jimmyolsen

Anyone know what kind of damage reduction 2 points of Toughness is actually worth? If it's bearable, it opens up the option of speccing 47/3/21. Unholy Blight would do a lot for Blood's AOE threat while also providing another RP dump.

You could always steal 2 points out of MOM to max out Toughness if necessary, but it comes at a noteworthy TPS decrease.

 

Asylan

This is back to some Sarth 3D questions

I am the Main Tank for Sarth 3D. I get 41545k health full buffed and pulling. Last night we did around 3 hours of attempts. We keep getting to the twilight torment, and by that point there are usually not enough people alive to keep going. What I'm noticing is that by the time I get to that flame breath I really only have enough CDs to wipe the first TT flame breath, and then need assistance from the healers. Here's my CD rotation, using the OP blood spec said to be the best for Sarth 3D:

No CD for the first flame breath, AMS second, IBF third, trinkets right around here, usually AMS is back up by now, if not I usually end up being healed through a couple FBs, so next would be the same AMS, IBF, then whatever is left. By the time I get to the mind crushing TT FB I use a combo of Lichborne, Mark of Blood, Vampiric Blood, and then hope by this point that my AMS is up again to soak the really bad TTFB.

Anyone have any tips on what i might be doing wrong here? I can definitely survive all the way to TT, and haven't had much practice past that yet.

 

Griefknight

The real reason is because I don't need Death Runes with a IT>PS>DS>HS>HS//HS>HS>DS>DS// rotation and because for AE I usually direct my other tank(s) to do tank the trash pulls. When 3.1 hits and I can spec into Morbidity then I won't really need the other tank(s) to pull all the AE pulls. The Death Runes generated through the Blood tree are used for HS spamming which I don't find optimal for me due to RNG allowing the enemy to avoid most of my attacks since I'm not at 8% hit and I'm not at 26 expertise, Blood is much more dependent then Frost or Unholy on reaching 8% hit and at least 26 expertise.

 

Sinlore

Im in a bit of an argument.

I say that DND has the best threat because of its multiplier, and should always be used to open with on an aoe pack. I.E. DND IT Pest (wait for refresh or blood tap) HB

Guildy says DND is a waste, and should never be used, unless in a rare situation, and that IT --> Pest --> HB (wait for refresh or BT) HB, is better.

He claims his rotation is better because he has gotten feedback from forums and his experiences (wouldnt say what forums when asked).

Keep in mind he is specced for spell deflection 3/5 BOTN etc etc.

I try and try to tell him that DND is good for aoes and he doesnt seem to understand. He also refuses to agree that in an all hit situation, a hit rotation would produce ideal TPS.

I site tankspot and EJ, he says just because a forum says it doesnt mean its fact.

Comments?

 

Griefknight

I would suggest to make sure you aren't attacking during the TT phase besides using BB twice to keep your Blade Barrier up. I'd also suggest trying the Unholy 3D spec, some people find it easier and prefer it over the Blood version so unless you've tried both and prefer Blood then I'd try Unholy.

 

Suno

I find that a PM is more appropriate for that sort of question.

Nevertheless, I prefer the Unholy build. I didn't mean to make it sound like the Blood S3D build was the best build for the encounter, only that it was very capable of it (and doesn't require a respec to tank other content effectively).

You shouldn't be using any cooldowns before Sarth appears shielded and becomes immune to damage, just after the 2nd drake lands. That's when his breaths become capable of 1-shotting you.

Then AMS, IBF, VB/shields/trinkets, and so on.

If people are dead before the first superbreath, that's no fault of your own, and they need to dodge waves/fissures and/or tank adds better.

Edit:
DnD is autotank. A must.

 

huntcaudata

It sounds to me like you're using cooldowns for breaths before Vesparon lands. There's very little reason to do this. You only need to use cooldowns once all of the debuffs are up. It can be helpful, sure, but I would only use them timing them such that they would be back up by vesparon landing.

Edit: your name change continues to freak me out, Suno.

 

Waterboard

I always use DND at the start of pulls, even as a frost tank not spec'd morbidity. plague strike and icy touch can miss and when you still have to pestilence and take even more time to get your threat going, DND is building threat the whole time.

As a frost build my rotation on AE is DND > IT > Pest > Blood Tap > Howling Blast.

Nothing is what it seems, nor is it otherwise.

 

Keste

DnD is an absolute must for AoE rotations. If you go to any of the posts on here or Tankspot you'll notice that all AoE rotations listed in the multiple tanking threads start with DnD as an opener.

Generally anyone who quotes having feedback from anonymous forums are OK for supporting themselves but not others are just close-minded fools.

 

piken

I would say this is only half correct. If you have a KM proc or Deathchill to use with IT->pest already done, DnD is such a minor dps increase from the crit HB to them all that it is not needed.

 

pindle

HB can miss, and it might not hit all mobs. DND does have the advantage of being always on, multiple ticks make 1 resist or miss not a big issue, and has a much, much larger range (even the ~25-30 yards graphics don't depict its actual range well).

 

Durzil

I had thought of something similar that looked like this 50/0/21 Blood.
The armor difference is small in the long run but you could poach points from imp rune tap and put 2 points in it, not having Death Rune Mastery would be a big mistake imo from the build you linked above.

 

CoroHD

Wouldn't 10% increased healing thanks to 2 points in Improved Blood Presence be worth way more than 2/2 improved death strike? Also, I wouldn't be so quick to say the armor difference is small in the long run. I'm not exactly sure how percentage bonus modifying buffs/talents stack, but if you have 25k armor in frost presence the additional 9% armor would not only add 2250 armor, but ~2800 (when raid buffed) due to stacking with inspiration/ancestral fortitude. Personally I think I would rather spend 3 talent points on the extra consistent mitigation rather than a larger situational spot heal.

 

Durzil

You can only really spare 2 points from the build I listed meaning your compairing full rune tap vs 6% armor.

You use death strike in place of oblit so no I dont feel those 2 points can be spared.

On a 10K hit 2800 armor is what 3%? so 300 more dmg on a hit that huge?

That 10% is only in blood stance and seems to me to be for pvp, you do 4% healing from dmg in all stances but that didn't seem important to me as a tank, would prob be nice as a dps tho.

 

DWeidman

Please read the talents - unless you are planning on tanking in Blood Presence...

 

SpookshowTich

EDIT: Please delete, as I misread the post to which I was replying.

 

• Furiosa

I saw this being spoken about in the last few pages, but with a Glyphed Bone Shield (which is basically mandatory -_-) you can survive 4 breaths as unholy, providing you have [Mighty Fire Protection Potion], and use it with bone shield.

IE BS + AMZ (Pop 1 minute JC dodge trinket just in case) then BS + [Mighty Fire Protection Potion].

Minor note, I do have a disc priest on me in 25 man, which might make the difference. I'm also looking at 44.9k health with commanding going into the pull. 10 man it most definitely will help you survive a breath.

 

Bloody_sorcerer

I've been doing sarth (just got our first kill, actually) with anti-magic zone all on its own as a cooldown, and I have yet to die as a result. I also find Bone Shield + x capable of taking a breath, where x is a mighty FR pot, useful trinket, nightmare seed, power word: shield, or similar. Also, it's super easy to get to 225 FR, which *seems* to be (based on the maths in the general resistance in WotLK thread and the druid sarth thread) enough to guarantee all breaths partially resisted at least 20%; 225 is easily obtained using FR hat enchant, FR cloak enchant, lesser flask of resistance, and pally aura/totem.

 

frikena

My guild and I have recently completed this achievement on heroic, I was main tank just like you sitting around 42k before the pull. It took around 3 hours to do using the recommended blood spec (unholy might be better I will try next time). The main thing that you need to do is make sure you do not use a cool down before vesperon lands, and debuff because its possible to pop before the "real" breath and be out a cooldown.

As far as tanking it and the rotation i used for it went about as follows: AMS first, IBF second, third and fourth was with priest buffs and or a pally and around this time my AMS was up for the fifth and IBF soon after to take the 6th. It pretty much came down to rinse and repeat at that point just coordination at that point another thing that you can do is army for a breath its a great emergency cd to use (long 20 min however).

VB as useful as it seems it did not provide enough hp to take a breath (possibly if i brought fire resis pots) and i was missing a on use HP trinket too. hope this helps

 

Samurro

Iam a bit confused right now. Currently I am using mostly stamina gems in my tank gear and enchant Stoneskin Garg on my weapon for even more stamina + 25 Defense. Is that the right way to prepare for Ulduar tanking or should I switch to maximize Avoidance, with Dodge gems?

 

Frostx

Asylan:

I don't pop a single cd at all until Twilight Torment is up. You should only really need to use cds on 3-4 breaths maximum. If Shadron isn't dead by then it means your raid's dps is too low, which is what it sounds like. You definitely need everybody alive (for the most part - i've done it with 2 dps dying just before Shadron dies and we 8manned the remainder of the fight).

 

Zerath

I'm not speaking for everyone but you should have an Effective Stam set, Avoidance, and Max Threat set. This doesn't require swapping *all* your gear but certain pieces (different enchants/gems).

With Max Stam, my Hit/Exp is lower, I still pull a good bit of TPS but it's not where near when I throw on my TPS set w/Hit+Exp (EXP after +Hit capped).

I've started to mingle the avoidance and stam set a little more, so, +Dodge/Stam gems over +24 stams. It's very possible we'll need a High Stam set and a High TPS set. There's numbers in the Avoidance thread where tanks are pushing ~70%+ avoidance prior to cool downs which is rather amazing if RNG doesn't spit in your face.

I.E: Max Stam set = 3dSarth.
Max TPS set = Patchwerk (and all other bosses that come to mind currently.)

 

Suno

The accepted understanding of the bleeding edge content approach (i.e. Kill the boss to get the gear to kill the boss) emphasizes max stam+mitigation. Avoidance is a luxury we can prioritize once we are comfortable with the strats and have determined that the tank can survive several consecutive blows with an avoidance-centric level of stamina.

 

Kaejin

I use VB once Sarth gets the immune shield (or rather the first breath once he gets it). It gives a nice buffer for your healers while he has a strong breath that still isn't quite enough to one-shot you, and it will likely be up again in time for your 3rd or 4th breaths. I save AMS and IBF for Twilight Torment, because that's when you can get smashed into the ground.

I had my healers comment that I was easier to heal and took less damage as Blood spec for Sarth tanking. All the attempts before this one had been using the usual Unholy/Blood hybrid spec. The added bonus of not having to respec to do anything else other than Sarth after we're done is nice as well.

 

Samurro

At first, thanks for the fast reply. So should I stack dodge/sta gems in my avoidance gear and stam in my stamia gear. And for the TPS set, should I just look for expertise + hit cap?