Wouldnt the 1.12% resil that is on the wep count for some kinda dmg reduction?
No.
Originally Posted by Wowwiki
Resilience is a character attribute that reduces the chance to receive critical strikes or spell critical strikes, reduces the effect of mana drain spells, reduces the damage taken from critical strikes and spell critical strikes, and reduces the damage taken from players overall.
The initial post on the front page is very close to what I have been running for the past few weeks. The only minor tweaks were the floating point in AMS and SS glyph. Both of these could be swapped based on preference.
What I can suggest.
Unholy
Unholy has recently been improved.
Unholy Strengths
Physical Damage Reduction - Bone Shield: Prepull / Tank Swap capability, Maximum amount of time based on avoidance
Magic Damage Reduction - Best of the three trees
Raid Buffs - Ebon Plaguebringer is fantastic, and unholy Death Knights apply this debuff to (unlimited) nearby targets very easily.
Very Strong AoE Threat
Unholy Weaknesses
Bone Shield has an internal CD of 3 seconds - Minimum amount of time is lower than other tank talents(12 secs with glyph)
Lower single target threat
Unholy Builds
Standard
Single Target Rotation - IT-PS-BS-SS-BS (Opening) | SS-BS-SS-BS RPDUMP = RS/Deathcoil (Repeat till diseases are falling off)
Multi Target Rotation - DnD-IT-PS-Pest then TAB-SS/Pest/BloodBoil RPDUMP = RS/Deathcoil
**Notes: The biggest advantage I have found in ICC is the ability to use Bone Shield both pre-pull and during tank swaps. Very rarely am I seeing BS only last the minimum of 12 seconds even on fights like Festergut.
So instead of absorbing 1/4th of 1 hit every 2 minutes it now absorbs half of one hit every two minutes. Still seems useless to me.
It's better than a lot of other trinkets. A "last stand" or "battlemaster" effect is almost always more useful, or any other EH on-use effect, but AFAIK it's 6400 damage after DR. Say you have 80% DR (about the right order of magnitude after armor, inspriation, blade barrier, etc.) that means it's 6400 / 0.2 = 32000 incoming damage. Unlike a health pot, it can't overheal either.
**Notes: The biggest advantage I have found in ICC is the ability to use Bone Shield both pre-pull and during tank swaps. Very rarely am I seeing BS only last the minimum of 12 seconds even on fights like Festergut.
I also think bone shield has an advantage over Vampiric Blood or Unbreakable Armor in tank swap fights, but I'm not sure about that 3 second ICD. Here's a WoL snip from when I was tanking Festergut with a 4-bone bone shield:
[21:50:32.360] Faol casts Bone Shield
[21:52:16.422] Faol's Bone Shield fades
[21:52:17.579] Faol gains Bone Shield from Faol
[21:52:17.579] Faol casts Bone Shield
[21:52:26.844] Faol's Bone Shield fades
[21:53:29.688] Faol gains Bone Shield from Faol
[21:53:29.688] Faol casts Bone Shield
[21:53:42.422] Faol's Bone Shield fades
Likely wishful thinking however, it can be quite useful to Deathstrike when you are very sure of a threat lead (such as when you taunt swap and the other tank is also working against the threat, i.e Saurfang or if interrupts are lazy/fails on Lady D) later into that fight.
I've not personally done any actual threat tests though, but I think that gives Deathstrike a nice niche for Unholy.
Speaking of Unholy and Rune Strike; is Necrosis still going to be the best place to dump points? Seeing as how both BCB and Necrosis doesn't proc from Rune Strike anymore. I'm guessing it's still ahead, but.. that particular area of the talent tree feels a bit counter-productive with that RS feature.
I gained about 500 HP on my DK recently because Frost Presence now gives 8% (was 6%) stamina.
Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'
I also think bone shield has an advantage over Vampiric Blood or Unbreakable Armor in tank swap fights, but I'm not sure about that 3 second ICD. Here's a WoL snip from when I was tanking Festergut with a 4-bone bone shield:
21:52:26.844 - 21:52:17.579 = 9.265s
If you got hit a split-second after putting the shield up, and kept getting hit quickly enough that you were riding the 3s cooldown, you could see it last that short of a time:
0s Bone shield up (4 bones)
0.1s get hit (3 bones)
3.1s get hit (2 bones)
6.1s get hit (1 bone left)
9.1s get hit (no bones left)
The old Icebound fortitude nerf from the 3.2 patch notes stated this:
"Icebound Fortitude now reduces damage by 20% instead of 50%. The amount of damage reduced increases with bonus Defense (to about 35% for 540 Defense, but can go higher)."
I've always assumed it took 140 Defense to get the additional 15%, and so 640 Defense would be required to reach 50%.
However, I've got no math to actually back this up and I do have a vague memory about calculations and actual tests being done for Icebound Fortitude's actual effect some time ago.
Sitting at a mighty 595 myself, IBF might just have become a monster cooldown
IBF always was the monster cooldown. Death Pact is two buttons, too little, and generally only useful in situations when you shouldn't need it, AtoD only lasts a few seconds, and the armor of each class can't exactly be called "monster".
The interesting side-effect of the stealthbuff is it favours Frost: The Sta advantage Blood has is now relatively less (11%blood vs 8%frost before 3.3, now 13%blood vs 10%frost) and no prizes for guessing a 18sec IBF is much better than a 12sec IBF.
Looking at Devium's Band in-game I see no reason you cannot equip the Heroic and Normal version of the item? If so equipping both would beat any other combo for effective health.
The interesting side-effect of the stealthbuff is it favours Frost: The Sta advantage Blood has is now relatively less (11%blood vs 8%frost before 3.3, now 13%blood vs 10%frost)...
I don't follow. Here is how I was reasoning:
The Veteran of the Third War talent increases the amount of stamina you get by 3%. Frost Presence used to increase the amount of stamina you get by 6%, and now by 8%.
So, before the buff to FP, Veteran of the Third War combined with FP would increase the amount of stamina by 1.03 * 1.06 = 1.0918. And the difference in stamina advantage between blood and frost would be: 1.0918 - 1.06 = 0.0318.
Now, after the buff to FP, Veteran of the Third War combined with FP will increase the amount of stamina by 1.03 * 1.08 = 1.1124. And the difference in stamina advantage between blood and frost will be: 1.1124 - 1.08 = 0.0324.
Which, if I'm correct, means the stamina advantage of blood vs. frost is greater now than before the change. Or have I missed something?
I'm fairly positive the percentile additions do not work multiplicatively, but additively. Assuming additive functionality, we gain 6/8% from Presence, 2% from Runeweapon enchant and a further 3% from VotTW. making the comparisson
Meaning in 3.2 Blood had a 0.02777 relative advantage, whereas now it has a 0.02727 advantage.Though strictly we're splitting hairs here, it's a 1.8% relative advantage shift. If the stamina buff was multiplicative, Frost would be better than your suggestion, as Nerubian Carapace would apply two consecutive 1.01 buffs rather than Stoneskin Gargoyle's 1.02 single buff in blood. Regardless, it's irrelevant as we've just received a stealth freebie to bring us more in-line with paladins, whom we don't seem to be lagging behind nearly as much. The disparity of percentile stamina increase has now homogenized from 1.14% vs 1.08/1.11% to 1.10% vs. 1.10/1.13%, which is excellent news.
I'm fairly positive the percentile additions do not work multiplicatively, but additively.
I have not tested how the +stamina adds up for DKs, but at least for Paladins the now 4% stamina + 4% stamina + 10% stamina from Kings gives 18.97% more stamina (due to multiplying rather than adding). Since they want tanks to be similar, it should be the same for DKs.
So Blood has 1.1346 and Frost has 1.1017 and then adding in Kings Blood is 1.248 Frost is 1.2118 which means the gap is still the same 3% better stamina scaling.
You can only use one Devium's Band because Heroic/Normal items are flagged unique (they tried that in ToC, but now it works).
Last edited by frmorrison : 02/05/10 at 1:50 PM.
Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'
I agree about the hair splitting. The difference is negligible, but sometimes I just can't help it. I wanted to know how it works, so, I did a little test.
From the character frame (No VotTW):
Stamina without FP, without RotSG = 3498
Stamina with FP, with RotSG = 3852
If multiplicative: 1.02 * 1.08 * 3498 = 3853
If not: 1.1 * 3498 = 3848
I realize the end result differs extremely little between the two ways of calculating, and I'm not sure the difference is big enough to take this as proof of how it works, but it seems you get a more accurate result by calculating the buffs multiplicatively.
Any idea on how IBF scales beyond 540, especially considering the buff how high can it get? (it used to be 20% to 35% reduction at 540 def afaik)
I did some lava-testing today and IBF still scales at 0.15% damage reduction per 1 Defense. Some key points for the lazy:
400 Defense -> damage taken reduced by 30%
540 Defense -> damage taken reduced by 51%
580 Defense -> damage taken reduced by 57%
600 Defense -> damage taken reduced by 60%
630 Defense -> damage taken reduced by 64.5%
I am sitting at 631 Defense as dual wield frost at the moment, without any heroic (of course) loot and still slots with items lower than 264. The buff to IBF benefits frost specs the most, since their IBF is 6 seconds longer. Time will tell of how much importance this will be in the heroic encounters.
I did some lava-testing today and IBF still scales at 0.15% damage reduction per 1 Defense. Some key points for the lazy:
400 Defense -> damage taken reduced by 30%
540 Defense -> damage taken reduced by 51%
580 Defense -> damage taken reduced by 57%
600 Defense -> damage taken reduced by 60%
630 Defense -> damage taken reduced by 64.5%
I am sitting at 631 Defense as dual wield frost at the moment, without any heroic (of course) loot and still slots with items lower than 264. The buff to IBF benefits frost specs the most, since their IBF is 6 seconds longer. Time will tell of how much importance this will be in the heroic encounters.
A key point to keep in mind for those who advocate not gemming for defense once past the 540 def cap. I see you gem
for defense and by sitting at 631 you gained an additional 13.5% damage reduction on a CD you can keep up for 18 secs by being frost. That's huge in terms of both the gain over the baseline you achieve and the number you reach (64.5%).
Yes. It does not however do anything for the huge drop in value Defence sees once you hit the Miss cap of 16%, which given Frigid Deathplate is deceptively simple to reach.
The buff to IBF is interesting, but also a strange buff PvE-wise, in my opinion. It does make more sense for PvP though.
Quite frankly, staying alive while our Cooldowns are on has never been the main problem for me.
It's those gaps between cooldowns during heavy incoming damage that make my damage taken quite spiky and upredictable.
I doubt gemming for Defense at high levels is worth it, even if it provides a more potent IBF. It just doesn't address or tries to diminish our weakness as well as Armor and Stamina does.
02/04/10, 1:51 PM
