Im looking at Scourge Strike in the new build PTR, and thats not accurate. It´s 54% of base weapon damage+855, and 11% increased damage per disease present.

That's probably because you got Outbreak.

45% * 1.2 = 54%

Although that wouldn't quite explain how you get to +855

357 * 1.2 = 428.6

So somewhere you do 2x bonus damage compared to what you should, afaik there isnt a talent that increases it further.

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Anyway it used to be 55% + 437.
However we found that it was always doing 18% lower than usual (there is a post about that a few pages back with calculations)

55*0.82 + 437*0.82 = 45 + 358
Which pretty much perfectly fits the patch notes.

Still wondering how you could get 855 bonus damage though.

Is it possible the sigil bonus is adding directly into the tooltip to get 855? The math doesn't work out, but it's the only other thing I can think of which adds to the bonus damage of SS.

Yes it was indeed the sigil, after removing it I now get 54% + 514. So the sigil is providing an extra 300+ , which I suppose is a bug.

Glyph of diseases just got interesting for unholy...

That's an awkward PvP nerf actually. No more dominant 4x IT ranged PvP builds. I guess it was weird to be a mage in plate.

On Glyph of Disease:

1 less BS = ~2300 damage lost
IT+PS = ~ 4800 damage together
SS Expected damage is ~6800 or a bit less with the DC sigil

The cost of doing IT+PS = ~2000 damage lost per refresh
The cost of doing Pes in a single dps fight = ~2300 damage per 20 seconds

I doubt we will see many Glyph of disease builds pulling ahead. At Least it's more consistent though right? Too bad doing IT+PS every 20 seconds would be more DPS than losing a BS.

Every. 20. Seconds.

With the Glyph of SS you can have strings of refreshes mitigating the damage loss of the occasional IT+PS.

Are we in GCD trouble all of a sudden?

Unholy 2h has plenty of free GCDs. That seems like a very bad investment to me and everyone else.
Plus you only refresh when the diseases have fallen off, so no use for that glyph.

I personally also prefer the RNGish playstyle of the glyph of Scourge Strike.

And like methods said, its probably either better, or close enough to let it come down to preference.

Reposted from Unholy Thread in an attempt to stay 'on topic'

Context: Debate between the new Awareness and the new DC/FS sigil for 51/1/19 blood dps.

Ok here is my math:

Incoming Wall...

Assumptions:
Avg Weapon damage = 2626.79
MCrit = 43.1%
SCrit = 41.9%
MDodge+miss = 3.3% or 96.7% Hit
Spell Hit = 100%
AP Average (after procs etc.)= 7186ap

DS damage calculation:
2 DeathStrikes per 20 seconds

(WPN*.75+222+(sigil 315))*(1+(mCrit +0.6(ImpDS))*modifier(1.45%)*1.03(meta))*1.1(BG)*1.3(Imp DS)*1.09(BV)*1.15(BP)*1.25%(DS Glyph assuming perfect RP)*Armor*Hitchance

(2626.79*.75+222+315)*(1+(49.1%)*1.45*1.03)*1.1*1.3*1.09*1.15*1.25*.72*.967

DS = 6835.6 avg expected damage
DS damage per rotation = 13671.2
DS damage without awareness = 11953.49

Total difference of 1717.697

DC damage calculation:
3 DC per rotation + (6 HS's*15% chance to proc a DC) = 3.9 DC's per rotation

(APcoef*avgAP+Base(443+380sigil))*(1+(sCrit+5%2pT8)*1.03(meta))*1.1(BG)*1.15(DCglyph) *1.15(Morb)*1.13(EP)*1.15(BP)*Hitchance(100%)*.94(partial resists)

(0.15*7186+443+380)*(1+(46.86%)*1.03)*1.1*1.15*1.15*1.13*1.15*100%*.94

DC = 5008.32 avg damage
DC * 3.9 per 20 seconds = 19532.448
DC without Sigil = 15627.83

Difference of 3904.646

DPS Gain for Awareness = 85.88
DPS Gain for DC sigil = 195.23

Let me know if you see any mistakes.

At 3.9 DC's per rotation the new sigil should be better. I don't have Sudden Doom implemented, but at 3 DC's Awareness is equal.

Looking at the higher RP consumption DRW will require with only a 90 second cd i got numbers of only about 2.3-2.4 DC per rotation rather than 3. Of course the sudden doom amounts remained the same netting 3.2-3.3 total DC.

Haven't read that, do you have a source? As it is right now, I'm having a lot harder time getting my hands on a good 2H rather than 1 handers. Warriors don't use 1-handers anymore, most raids only take 1 shammy as well... I don't see that being any part of their reasoning.

From GC at World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> DW Entirely Dismantled - Intended?

Yesterday I tested several builds on PTR. On live I'm Unholy from lv55 (with few episodes of Blood, Frost and DW). In my opinion Unholy is now far far behind Frost and Blood, especially Blood with Ghoul. On every build I changed glyphs and hits Boss dummies for atleast 10 minutes and usinge every ready CDs. I selected my gear depends of build, for all builds I get hit and expertise cap when I tested unholy and frost I focus more on str when tested Blood I focused mostly on ArP.


My tests:
1. "Old" Unholy 17/0/54 dps: 2654
2. Unholy 0/10/61 dps: 2852
3. "Old" Blood 51/13/7 dps: 2937
4. Frost 3/52/16 dps: 3147
5. Blood 51/2/18 dps: 3301

Of course Target Dummies aren't very representive but with buffs and debuffs (sunders/expose armor/ff/snare) blood scale better.

I dont know about you guys, but I feel that frost is so dependant on abilities critting. As such I see

21-50-0 as better than the 3-51-x even a ghoul pet

what do you guys think? I feel a lot of calculations are not taking into account crit/not critting abilities to theorycraft on real dps atteignable.

Yup I considered this and I believe it will not change differences between builds because:
- Unholy/Frost can gets +10% more ap
- Unholy/Blood can gets +20% meele haste
- Blood/Frost can gets +13% magic dmg and +30% dmg from disease
- Blood can gets "snare" which means +20% dmg from Heart Strike

For me still looks like Blood atm scale much better, but it's my opinion.

Well from PTR testing Patchwerk, Blood is atm clearly ahead on such type of bosses of all the speccs. Also i dont see blood getting more self buffed than Unholy. 10% more ATP is not all 10% more damage, but Unholy has a lot of spelldmg.

I suppose that Unholy still has the best self buff of all the "common speccs" or at least profits less than deep blood and deep frost from raid buffs. The biggest advantage is that the ghoul has a much higher chance to survive while Blood and Frost (if they specc for it) will often lose that damage boost due to too much aoe damage.

Blood and Frost wont get the +30% disease damage, that is an unholy only feat.
Unholy and Frost clearly benefits the least from their own selfbuffs.


IMO thats a flawed reasoning. The thing is, without the ghoul unholy dps is way lower than bloods or frosts, the ghoul is factored into unholy dps.

Too often do I see people saying that, "Unholy dps should be lower, because unholy still has a ghoul".

You forget that while for blood / frost the ghoul is a damage boost, for unholy its a core part of their dps.
Thats one of the reason I'm kind of surprised and annoyed by the fact that blood and frost now have easy access to a permanent ghoul. Totally stripping unholy of its trademark.

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Anyway don't forget that +10% AP for unholy is a pretty huge feat. If you consider impurity, spells gain an extra benefit from more AP, and the pets also gain full benefit from the AP increase.
Same goes for +20% haste, while for most specs haste is "lesser" stat, Unholy pets gain full benefit of the increased haste.

In the end Unholy probably benefits the most of the buffs blood and frost provide.

PS.
Did you try the new unholy build yet on PTR ?
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
(or possibly switch 3/3 morbidity for 3/3 BCB)

The old build is less viable with the new desecration, and Methods spreadsheet in the unholy dps discussion showed this spec, to be higher than the 0/10/61 spec.
(Although the spec including black ice probably scales better)

I've been working on a DW DPS build for post 3.1.

Considering many of the changes. It's a tri spec. (semi new to theorycrafting so any advice is useful) By all means, let me know what you think.

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (not very good with linking, copy/paste if you will.)

15/13/43

Are you sure? Becasue tooltip of Crypt Fever says
"Your diseases also cause Crypt Fever, which increases disease damage taken by the target by 30%."

For me it looks like all diseases.

Even non-DK diseases are affected by CF. Just ask your local Shadow Priest.