec 0/20/51 DW Brahms
Weapons = WF (FC)/ Grasscutter (Cinderglacier)
Glyphs = Ghoul, Icy Touch, Plague Strike
Rotation - PS, PS, IT, IT, BB, BB, UB + DC RP dump, PS, IT, IT, IT, IT, DCx2 RP Dump > PS, IT, IT, BB,BB, UB + DC RP Dump (PS, PS, IT, IT, BB, BB while gargoyle is up)
WWS - PW 25 man 3.16mins
Factors- Had a Feral Druid, Imp IT DK, Expose Weakness (Survival Hunter x2)

I'm still trying to figure out a rotation for this build. This seemed to work alright for last night but I get the feeling I'm missing something. Also I believe I was fighting another DK for Ebon Plaguebringer the whole fight.

DPS: 6384 (6643)
WMO link: WoW Meter Online - The Best World of Warcraft Combat Log Analyse System!Fully support Wrath of the Lich King!
Spec: 0/34/37
Weapons: Widow's Fury (FC)/Split Greathammer (FC)
Glyphs: Icy Touch, Ghoul, Plague Strike

No I was in Blood Presence I wasn't aware you did dps in in Unholy for the 0/20/51 build

WWS Link : Wow Web Stats (yep i know WWS isnt the best thing for this one but was my first choice this way sry bout that)
DPS: 4124 (Patchwerk / 3202 overall)
Spec: 0/32/39
Weapons: Angry Dread (CG) / Split Greathammer (CG)
Glyphs. Blood Strike, Plague Strike, Ghul
Rotation: PS,IT,BS,BS,HB dump PS,IT,IT,IT,HB dump

Hi there, i am reading this forum now for a couple of weeks now but the more i read, the lower my dps seems to become . As you can see the dps for Patchwerk are barely okay. Any sugesstions that could push the DPS?

I was encountering heavy lags which brought my early death in the Haigan and Thaddius boss fights.

Didn't manage to get a WoWMeteronline parse, but I do have a screenshot of recount for Patchwerk DPS as 32/39.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y18...409_191606.jpg
6044 DPS.

DW [Split Greathammer]/[Hailstorm].
Rotation: IT > PS > HB > BSx2 > DCx2 / IT > PS > HB >ITx2 > DCx2. Cancelaura Macros for Freezing Frog.
Popped AotD at the beginning of the pull, waited for Bloodlust to pop the Gargoyle. Forgot to pop Speed Pot (=[).

DPS: 5675
ACT DPS: 5795
Build: 0/20/51
Weapons: Angry Dread (FC) / Hailstorm (Razor Ice)
Link:WoW Meter Online - The Best World of Warcraft Combat Log Analyse System!Fully support Wrath of the Lich King!
AOTD on engagement with haste pot and stance switch

I screwed up a couple times and forgot to send my pet in to attack till after AOTD finished casting. My armory is going to be incorrect as I got a betrayer last night and have been wanting to experiment with some 2h builds.

I just want to point out that Gargoyle is not a big cooldown like it used to be. Last patchwerk as 17/54 garg was 3% of my damage (with trinket procs and potion of speed but without bloodlust).

Impressive, Chappa. But could you please include your rotation?
I'm assuming since you don't have DRM it's either the blood tapped one or some type of PS IT BS BS OB -> PS IT OB OB by the amount of ITs you have there.

(Which begs the question - why no IT spam? Seems to be a hot topic right now in the 2h frost spec)

6186dps 3:16 Patchwerk kill

17/54 Unholy, standard rotation
wowmeteronline parse

Used Sigil of Awarnes, weapon was Titansteel Destroyer (I got the axe on this run). Didn't have improved wf.
Used Potion of speed before summoning Army of the Dead on the pull in unholy presence.
Garg used on trinket procs with potion of speed, but without bloodlust.

I started fight with OB, OB, BS, BS, bloodtap+unbreakable armor-macro, FS, FS, FS. After first set I continue with IT, OB, OB, BS, FS, FS, FS. BT+UA is used every minute when its not on cooldown right after the runes are burned. I also tried to use FS after KM procced but I seemed to fail in it quite a few times.

About the question concerning why not IT-spam (assuming you mean 6 IT's in second set of runes). As far as I know its good when your gear (especially weapon) isnt that great but when having a good weapon (I have Death's Bite) + better gear. IT, OB, OB, BS, Rdump gets better. I think there was some calculations in Frost-dps thread.

34/37.. Interesting. What presence?

So judging by Ztn's and Dartherial's results can we say that FC/FC is the best choice for runeforging?

I also had a question that I'm sure has been answered but I couldn't find using search or FAQ. I know EPB is only good for 1 DK per raid, but what about 1 DK with EPB and 1 with CF? I often have EPB in raid and I don't know if I should put 1 point into CF or outbreak. (DW spec)

thanks

Just from some loose modeling I've done, I would say that FC/FC is the best for high values of strength. If you're still in mediocre gear, you are probably better off going with FC/CD.

As of patch 3.08, CF will not stack with EPB.

So any points in CF are wasted if EPB is already there? Ill put the point into outbreak then I guess

Any numbers for the approximate point at which FC overcomes CD? I'm at 2850 AP and thinking of switching. I'll record patchwerk numbers tonight but won't be able to compare until next week

Looks like it, if you have the gear for it.

Also, they both had 2 points in runic power mastery, although for the life of me I can't decide why. 120 RP lets you cast 3 death coils back to back, but Darth only does this once, and the rest of the time he casts DC at most 2 times in a row. WMO gives me an error when I try to view Ztn's combat log. If your DC'ing twice per 10s cycle, as Darth does most of the time, it seems 100 RP should be plenty?

The only reason I can think of is that it lends more freedom to the priority-based approach, and priority-based has always given me better results because I can coordinate better with KM procs.

Darth, another question, did you cancel FF and if so under what circumstances?

At least from what I've seen thus far, past a certain point you are looking at a significant improvement in swapping to dual Fallen Crusader over Fallen Crusader/Razorice or Fallen Crusader/Cinderglacier. Now as to the *exact* point at which the swap become viable, I haven't run the math on that and thus I can't say for sure. That being said, a general reasoning would be to take a look at where your damage is coming from. A large amount of damage (usually >25%) comes purely from your melee damage in the 32/39 build (or close variants such as my 34/37). Fallen Crusader gives a benefit to *all* of your damage abilities, rather than just Frost or Shadow sources. For your geared-out raider (assuming 1200 Strength), you're looking at a roughly 400 Strength increase from Fallen Crusader... which is pretty massive. It also makes it a lot easier to coordinate popping your Gargoyle as as has been mentioned earlier in this thread, you're pretty much at the mercy of your raid for when Heroism/Bloodlust gets popped.

You're spot on with the 2/3 Runic Power Mastery. With the increase in RP generation with the new IT glyph and the 15pt generation of double rune skills, you're looking at a much more consistent flow of RP during a standard rotation. Prior to 3.0.8 you were looking at roughly 1 to 2 Death Coils per half-rotation (based on previously spotty RP gen) whereas now you are looking at a consistent 2 DC's per half-rotation. This isn't the best parse for it, but I am able to throw out 3 DC's in a row in many other fights which I consider to be a DPS increase. I'm also using Blood Boil over Blood Strike which cuts my GCD time making it less of a squish (or muffin-top) to get this into Blood Presence.

I run a very fluid, on-the-fly priority-based rotation. Ideally I'm lining up my Killing Machine procs with Howling Blast although I'm certainly not perfect

Regarding Freezing Fog... I do have two keys for Howling Blast, one with a /cancelaura Freezing Fog built into it, the other with just Howling Blast itself. Given the way that Rime procs interact with the Howling Blast cooldown now, I think that you're doing yourself a disservice by blindly cancelling out Freezing Fog. For example, in the second part of the cycle, when you're throwing out IT's with your Death Runes, you've got a damn good shot of getting a Rime proc. You're also not that far off of your cooldown on Howling Blast at that point, so what I'll often do is get the proc, throw a Death Coil (sometimes 2), pop Howling Blast using Freezing Fog, then throw another 1-2 Death Coils, restart the cycle, and by the time it's time to hit my Howling Blast again, it's off cooldown. For the "planned" Howling Blasts I do use the /cancelaura macro though as not to disrupt my RP generation. There are other modifications that I make to the rotation to work in as many Howling Blasts as possible but those are really generated on-the-fly, whereas the example that I give above is the most common.