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10/12/09, 7:32 PM
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#1921
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Piston Honda
Human Death Knight
Khadgar
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Good point, for high healing threat situations or melee AoE damage on freshly spanwed adds (e.g. multiple mistresses on heroic Lord J) you can sacrifice some long term efficiency for threat right now. Most cases though PS + IT + Pestilence on the main target and a death coil into the other target will hold it.
The original poster just outlined a generic thought experiment so I answered with my usual routine. A Death Coil to the taunt target as it runs in towards you can't hurt either if you have lots of RP at the start of this situation.
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10/15/09, 6:04 PM
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#1922
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Great Tiger
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I had a couple questions about DK vs other tanks in TotGC 25. I saw comments about this a few pages back but wasn't sure if there was a definitive conclusion.
Obviously DK tanks have done every encounter (many in this thread), but have DK tanks noticed any difficulties surviving NRB or any other TotGC encounter where comparably geared tanks had no or fewer issues post 3.2.2?
Is the sentiment expressed by those in my guild about DKs having the worst survivability (typically expressed pally>=druid>war>dk) true to a noticeable extent?
Are there particular stats blood and frost tanks should be shooting for (e.g. 50k HP x parry y dodge etc)?
Is there a preference for a for a particular spec (blood seems more common perhaps?)
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10/15/09, 6:24 PM
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#1923
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Piston Honda
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I tank NRB for my guild, I'm a DPS mainspec but often have to tank NRB in particular. I've not found myself having any significant difficulty with it over our warrior or pally; worm breath and paralytic toxin are mitigated by AMS (I can usually time an AMS cast to the first toxin application when acidmaw is above ground, preventing me from being gibbed if nobody in raid has gotten burning bile yet), impale damage doesn't hit us significantly harder than any other tank, VB on a 1-minute cooldown makes transitions between tanks much smoother than it used to since I can pop it just before taunting to avoid being gibbed by spike damage. I typically gear more towards avoidance than raw stamina and it's worked well for me, I sit around 47K buffed with ~62% avoidance.
For faction champs I respec 2H PVP frost with hungering cold and wear tank gear / go frost presence, and pull by popping it in the middle of their group, then apply frost fever with chillblains specced and pestilence it to as many of them as I can and HC when off cooldown while attempting to stay on the shaman or paladin healers for interrupts. I'm my guild's only DK and doing this has made the encounter much, much easier. Log parses show me taking by far the most damage in the fight, at one point early on spiking at taking 20k DPS from them without issue. Using this strategy makes the fight -predictable- which is the most difficult aspect of it, because the NPCs will generally focus someone random and kill them in the space of a single GCD, but with FF/chillblains and HC applied to a majority of them, their focus is on me much more often making healing predictable while DPS can focus down their target without much interruption.
That said I can't really tout survivability the way a paladin or druid can. Our druid breaks 80K HP with survival instincts / trinkets up, and a paladin's 1-up ability can save a wipe if healers make a mistake. If a DK is tanking and someone makes a mistake, it's more likely going to cause a wipe than if a paladin or druid were tanking, IMHO.
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10/16/09, 1:22 PM
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#1924
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Glass Joe
Human Death Knight
Uldaman
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Does anyone know if Chill of the Throne will be resistable? If it is, then Acclimation and Magic Suppression may be a lot more appealing than they have in the past.
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10/16/09, 2:17 PM
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#1925
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Glass Joe
Human Death Knight
Stonemaul
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For the record, it looks like Chill of the Throne being everywhere in IC is a bug. I'm guessing it'll only be on the last wing or the actual fight with Arthas.
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10/16/09, 5:19 PM
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#1926
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Von Kaiser
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Originally Posted by Illu
Yes wondering this as well, especially seeing as the other tanks got their bonus for singletarget and multitarget skills both. Do they truly expect us to always use DnD? I guess the problem lies in us having three different tank trees. But considering that we deducted a while back that DnD rotations are very close to a more uniform SS rotation, I am guessing this setbonus might push it to mandatory in Unholy tank rotations?
I guess we'll have to wait and see, they seem to be doing the updates in more defined segments for this patch.
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DnD and runestrike are the only baseline tanking abilities we have that are not used for dps as well. Any threat buffs will likely come from a buff to one of them. That said, the set bonus seems a bit more convienent for unholy tanks.
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10/16/09, 8:39 PM
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#1927
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Glass Joe
Blood Elf Death Knight
Sisters of Elune
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Death and Decay is still a useful tool in any AOE tanking situation regardless of spec. Spamming Blood Boil (when Blood specced) is an effective sustained AOE threat generation tactic, but Death and Decay will buy the precious set up time to get that rhythm going. I think that this is a bigger help to Blood Dks that typically struggle in high AOE situations. Sadly it doesn't offer much when MT'ing a single target encounter.
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10/17/09, 5:51 AM
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#1928
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Hand Wind Only
Orc Death Knight
Frostwhisper (EU)
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Originally Posted by Ashenmoor
DnD and runestrike are the only baseline tanking abilities we have that are not used for dps as well. Any threat buffs will likely come from a buff to one of them. That said, the set bonus seems a bit more convienent for unholy tanks.
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Not necessarily; they've shown good creative initiative for set bonuses. If RS and DnD buffing becomes too cumbersome, I wouldn't put it past them to introduce a "your x ability now causes 15% more threat when used in Frost Presence"
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"i like farm pot, even only 1 gold drops from a pot, i will still farm it anyway for nothing just to hear the crisp sound. this is a superb playing style that you can't understand."
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10/17/09, 6:29 AM
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#1929
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Banned
Blood Elf Paladin
Twisting Nether
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Originally Posted by Pintofbrew
Not necessarily; they've shown good creative initiative for set bonuses. If RS and DnD buffing becomes too cumbersome, I wouldn't put it past them to introduce a "your x ability now causes 15% more threat when used in Frost Presence"
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That's the thing though, Blizz has said many times they're not fond of "high threat" attacks, and will likely be even less fond of turning other abilities into high threat. They also don't like the "on next melee" abilities.
There are still some avenues like lowering the runic cost of RS, or perhaps giving it a little extra kick based on diseases.
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10/17/09, 9:18 PM
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#1930
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Piston Honda
Human Death Knight
Khadgar
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Very well then, just make it "your X ability now causes 15% more damage when used in Frost Presence". The only real problem with the set bonus is that other classes get both a single target and AoE damage increase on their most commonly used abilities, while we don't.
I'd rather they just deviate our set bonus from the model used on the other tanks and give a completely different bonus than simply ignoring it.
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10/18/09, 11:16 AM
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#1931
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Von Kaiser
Human Death Knight
Zuluhed
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I agree, but when you deviate from the model is becomes very hard to maintain balance; not that its balanced now. Frankly I would be happier if they gave RS a mini-cleave or something: RS hits up to 3 targets (including the primary) for 10% damage. In single target its a 10% rune strike buff (which has already been done) but also gives a buff to our AoE tanking.
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10/18/09, 3:17 PM
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#1932
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Glass Joe
Human Death Knight
Twisting Nether (EU)
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Originally Posted by Evilbunny
I agree, but when you deviate from the model is becomes very hard to maintain balance; not that its balanced now. Frankly I would be happier if they gave RS a mini-cleave or something: RS hits up to 3 targets (including the primary) for 10% damage. In single target its a 10% rune strike buff (which has already been done) but also gives a buff to our AoE tanking.
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I like the sound of this, but I think if they just increased the damage/threat of both our RS and D&D with the set bonus then it would be fine.
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10/18/09, 6:51 PM
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#1933
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Hand Wind Only
Orc Death Knight
Frostwhisper (EU)
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It'd also go a ways to improving the AoE threat of Blood tanking, which can't be bad.
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"i like farm pot, even only 1 gold drops from a pot, i will still farm it anyway for nothing just to hear the crisp sound. this is a superb playing style that you can't understand."
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10/18/09, 11:24 PM
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#1934
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Glass Joe
Blood Elf Death Knight
Darrowmere
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The 2 piece bonus is rather lack-luster in my opinion considering you can basically get the same effect from specing into Black Ice, or the D&D glyph. I rarely have AOE issues by taking both as a blood tank.
Another 10%? Feels weak comparatively.
I do like that 4 piece bonus however. An extra CD for 12% damage reduction will make a big difference in survivability and handling some of the harder hitting encounters we are starting to see. Especially when it says ALL attacks. I'm assuming this will include magic damage, Meteor Fists, Big Bangs, and whatever Icecrown has in store for us.
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10/19/09, 1:47 AM
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#1935
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Glass Joe
Blood Elf Death Knight
Korgath
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I currently tank for my guild, and I love it. However, it seems that there are more and more reasons to not have a DK stay tanking. The main reason is that we are stuck on 25Man Heroic Anub. We get him to p3 constantly, and probably get him to ~15%. However, my healers are saying that there are times when I take too much spike damage and would like to make that part of the fight less random.
I currently raid Blood, but I am starting to think that Unholy may be worth it for Bone Shield. I have 4p T9.25 and off the top of my head I have around 31% dodge / 23% parry fully raid buffed.
So my question is two fold, is that enough avoidance to make Bone Shield worth it. Along with that, does Bone Shield reduce Leeching Swarms tick? I know that AMS will stop the tick, but is it treated like a DoT where it is reduced in damage but doesn't take the bone shard?
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