Chainpullz

When you time a death strike and it heals you then you have to figure in the extra heal threat you get for not being topped off at the time. Not sure if that makes up for the time you have to wait but as blood that should be around 7.5k heal threat. Assuming that its doesn't split to nearby adds that is possibly enough threat to justify timing your strikes.

 

Alyse

Healing aggro is only 50% of effective healing done, a 15k DS may be pushing it unless you have VB up. The point is still valid, but consider that you are holding back rune cycling and RP generation by waiting a DS for a melee swing that may end up being dodge/parried.

 

DaveA50

Wouldn't the threat get multiplied due to frost presence?

 

Gort

As far as I'm aware, yes. A death strike has proven quite effective in accidentally sticking fresh adds to me in various encounters.

 

Myrx

WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay

Here's a threat break down on me for Algalon using all of my U/F runes on Death Strike regardless of if they're Death Runes or not. As you can see the healing component of Death Strike only accounted for 0.9% of my total threat compared to the 7.3% that the actual Death Strike damage did. Take that for what you will, but Death Strike healing is really not that much threat. I always have better threat when I use my Death Runes on Heart Strikes.

 

RabbitMaster

Same here. When i was tanking the 3 drakes in Sarth3D, if our feral tank died, Sartharion always come to me because of my superior healing aggro compare to healers probably due to frost presence (but it was with the RIP blood aura + bloodworms + deathstrikes so a lot of self-healing).

 

Pitbuller

Wowmeteronline don't multiply your healing threath with frost presence modifier. You was also bit unlycky with 85% overhealing.

Slow, slower, shaman weapon.

 

Darkonte

That is not been unlucky that is your healers having you nearly always at max.

Beside that, i also think that for a tank the healing component on death strike is not that important, not "healingwise" neither "agrowise."

 

slackhoid

I'd have to say I disagree 100% with the last line. I play unholy tank and my 3-disease Death Strike heals are around ~6.6k. I cannot undestand how instant near 7k heal can be "not that important", specially when you can chain up to 4 of them in a row if needed. In the current content there are so many places where I can/will help my healers (hard modes/speed kills require minimal amount of healers) with that: Hodir's Frozen Blows, Mimiron Plasma Blasts, standing in fire while soloing Ignis constructs and the list goes on.

I can think of numerous situations where we for example have had healer die for some reason and I've managed to stay alive with Death Strike healing (with ERW) and Death pact giving me 100% of my health back in 5 GCDs while a healer has been combat ressed. Of cource such is not needed if everyone always plays perfectly and RNG is never agaist us, but things do go wrong sometimes and for those situations Death Strike healing can be a very powerful tool.

 

• Darkside

You have obviously never tanked Vezax hardmode, where healer mana is a precious commodity and you need to go out of your way to prevent them from overtaxing themselves. Death Strike is one or the primary reasons (along with IBF) that a DK tank is used so prolifically on that fight.

<XI|> if your dog barks do you debate the philosophical reason behind him barking
<XI|> no
<XI|> you say shut up idiot

 

teiglin

I don't think that much DS overhealing is atypical, especially with high DS usage on a fight like Algalon. Even then, that healing is about a 25% boost to his DS threat (factoring in presence modifier, which, as noted, WMO didn't). In other situations, especially slow-hitting bosses where you can get more effective use out of your self-heals (I sometimes do over 20% of my own healing on XT hard 10m), it provides a lot of threat.

 

Pitbuller

If you compare paladin holy light overhealing(78%) to death strike overhealing(85%) you will see my point. Bigger spam heal got lower overhealing so death strike healing was unlucky.
If we look some other Algalon parses we should see trend.
WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay 66.6% over heal.
WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay 57.3% over heal.
WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay 53.5% over heal.
WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay 51.1% over heal.
WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay 66.4% over heal.
WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay 80.4% over heal.
These are all top 25 kills where blood dk have been main tank.

Slow, slower, shaman weapon.

 

Zapheara

Been reading a while and I also agree that Death Strike overhealing sometimes doesn't generate the threat but in my opinion in the long run your saving the healers mana. Would be interesting to see a threat comparative of Obliterate Vrs a max healing Deathstrike. If the obliterate comes out ahead might be worth while to play around in frost and pick up some more RP generation for those fights where mana isn't an issue but agro is.

off topic uestion: I have been running as a blood tank for some time now and have yet to see anyone with a talent tree like mine. It seems to work wonderful for me but I want to ensure that it can hold it's on on content past 10mans. Could I get some pointers or advice on my build if it's not to much trouble? My biggest point of contention is that I give up will of the necroplois for Frigid deathplate.

 

Rahlar

Very rarely are you saving the healers mana; rather your heals generally act as mitigation of a sort, helping your healers catch up to large spikes of incoming damage (Fusion punch on Steelbreaker) or times where damage is coming in at an incredibly fast rate (Mimiron's Plasma Blast, regular attacks in Thorim hard mode at 10+ stacks, Hodir's Frozen Blows). Think of it this way: Until the point at which your healers top you off at 100% after such an onslaught, you're essentially gaining a temporary HP buffer equal to the amount you heal yourself with death strike. Of course all DK specs have access to death strike, but I feel that blood's constant use of it, plus the fact that it actually does some pretty fantastic threat, to be one of the build's biggest strengths.

 

Aenas

It really does depend on the nature of the fight. Algalon is a very poor case for examining self-healing as threat. Because the damage is high but consistent, healers are able to maintain a fairly constant level of output. As Darkside mentioned, Vezax is a much better example for two reasons: overhealing matters (from the healer's perspective), and the incoming damage is much more streaky.

Here's the log from our first Vezax hard mode on 25man. Note that I did the most healing to myself. I'd be very interested if someone could translate those numbers into threat.

 

Zurai

You did 262,608 effective healing to yourself over 513 seconds, or ~512 health per second. Healing threat is 1 threat per 2 effective health restored, so your base healing threat was ~256 per second. According to WoWWiki, Frost Presence's threat modifier is 2.0735; that means your heals generated a total threat of ~531 per second over the course of the whole fight. For the time that the animus was spawned, your healing TPS was halved and applied individually to both Vezax and the Animus (heal threat is divided evenly among every mob that has you on its aggro table).

That's assuming the "Effective Heal" column means non-overheal healing, of course. I'm not familiar with that particular parsing site.

 

• frmorrison

It does count healing that actually heals. Blood DKs have the highest tps on GV.

In a game like WoW, if you build is vastly different than anyone else's, you are likely doing something wrong (in this case, you miss a lot of good talents like Will of the Necro and lots of threat talents for 3% melee miss).

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

Mags

You've made a lot of unusual decisions in your build. My biggest concern would be your threat on high dps encounters: 2/5 Dark Conviction, no Bloody Vengeance, no Might of Mograine, no Blood Gorged. Yet you do find the points for Spell Deflection and Bloodworms. It seems like a fairly "defensive" tanking build. I also wonder if aiming for Frigid Dreadplate in the Frost tree forces you to grab too many filler talents along the way.

 

Chamenas

Would it be considered worth it to use [Glyph of Howling Blast] and provide an alternate multi-tank rotation to:

Multi Target Rotation - DnD-HB-Pest then TAB BloodBoil RP DUMP = RS/FS TAB, etc...

I don't have the HB glyph yet, but I'm considering it. The aggro it throws out, especially if you have Killing Machine procced from the last pull, or Deathchill thrown up, is certainly enough to perhaps consider it at the very least?

 

Alk

It works great, very high aoe burst and decent substained.. problem is its very situational. Most occasions where aoe tanking is needed in ulduar there's a constant flow of mobs incoming, therefore unholy is superior.

With the nerf to UB for tanking as unholy, frost with the HB glyph might be the alternative.

 

Challenge

If you were to drop a particular glyph from the tanking(blood) spec for the DnD glyph, which would it be? Assuming single target boss tanking as a priority, but also additional add pick ups and AoE stuff.

I'm inclined towards the DS glyph, but perhaps the RS one might be a better choice?

 

quietstrm07

Just a real quick question y'all. I've read this thread pretty thoroughly and for tanking Thorim's arena, I've been typically using a frost spec because I spec blood and frost tank. I was finding that the constant stream of aoe was finding gaps in the aoe rotation.

This is a link to my armory

I was wanting to figure out where to adjust points to possibly pick up 3/3 morbidity to help with the constant aoe aggro. I'm pulling the one from epidemic that I was using just to smooth out my rotation a little but am having trouble deciding where to pull the other 2 points from in blood. Which would be less of a ST threat loss because I do enjoy the balance of frost tanking quite well

 

Durzil

I have tried searching but I keep getting an error saying my search is not long enough yet its 4 words.

I'd like to know if might of mograine is considered more ST threat than the last 3 points in necrosis.

So either 2/5 points of necrosis and 3/3 might of mograine

or 5/5 necrosis and 0 points in might of mograine.

Another option would be 3/5 necrosis and 3/3 might of mograine.

I didn't know which would provide more threat as a tank since I only crit around 20% of the time on the attacks affected my might of mograine.

I've always had might of mograine in my blood builds but I've been looking at trying to work necrosis into my build instead of sudden doom and then wondered about this as well.

 

zagor

What I would add is that talents which boost HS are connected and dropping some of them lowers the benefit of others.

Some HS-related talents which could wary between builds:
Subversion
Death rune mastery
Sudden death
Might of Morgraine

I don't have any numbers, but if you had Subversion and DRM, that tips the scale of Necrosis vs. MoM. And a build without Subversion and DRM already puts lower value in Sudden death, MoM also gives less value then. I can't say how that compares to Necrosis.

From some posts I read here and from personal experience, Rune Striking whenever possible can put Necrosis to 1,5% dps per point, and that's a lot. If you have someone to keep the boss slowed (warr or druid) then it's easiest to move 3 points from IIT to Necrosis.

 

Neb_dk

I was in a bad situation, i had to tank vezax and his add.

I had no person to discuss this matter, so i would like to discuss a good (vezax only) spec.

i tried http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...version=10048# and somehow it worked.