I went from about 51K HP to ~45K-46K HP (less HP than our warrior tank with Worldcarver equipped in place of the Furious Gladiator Weapon)...Part of this is due to losing stam set bonuses...but those should have been compensated for by the change/buff to the Solid Dragon's Eye (at least in my gear). I also wasn't using my arena 2h'er which is probably 1K more HP. All things considered, i'd say 5k loss in raid buffed HP is about right. I Have 25.5K Armor and 45% pure avoidance (which is about in line with what warriors have...aside from them having block).

This is as blood...not really sure what the loss for frost/unholy would be...though I'd imagine they're ~1K HP behind blood tanks.

We all lost HP in the patch, but we don't all need to post with the before and after values. You can make up a lot of that lost HP by gemming epic stamina gems. The important thing is that we're still very viable tanks. I had no issues solo tanking Hard Mode General Vezax, and that was the fight I was most worried about. Granted that fight is significantly different than it was before he still hits just as hard, and I was never really in danger of dying. The only other challenging fight will be Algalon, but if I couldn't tell a difference on General I doubt Algalon will be much different.

Keep those chins up fellas. We're not dead yet!

Do you tank General without external CDs? Sure it was possible to tank Mimiron and General solo but now i need external CDs, ok before 3.2 they were unused.
As Myrx said Algalon will be hard 4 us now, pre 3.2 you could cycle your CDs and all the time a timer was up now we will take way more DMG/drop harder.

But it's fine! You can tank all the bosses as before, mp5 nerf is a lot harder for our Healers.

Well, for what it's worth, there were two minor threat nerfs to blood specs: bladed armor will be slightly less effective because of the armor reduction, and lower health means your death strikes will heal for slightly less. These changes should be incredibly minor though; I can't imagine that it would be noticeable.

DW tanking feedback, might be of interest to some people.

Test: XT- hard mode one as frost one as blood

We wiped on enrage on one of the attempt - this allowed me to go blood for the next attempt in order to compare with the recent 3.2 FrPres / armour changes.

Character: The World of Warcraft Armory

DW Tanking 13/53/5
Glyphs: Oblit, Rune, HB
Weapons: 2 x slow Naxx 25 tanking weapons with 2 x 2% parry (swordshattering)

Avoidance: 65%
TPS: 5,140
WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay

Main Tanking Build 53/8/8
Glyphs: none
Weapon: Worldcarver

Avoidance: 58%
TPS: 5,312
WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay

Conclusion:
- Obviously blood would have been much higher TPS with glyphs, even so I was not struggling with TPS as frost, but then we did hit the enrage timer so DPS were terrible.
- 7% extra avoidance from the frost spec
- RP generation is much faster but then I do have 3/3 in scent of blood as frost since I am hitting faster, and using more runestrikes I need the extra RP
- I only used 11 more RS as frost than blood, which surprised me. With the extra 4% parry and faster swing time I would have expect much more.
- I was expecting FS ,since it hits with both weapons, to surpass RS in damage and perhaps even threat, I was going to remove RS from my keys and save the RunePower for FS instead, following from the information above I was clearly very much mistaken, and surprised.

Not giving up on the spec, made for some interesting play. More interesting than facerolling as blood.

I used IBF on three of the Surge of Darkness, got a Pain Supression on one, and I believe a Bubble Sac on the other. I still tank Mimiron solo. I ate the third Plasma Blast without a cooldown, and I tank the base and the head in phase 4.

We also did Algalon last night, and I have to say I got far fewer Low Health warnings than I did the week before. Perhaps it's the Chain Heal change, but it felt like I was kept topped off much better than I had been previous weeks. However, everything is clear now, and I tanked everything I normally tank without any issues. Also, for what it's worth, I have 39.8k unbuffed HP now.

If you want to evaluate your personal TPS you should use a tool more designed for it, such as WowWebStats Tps Calculator. Just upload your combat log to WWS and then parse it there. The WMO TPS tool reports MDs and Tricks, which you don't want if you're evaluating specs. You would also gain more out of the tool if you took out the heart phase from the original combat log before uploading to avoid heart phase inflation.

From what I remember, not only does chance to be missed diminish, but it diminishes with a VERY sharp curve since it caps at 16%. As for your other question, I guess the answer is that it will ultimately depend on the rest of your gear. The more dodge you have, the better defense and parry become relative to it. An addon like tankpoints or ratingbuster should be able to tell you just how diminished your avoidance stats are, assuming they've been updated to the new numbers.

To be honest, I don't really see the point in gemming for any kind of avoidance. I don't want to start the old "EH vs. Avoidance" debate...but most DK Tanks seem to gear for stam (myself included). There are rare instances where I need to put a red gem in something, so I throw in a 8dodge/12 stam or something. Otherwise, everything else is just stam. I do agree with you though that 20 defense is probably better avoidance than 20 dodge, or 20 parry. Although, I think this was even the case with 16 def. (prior to the dodge nerf) if you factored in miss.


Also, in the Unholy DPS thread here, they have replaced Scourge Strike with Obliterate. I'm wondering if that's something we should look into as Tanks as well. With the SS nerfs, an Obliterate with 3 diseases may be a better choice for U/F runes.

Something along the lines of this.

After giving me the new figures on dodge and parry (thanks by the way), I updated most of the FAQ already. When I got to that part about avoidance I mused about it in the FAQ.

Where I'm standing, Defense does a couple of things. 1. Makes you unable to be crit at 540 (which we all know), 2. Increases your avoidance through increases in dodge, parry and miss. 3. Increases the amount of damage we reduce by increasing the IBF modifier.

I further mused that stacking defense may become a viable strategy since it takes about 5 less rating of defense to get the same amount of avoidance. On top of this, the increases to our IBF are an attractive side benefit. However I cautioned the reader that the increases are all PRE-DR. Miss does have a DR and it is very harsh since it does cap at 16%. Parry's DR, while not nearly as harsh as Miss, is almost equally noticeable.

I figure that most tanks will find a sweet spot after they stack dodge to a point where the DR on dodge is getting pretty ridiculous. At that point, then stacking Defense might actually be more beneficial.

I do agree that after the health nerf many tanks are stacking stamina (as they probably should). However, those of you with an EH set and an Avoidance set would benefit from knowing what will get you the most out of each.

I'm a bit lost on how that should work. Wouldn't the entire point of taking 10% more frost and shadow damage be to buff SS? Unholy does a ton of Shadow damage, so the talent is great for the tree's entire arsenal, and switching to OB would seem to negate that very advantage.

Would tank gear have enough ArP to meet the break even point? Per the Unholy DPS thread, you'd need 18% penetration before Obliterate begins to outdamage SS.

EDIT: Link didn't work, but post #1014