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Old 07/03/09, 3:53 AM   #1306
RabbitMaster
Glass Joe
 
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Draenei Death Knight
 
Kirin Tor (EU)
Originally Posted by Gort View Post
As far as I'm aware, yes. A death strike has proven quite effective in accidentally sticking fresh adds to me in various encounters.
Same here. When i was tanking the 3 drakes in Sarth3D, if our feral tank died, Sartharion always come to me because of my superior healing aggro compare to healers probably due to frost presence (but it was with the RIP blood aura + bloodworms + deathstrikes so a lot of self-healing).

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Old 07/03/09, 4:13 AM   #1307
Pitbuller
King Hippo
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Wildhammer (EU)
Originally Posted by Myrx View Post
WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay

Here's a threat break down on me for Algalon using all of my U/F runes on Death Strike regardless of if they're Death Runes or not. As you can see the healing component of Death Strike only accounted for 0.9% of my total threat compared to the 7.3% that the actual Death Strike damage did. Take that for what you will, but Death Strike healing is really not that much threat. I always have better threat when I use my Death Runes on Heart Strikes.
Wowmeteronline don't multiply your healing threath with frost presence modifier. You was also bit unlycky with 85% overhealing.

Slow, slower, shaman weapon.

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Old 07/03/09, 5:32 AM   #1308
Darkonte
Glass Joe
 
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Undead Death Knight
 
Sanguino (EU)
You was also bit unlycky with 85% overhealing.
That is not been unlucky that is your healers having you nearly always at max.

Beside that, i also think that for a tank the healing component on death strike is not that important, not "healingwise" neither "agrowise."

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Old 07/03/09, 7:14 AM   #1309
slackhoid
Glass Joe
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Spinebreaker (EU)
Originally Posted by Darkonte View Post
That is not been unlucky that is your healers having you nearly always at max.

Beside that, i also think that for a tank the healing component on death strike is not that important, not "healingwise" neither "agrowise."
I'd have to say I disagree 100% with the last line. I play unholy tank and my 3-disease Death Strike heals are around ~6.6k. I cannot undestand how instant near 7k heal can be "not that important", specially when you can chain up to 4 of them in a row if needed. In the current content there are so many places where I can/will help my healers (hard modes/speed kills require minimal amount of healers) with that: Hodir's Frozen Blows, Mimiron Plasma Blasts, standing in fire while soloing Ignis constructs and the list goes on.

I can think of numerous situations where we for example have had healer die for some reason and I've managed to stay alive with Death Strike healing (with ERW) and Death pact giving me 100% of my health back in 5 GCDs while a healer has been combat ressed. Of cource such is not needed if everyone always plays perfectly and RNG is never agaist us, but things do go wrong sometimes and for those situations Death Strike healing can be a very powerful tool.

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Old 07/03/09, 2:48 PM   #1310
 Darkside
I find your lack of faith disturbing
 
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Kroot
Orc Death Knight
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by Darkonte View Post
Beside that, i also think that for a tank the healing component on death strike is not that important, not "healingwise" neither "agrowise."
You have obviously never tanked Vezax hardmode, where healer mana is a precious commodity and you need to go out of your way to prevent them from overtaxing themselves. Death Strike is one or the primary reasons (along with IBF) that a DK tank is used so prolifically on that fight.

Originally Posted by Silmeria View Post
See this is how engineers argue! Why the fuck we gotta have 17 page threads on how much Diablo 3 sucks I blame liberal arts majors

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Old 07/03/09, 4:40 PM   #1311
teiglin
Piston Honda
 
Human Warrior
 
Eldre'Thalas
Originally Posted by Pitbuller View Post
Wowmeteronline don't multiply your healing threath with frost presence modifier. You was also bit unlycky with 85% overhealing.
I don't think that much DS overhealing is atypical, especially with high DS usage on a fight like Algalon. Even then, that healing is about a 25% boost to his DS threat (factoring in presence modifier, which, as noted, WMO didn't). In other situations, especially slow-hitting bosses where you can get more effective use out of your self-heals (I sometimes do over 20% of my own healing on XT hard 10m), it provides a lot of threat.

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Old 07/03/09, 7:50 PM   #1312
Pitbuller
King Hippo
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Wildhammer (EU)
Originally Posted by teiglin View Post
I don't think that much DS overhealing is atypical, especially with high DS usage on a fight like Algalon.
If you compare paladin holy light overhealing(78%) to death strike overhealing(85%) you will see my point. Bigger spam heal got lower overhealing so death strike healing was unlucky.
If we look some other Algalon parses we should see trend.
WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay 66.6% over heal.
WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay 57.3% over heal.
WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay 53.5% over heal.
WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay 51.1% over heal.
WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay 66.4% over heal.
WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay 80.4% over heal.
These are all top 25 kills where blood dk have been main tank.

Slow, slower, shaman weapon.

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Old 07/04/09, 11:48 AM   #1313
Zapheara
Glass Joe
 
Troll Death Knight
 
Feathermoon
Been reading a while and I also agree that Death Strike overhealing sometimes doesn't generate the threat but in my opinion in the long run your saving the healers mana. Would be interesting to see a threat comparative of Obliterate Vrs a max healing Deathstrike. If the obliterate comes out ahead might be worth while to play around in frost and pick up some more RP generation for those fights where mana isn't an issue but agro is.

off topic uestion: I have been running as a blood tank for some time now and have yet to see anyone with a talent tree like mine. It seems to work wonderful for me but I want to ensure that it can hold it's on on content past 10mans. Could I get some pointers or advice on my build if it's not to much trouble? My biggest point of contention is that I give up will of the necroplois for Frigid deathplate.

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Old 07/04/09, 12:41 PM   #1314
Rahlar
TheSporkWithin
 
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Troll Warlock
 
Mal'Ganis
Very rarely are you saving the healers mana; rather your heals generally act as mitigation of a sort, helping your healers catch up to large spikes of incoming damage (Fusion punch on Steelbreaker) or times where damage is coming in at an incredibly fast rate (Mimiron's Plasma Blast, regular attacks in Thorim hard mode at 10+ stacks, Hodir's Frozen Blows). Think of it this way: Until the point at which your healers top you off at 100% after such an onslaught, you're essentially gaining a temporary HP buffer equal to the amount you heal yourself with death strike. Of course all DK specs have access to death strike, but I feel that blood's constant use of it, plus the fact that it actually does some pretty fantastic threat, to be one of the build's biggest strengths.

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Old 07/04/09, 6:44 PM   #1315
Aenas
Glass Joe
 
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Blood Elf Death Knight
 
Hyjal
It really does depend on the nature of the fight. Algalon is a very poor case for examining self-healing as threat. Because the damage is high but consistent, healers are able to maintain a fairly constant level of output. As Darkside mentioned, Vezax is a much better example for two reasons: overhealing matters (from the healer's perspective), and the incoming damage is much more streaky.

Here's the log from our first Vezax hard mode on 25man. Note that I did the most healing to myself. I'd be very interested if someone could translate those numbers into threat.

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Old 07/04/09, 8:00 PM   #1316
Zurai
Bald Bull
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Whisperwind
Originally Posted by Aenas View Post
It really does depend on the nature of the fight. Algalon is a very poor case for examining self-healing as threat. Because the damage is high but consistent, healers are able to maintain a fairly constant level of output. As Darkside mentioned, Vezax is a much better example for two reasons: overhealing matters (from the healer's perspective), and the incoming damage is much more streaky.

Here's the log from our first Vezax hard mode on 25man. Note that I did the most healing to myself. I'd be very interested if someone could translate those numbers into threat.
You did 262,608 effective healing to yourself over 513 seconds, or ~512 health per second. Healing threat is 1 threat per 2 effective health restored, so your base healing threat was ~256 per second. According to WoWWiki, Frost Presence's threat modifier is 2.0735; that means your heals generated a total threat of ~531 per second over the course of the whole fight. For the time that the animus was spawned, your healing TPS was halved and applied individually to both Vezax and the Animus (heal threat is divided evenly among every mob that has you on its aggro table).

That's assuming the "Effective Heal" column means non-overheal healing, of course. I'm not familiar with that particular parsing site.

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Old 07/04/09, 10:12 PM   #1317
 frmorrison
Protector
 
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Ashstrike
Human Paladin
 
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Originally Posted by Zurai View Post
That's assuming the "Effective Heal" column means non-overheal healing, of course. I'm not familiar with that particular parsing site.
It does count healing that actually heals. Blood DKs have the highest tps on GV.

Originally Posted by Zapheara View Post
off topic question: I have been running as a blood tank for some time now and have yet to see anyone with a talent tree like mine.
In a game like WoW, if you build is vastly different than anyone else's, you are likely doing something wrong (in this case, you miss a lot of good talents like Will of the Necro and lots of threat talents for 3% melee miss).

Last edited by frmorrison : 07/05/09 at 12:56 PM.

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Old 07/05/09, 4:37 AM   #1318
Mags
Von Kaiser
 
Draenei Death Knight
 
Aman'Thul
Originally Posted by Zapheara View Post
off topic uestion: I have been running as a blood tank for some time now and have yet to see anyone with a talent tree like mine. It seems to work wonderful for me but I want to ensure that it can hold it's on on content past 10mans. Could I get some pointers or advice on my build if it's not to much trouble? My biggest point of contention is that I give up will of the necroplois for Frigid deathplate.
You've made a lot of unusual decisions in your build. My biggest concern would be your threat on high dps encounters: 2/5 Dark Conviction, no Bloody Vengeance, no Might of Mograine, no Blood Gorged. Yet you do find the points for Spell Deflection and Bloodworms. It seems like a fairly "defensive" tanking build. I also wonder if aiming for Frigid Dreadplate in the Frost tree forces you to grab too many filler talents along the way.

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Old 07/05/09, 1:19 PM   #1319
Chamenas
Banned
 
Human Death Knight
 
Icecrown
Would it be considered worth it to use [Glyph of Howling Blast] and provide an alternate multi-tank rotation to:

Multi Target Rotation - DnD-HB-Pest then TAB BloodBoil RP DUMP = RS/FS TAB, etc...

I don't have the HB glyph yet, but I'm considering it. The aggro it throws out, especially if you have Killing Machine procced from the last pull, or Deathchill thrown up, is certainly enough to perhaps consider it at the very least?

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Old 07/05/09, 3:01 PM   #1320
Alk
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Rogue
 
Lethon
Originally Posted by Chamenas View Post
Would it be considered worth it to use [Glyph of Howling Blast] and provide an alternate multi-tank rotation to:

Multi Target Rotation - DnD-HB-Pest then TAB BloodBoil RP DUMP = RS/FS TAB, etc...

I don't have the HB glyph yet, but I'm considering it. The aggro it throws out, especially if you have Killing Machine procced from the last pull, or Deathchill thrown up, is certainly enough to perhaps consider it at the very least?
It works great, very high aoe burst and decent substained.. problem is its very situational. Most occasions where aoe tanking is needed in ulduar there's a constant flow of mobs incoming, therefore unholy is superior.

With the nerf to UB for tanking as unholy, frost with the HB glyph might be the alternative.

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