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Old 02/13/09, 12:03 PM   #16
Krag
Don Flamenco
 
Tauren Druid
 
Runetotem (EU)
Thanks for doing the list.

[Horn-Tipped Gauntlets] drops in Gundrak heroic and you might get those before getting exalted with Kirin Tor (since most wouldn't pick that faction to work on early).

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Old 02/13/09, 12:23 PM   #17
Griefknight
Banned
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Detheroc
Originally Posted by Gukreb View Post
I do not want this to devolve into yet another 'which gem is best' discussion thread. So I am keeping the ones already listed. At least until a consensus has been reached elsewhere by the theory crafters. Any further discussion here will be discounted for the purposes of this thread, though it is important to note that the discussion is still unsettled.
Do you honestly think people would use there sockets like that? The gems you use are based on what you want or need. The only gems you should be using are 8exp/12stam, 8hit/12stam, 8def/12stam, 24stam, 16hit, 16exp, or 16def. There are no encounters in WoTLK that benefit from stacking avoidance gems. You should have more then enough avoidance from your gear. I'm not trying to start "Which Gem is Best" but no one should be using 16 dodge gems over x/12stam.

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Old 02/15/09, 8:15 AM   #18
rutiene
Piston Honda
 
Blood Elf Warlock
 
Deathwing
I find it interesting that the Titansteel Destroyer is listed as only being better than a quest green axe. Is there a particular reason for this?

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Old 02/15/09, 12:41 PM   #19
 Bryne
The Treachery of Forums
 
Bryne's Avatar
 
Pandaren Monk
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Gukreb View Post
I do not want this to devolve into yet another 'which gem is best' discussion thread. So I am keeping the ones already listed. At least until a consensus has been reached elsewhere by the theory crafters. Any further discussion here will be discounted for the purposes of this thread, though it is important to note that the discussion is still unsettled.
It's also important to note that if you're going to keep a "quick reference guide for new players" like this thread is, you should actually keep it updated with good information. If you're going to suggest socketing a gem that doesn't even exist in game currently, maybe someone else should take over the OP.

If the OP is only going to suggest one or two gems for new players to put into their pre-raid tanking gear, it should be exp/stam or dodge/stam. You should additionally suggest the [Austere Earthsiege Diamond] as the quick reference meta gem for completion's sake, whether or not you're unwilling to "take sides in the meta debate".

Last edited by Bryne : 02/15/09 at 12:52 PM.

Originally Posted by Fric View Post
If he'd done that in Boston they'd have let him off with time served and 10 days community service signing autographs at Jillian's

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Old 02/15/09, 3:13 PM   #20
Griefknight
Banned
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Detheroc
I realize the ratings are from Rawr but the Colossal Skull-Clad Cleaver is the best pre-raid weapon for orcs and the Titansteel is best for the other races. The Seal of Pantheon is only worth it of you aren't def capped from straight gear/gems which is sad considering the 25 defense runeforge. There is also no way the Woeful Band is better then Gal'darah's Signet or Dragonflight Great-Ring. I'd probably take the badge belt over the H AN belt too. I really hope no one would actually take PvP gear over PvE gear either.

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Old 02/15/09, 6:39 PM   #21
Trifle
Piston Honda
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Cenarius
Originally Posted by Bryne View Post
If the OP is only going to suggest one or two gems for new players to put into their pre-raid tanking gear, it should be exp/stam or dodge/stam. You should additionally suggest the [Austere Earthsiege Diamond] as the quick reference meta gem for completion's sake, whether or not you're unwilling to "take sides in the meta debate".
Given the recent revelation that the 2% reduced spell damage doesn't actually reduce spell damage by 2% (it instead increases your resistances from items - not including buffs or enchants - by 2%), I wasn't aware that there was a meta debate anymore.

That being said, I use frost when I tank, and due to most instances involving fighting lots of mobs at once until you get to the boss (and sometimes during the boss), most of my rune expenditure is on things like d&d, howling blast etc.. any my runic dump is frost strike, which doesn't need expertise for obvious reasouns. In light of that, is gemming for expertise even worth it ? I've got 27k hp unbuffed, which is more than fine for instances, so I was just gemming for avoidance to lessen the load on my healer as he's a fairly fresh lvl 80.

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Old 02/16/09, 12:22 AM   #22
Gukreb
Glass Joe
 
Troll Mage
 
Zul'Jin
Bolera -
The Argent Skeleton Crusher was considered, but not added. Since it is behind the other weapon on the list, except for the quest green, and is only a very slight upgrade to it. The Betrayer's choker is pretty far behind the other listed items, but may be a good choice for someone trying to get Def capped.

Krag -
Horn-Tipped Gauntlets took the place of Gauntlets of the Water Revenant. But i left the TS and quest items to have a few easy to get items in the upgrade path.

Gem discussion.
No I do not think anyone would use the gemming selection I have made here for comparison purposes. What I think is until +540 Def everyone should gem +16 Def in every socket. After that it becomes more complicated. If you have a lot of avoidance from other pieces someone might want to gem for Sta. If they have a ton of Sta they may need the avoidance more. Trying to model this in a one size fits all list is pretty much impossible, which is why I made the decision to fill gems the way I did.

However I did update the list to include only gems available in game (woops), and to include the Austere Earthsiege Daimond as the Meta gem of choice.

Weapons
The ordering of the weapons remember only has to do with their contribution to tanking stats (ignoring threat generation) as discussed in the first post, NOT their overall value. Which is why the green item did so well. Since it is the only weapon there that has +Def. If we assume overall value then of course the item order will shift a lot, not to mention a lot of other items as well. But the point here is to help those people trying to: 1) Get Def capped. 2) Get the Hp and mitigation necessary to start tanking in raids. To those ends threat has to take a back seat to survivability and the DPS may just have to scale back a little untill the tank gets a few upgrades.

PVP Gear
Yes Resiliance sucks compared to Defense. But it can also be one of the fastest ways to get Def capped. Since it helps to push Crits off the table as well. No it doesn't give the other advantages of Def, but for those people still trying to get Def capped it can be pretty easy to get gear. And the Hands for instance would fall just behind the Fireproven gloves without its resiliance. Due to its impressive amount of Sta, Str, Hit, and Dodge. In fact the Horn Tipped Gauntlets (now number 3 on the list) only beats the Heroes' in Def and that only by 5 points, compared to a loss of 14 Sta, 13 Str, 38 Dodge, AND a gem socket. In other words, the PVP gear stays and while it may not be the best gear running it is still pretty good intro stuff.

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Old 02/16/09, 9:32 AM   #23
Hemfive
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Death Knight
 
Aggramar (EU)
Ring: [Keystone Great-Ring] from The Prophet Tharon'ja in Drak'Tharon Keep heroic

I also suggest to enchant your Wrist with: [Formula: Enchant Bracer - Major Stamina]

[Sigil of the Unfaltering Knight] is the link for the Sigil

Last edited by Hemfive : 02/16/09 at 9:47 AM.

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Old 02/16/09, 10:38 AM   #24
Arafela
Glass Joe
 
Human Mage
 
Moonglade (EU)
For Ring: Solid Platinum Band ( The World of Warcraft Armory ) as Quest reward. Easy to obtain and decent stats for such a low level item.

Also as Ring option: The Green JC crafted ring with the gem slot. Forgot name. Have used it a long time till patch due to the +def gem in it.

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Old 02/16/09, 12:26 PM   #25
 Bryne
The Treachery of Forums
 
Bryne's Avatar
 
Pandaren Monk
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Gukreb View Post
No I do not think anyone would use the gemming selection I have made here for comparison purposes. What I think is until +540 Def everyone should gem +16 Def in every socket. After that it becomes more complicated. If you have a lot of avoidance from other pieces someone might want to gem for Sta. If they have a ton of Sta they may need the avoidance more. Trying to model this in a one size fits all list is pretty much impossible, which is why I made the decision to fill gems the way I did.
Nobody has "a ton of Sta" in pre-raid gear. This isn't the ultimate DK tanking gear list, this is a quick-reference guide for new 80s starting out with shitty gear looking for their first upgrades. When you take the intended scope of this list into account, recommending that anyone fill red sockets with +14dodge over +8dodge/+12stam is stupid.

Originally Posted by Fric View Post
If he'd done that in Boston they'd have let him off with time served and 10 days community service signing autographs at Jillian's

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Old 02/16/09, 1:23 PM   #26
Unsubtle
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Death Knight
 
Shadowsong (EU)
Not sure how you calculated the values and prioritization orders on the weapons, but they are wrong.

As is generally agreed, Threat generation on a weapon is a far better judgement value then Avoidance.

There is no way [Saliva Corroded Pike] is better then Titansteel destroyer? Lower Max damage, less hit, less strength and only slightly more stamina.

Please check before blindly posting.

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Old 02/17/09, 5:58 PM   #27
sp00n
Bald Bull
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Wrathbringer (EU)
And he clearly stated in the OP that threat is ignored in this list, so please first read before blindly posting.

Relative stat values given by rawr (threat generation value has been ignored):

Stopped Playing

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Old 02/18/09, 1:10 PM   #28
Griefknight
Banned
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Detheroc
Originally Posted by sp00n View Post
And he clearly stated in the OP that threat is ignored in this list, so please first read before blindly posting.
I would like to know why threat generation is being ignored, it is a key factor to tanking and shouldn't ever be ignored.

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Old 02/18/09, 1:38 PM   #29
sp00n
Bald Bull
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Wrathbringer (EU)
Because this is a specific list for a specific purpose, namely reaching the most avoidance and crit immunity pre Nax.

People who tank with [Axe of Bloodstained Ice] and then wonder why they do not generate enough threat will find other ways to ruin their character anyway.

Stopped Playing

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Old 02/18/09, 4:08 PM   #30
Unsubtle
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Death Knight
 
Shadowsong (EU)
I did read, however, surely taking the avoidence of a 2H weapon is fully pointless. No one in their right mind would choose that order of weapons, with the possible exception of [Axe of Bloodstained Ice] if they are really really really lacking in defense.

Although labelled clearly, some common sense must prevail in making a "Pre-Raid DK Tank Gear" list.

Had the title been written as "Pre-Raid DK Avoidance and Crit Immunity at all costs Gear" list, I could understand, but in this current case, I cannot.

EDIT: Also, why the use of [Perfect Subtle Bloodstone] over [Subtle Scarlet Ruby] ?

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