Finding Top Raid DPS 3.08 - Page 13

Norther · 02/01/09, 3:35 PM

Originally Posted by ztn

why Berserking? 400ap-15sek/1min is not even comparable with Crusader or Cinderglacier...

Fallen crusader doesnt stack, so that takes out that argument right there.

As for cinderglacier, you can't argue it's viability w/o knowing the PPM of both. Considering Cinderglacier DOES NOT affect our meele which is over 1/3 of dmg for a DW DK, if they had about even PPM, berserking would definately be better IMO.

ztn · 02/01/09, 4:14 PM

0/35/36
Patchwerk 7651dps 1-59
WoW Meter Online
LL/WF 2xFC
Glyphs: IT, Ghoul, Bone shield

Norther · 02/01/09, 5:25 PM

Originally Posted by ztn

0/35/36
Patchwerk 7651dps 1-59
WoW Meter Online
Fast/Fast 2xFC
Glyphs: IT, Ghoul, Bone shield

What weps did you use?

kurokaze · 02/01/09, 6:04 PM

Norther: Dual Crusader does not 'stack' but it does increase uptime significantly. According to my math here, even unbuffed and with suboptimal gear, Crusader OH handily beats berserking OH in raw attack power contribution. Add in the fact that Crusader gives strength which applies to Ghoul and multiplies with Kings, and add in the fact that it does very nice things double-stacked with DM:G, and berserking really looks rather odd. The only potential benefit Berserking has is that you can theoretically double-stack it with Crusader for Gargoyle, but really, at 1.2 PPM that isn't going to be near reliable enough to make up for the huge loss in power.

The logic behind Razorice/Cinderglacier being better than Berserking is simple: they are considered superior to FCx2, and FCx2 is superior to Berserking. Whether they actually are superior to FCx2 isn't entirely clear to me; the scaling factors are murky but I definitely can see FCx2 pulling ahead at very high strength levels.

Also, if your melee is 1/3 of your damage, you're obviously counting Necrosis. I'm pretty sure Cinderglacier does, in fact, affect Necrosis (and any other periodic/proc shadow/frost damage) without using a charge.

ztn · 02/01/09, 6:34 PM

Originally Posted by Norther

What weps did you use?

LL/WF

Oxylos · 02/01/09, 11:04 PM

Since i believe the actual intent of this thread is to find out what specs are superior (albeit only on patchwerk with 100% bone shield and desecration uptime which already skews things plenty...) I wonder if we might try a bit more standardization. Of course dummies just dont work, but its obvious and has been pointed out many times that quite frankly dps numbers right now are more a function of your guilds kill speed than anything else.
To that end, perhaps something could be tried like any DK takes his own combat log, and only submits the first 90 (60?) seconds of patchwerk so that the length of the fight is standardized. I imagine the only major descrepency this could create is merciless combat but that can either be done mathematically, or ignored as when i last saw the numbers it wasn't that big a deal anyway. Possibly limiting it to 60s or 75s helps this. I'm under the impression that all the gargolyes these days are simply done after heroism and if you have procs you have procs if you dont you dont, and that heroism comes early, so while obviously RNG will always play a factor (KM, Rime, crits in general) it just seems if we actually want to try to get useful numbers and not just a bunch of epeen posts, something has to be done.

Just an idea to actually make numbers here more worthwhile, if that is indeed the actual intent of the thread.

Fargom · 02/01/09, 11:10 PM

Originally Posted by ztn

0/35/36
Patchwerk 7651dps 1-59
WoW Meter Online
LL/WF 2xFC
Glyphs: IT, Ghoul, Bone shield

Hey ZTN, very nice work.

Mind sharing what rotation you were using? I've been playing around with a priority system instead of the normal 32/39 rotation.

Figure if we are going to be discussing max dps we may as well discuss your post, considering either you have found a secret in the 2x FC or the stars fell into alignment for you. I've not seen anyone else even close to this level of DPS.

Oxylos · 02/01/09, 11:24 PM

Originally Posted by Fargom

Hey ZTN, very nice work.

Mind sharing what rotation you were using? I've been playing around with a priority system instead of the normal 32/39 rotation.

Figure if we are going to be discussing max dps we may as well discuss your post, considering either you have found a secret in the 2x FC or the stars fell into alignment for you. I've not seen anyone else even close to this level of DPS.

The first thing I notice standing out looking at his wow meter compared to the front page 32/39 parses:
Average non-crit IT damage from front page parses
Grimaxe: 2622
Ryuuzaki: 3026
Wunju: 3143
Smutt: 3263

ZTN: 3639.

A full 11.5% average non-crit IT damage higher than the highest front page parse, DESPITE no cinderglacier, no razorice, and using bandit's insignia so no other ap proc. 39% over a 5708dps parse.

ztn · 02/02/09, 12:43 AM

Originally Posted by Fargom

Hey ZTN, very nice work.

Mind sharing what rotation you were using? I've been playing around with a priority system instead of the normal 32/39 rotation.

Figure if we are going to be discussing max dps we may as well discuss your post, considering either you have found a secret in the 2x FC or the stars fell into alignment for you. I've not seen anyone else even close to this level of DPS.

ps it bb bb hb 2x[coil] (it+coil if rime procs)
ps it it it hb 2x[coil] (it+coil if rime procs)

during heroism one rotation with 3x[coil] (have +20rp tallent)

and about 3.6k IT's:
i have abnormal amount of strenght - 1438unbuffed and 2xFC uptime was

Unholy Strength : 7 Times ( 01:15 , 64% )

Rune of Razorice was wrom another DK

so it's some sort of random coz if we compare HB average hit - it will be:
Smutt 4881
Wunju 4726
Ztn 4419

main source of additional damage was +1coil each rotation, which becomes possible after change bs with bb... So 1.5gcd - only 1st in rotation and then all others gcds affected by spell haste...

Blinks · 02/02/09, 12:45 AM

Originally Posted by ztn

0/35/36
Patchwerk 7651dps 1-59
WoW Meter Online
LL/WF 2xFC
Glyphs: IT, Ghoul, Bone shield

Perhaps I'm missing something obvious here but it seems you've gotten credit in that parse for duplicate abilities. It shows two differing categories for Blood-Caked Strike, Claw, etc. If it were adding additional abilities into the log it would skew things quite a bit I'd imagine. Even without those its a respectable parse, I'm just noting it for posterity's sake here.

kurokaze · 02/02/09, 12:52 AM

Blood-Caked Strike appears to have separate entries on WMO for main and offhand hits, judging by the fact that other parses also show two entries and one entry is always around half the other for average damage. The separate claw entries are from perma-ghoul and from Army. He also gained Tricks of the Trade (15% increased damage for 6 seconds) 3 times.

Bloodscape · 02/02/09, 2:31 AM

Alright so Зтнсан are you using UP or BP?

Also i assume you open the fight with horn while moving to position.

so 10rp+10ps+25it+20bb2+20hb for 85rp then drop 2xdc for -80 leaves you with 5rp
then +10ps+75it3+10bb+20hb leaves you with 120, you drop 2 dc -80 leaves you with 40 rp.

Ok so rime procs you instead of the 2xdc you use it/dc.

Seems as tho the +20 rp talent basically just allows +1 dc per 20 seconds during heroism so your only really gaining 2 deathcoils per 5 mins, hell say each dc hits for 5k. that's 33 dps.

Guess i'm going to have to remove my rime cancel macro line and give it a try.

ztn · 02/02/09, 3:43 AM

patchwerk is 2min battle not 5min (so it's about 80+ dps) and +20rp keeps me very comfortable thowing coils during garg... I don't have real maths about valuability +20rp, BUT when i realize that i have 2 points left - i try +20rp and it's exactly wtat i was lack off before... It's not my brain - it's my hands says me that these 2 points is very very good!!!

zALDARIs · 02/02/09, 4:06 AM

Originally Posted by Bloodscape

so 10rp+10ps+25it+20bb2+20hb for 85rp then drop 2xdc for -80 leaves you with 5rp
then +10ps+75it3+10bb+20hb leaves you with 120, you drop 2 dc -80 leaves you with 40 rp.

Why is there a BB in your second rotation ?

Littleolme · 02/02/09, 4:31 AM

Originally Posted by Oxylos

Since i believe the actual intent of this thread is to find out what specs are superior (albeit only on patchwerk with 100% bone shield and desecration uptime which already skews things plenty...) I wonder if we might try a bit more standardization.

This has always been my issue with using Patchwerk as the status quo. While it's a great to stand around and flex your muscles after pulling off 8k dps on one encounter (and I think many of us would), you simply can't maintain it in any situation where there isn't some form of modifier to the encounter (like Thaddius, for example). I don't think this proves that 35/36 is any better than, say 17/0/54, overall.

You want honesty? Average your dps on a complete Naxx clear, obviously only accounting for the bosses.