I have no picture for my DPS Test, but i tryed a 21 50 0 build without HB in unholy pres.
I used the old simple Rotation like this:

#1: OB, OB, BS, BS, BT+uA (macro), 3x FS
#2: 6x IT, 3x FS

Sigil: the "new" IT sigil

My test was over 3min with a result of 3k DPS.
My RP growth(hope the right english word ) wasn't normal. I couldn't use 3 FS after 1 cycle.

/edit:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...5&version=9614

Main reason I don't use oblit as much is for 2 runes it crits for 6-7k, whereas the combo of 2 IT is 6k-11k (Depending on how many crit). So say I hit Oblit for 5k followed by crit (KM) FS for 7.5k I've done just under 13k. Instead I throw two IT, one crits from KM totaling about 8.5k, then a FS non crit for 4.5k I'm still at 13k, maybe a little higher or lower depending on how many total crits I get while using the same runes as Ob + FS.

The main difference I see here is not having to worry about saving abilities, instead just getting in a smooth cycle, knowing exactly when to hit my FS / Rune based abilities. Then I have zero hesitation and zero downtime on specials. It may not be the best way to play, but it's a VERY forgiving rotation for those fights when you have to move a lot and might not be in range when you need to hit FS / OB.


Also, since I am new to posting here, please go easy on me and my ignorance Buffs I had at the time were Merciless Combat (Dummy was at 1%) so I did get the bonus damage which I know would have added a great deal of damage. Also, blood and Unholy would get Icy Talons / WF totems so they would see an increase in DPS as well. However, since I raid with a blood Dk (usually) we try to get an even spread on buffs so our Shaman doesn't need to spend all 7 talents to make up for buffs the two of us include in normal builds.

I tested out this spec 18/51/2 and found it to be insanely powerful. I am wearing full PVP gear since I don't PVE much on my DK, and I still managed to do 3350 DPS over 16 minutes on the level 80 dummy without merciless combat or any other other debuffs. I was in Unholy Presence and used Rune of FC.


I basically did:

OBL over everything when I had F + U active
FS over IT during the IT spam when I was over 90 RP, make sure you dump all RP before IT spam starts.
HB when Rime procs but only if all runes on CD
UA+Blood Tap for 6 UA'd ITs + UA'd FS's

One thing you have to watch for is not to IT when F rune is active or it will screw up your OBL rotation. Also I didn't try to use my KM procs on FS since this spec is all about keeping the Death runes flowing and that would mess up the rotation pretty badly.

I can't even imagine how much damage I would do if OBL gave me more than 5 RP or if I had some PVE gear><

Yeah, pretty much same deal I posted earlier... and with the added RP once fixed it should be even better. Hopefully more people will test out this spec and give it a go.

Your glyphs?

I would guess OB, FS an Ghoul.

3/51/17

Wraith Spear, Sigil of Awareness and 4pcT7. Runic Power from Oblit no bugged, Blood Strike --> Death Runes ok.

Have low hit due to change to 4pcT7..

Dps on Dummy Boss.

Buffs: Horn of Winter, UA with Blood Tap when rdy.

Rotation:
PS, IT, OB, BS x 2,(BT+UA when rdy), FS x2
OB, FS, OB, OB, FS FS

Glyphs: OB, FS, IT

3099 DPS with bad itemization(gear for 33/38 from 3.09 and bad 2H weap itlvl 200)

I just had a ton of fun with 20/51/0 in Unholy Presence. For what it's worth my target dummy dps was around 3200, but that is with:

• None of the right glyphs
• The wrong sigil
• No cooldowns or buffs other than HoW
• No ghoul
• Wrong enchant
• Clumsy rotations
• Edit: HA! And just realized I hadn't trained Frost Strike was still using rank 1.

I actually use priority queues, not rotations, but my general approach was:

1. HB whenever Rime procs
2. Try to use KM on FS, not IT (need practice on this; punching IT so fast that I miss a lot of KM procs)
3. IT with all Death Runes
4. Oblit with UF pairs
5. Ignore PS and Blood Plague

Frost Strike was my single largest damage source, followed by IT. All those IT's are nice because they proc the free HBs.

Even without IT and FS glyphs I was using just about every single GCD. Replacing some of the Oblits with IT/PS would use another GCD, possibly do more damage, and buff the following Oblit, but with the right glyphs I would definitely be GCD maxed at that point. So, questions for this group:

1. What do you think about working in PS?
2. Alternately (or additionally) what about replacing Oblit with HB? By getting rid of Oblit completely I could ignore T7.5 set bonuses completely and just equip best-in-slots.
3. If I do get rid of Oblit, what should the 3rd Glyph be? Ghoul?

Edited for formatting.

1. My testing has shown PS to be a damage loss for all the deep frost specs I've tried, though this is probably a total of 20-30 min of dummy testing, so ymmv.
2. Even without T7 and awareness and with only one disease, my OBs are still competitive with HB--higher crit rate, same RP generation, and for your rotation, you have to OB anyway to generate death runes for IT spam.
3. Ghoul would be good for unholy subspec though of course that doesn't work for ITx6. I also never tried PS with 3/3 outbreak and PS glyph, so that might make it worth it (though I strongly doubt it). Honestly, just stick with obliterate.

Ah, right, of course. Thank you.

I can't wait to try this out with all the right enchants, glyphs, sigils, etc.

Too bad Hodir is so frosty.

Just an FYI, your HB was obviously hitting multiple dummies.

Is this for unholy or standard blood subspec? Even if the raw dps comes out behind for glyphed permaghoul, the glyph does increase your ghoul's health, so it might be worth giving up a third of an FS per cycle for increased ghoul survivability, assuming that the extra health will keep him alive in some instance.

edit: just double checked on ptr, my glyph of the ghoul is identical to live version.

Both, actually. As with everything else, YMMV, but Glyph of Ghoul is only worth 30 DPS or so (to me) whereas OB is worth 60, IT 90, and FS 140 in the Perma-Ghoul spec; it's really scary how much damage you can lose by dropping your RP production even slghtly :-/.

I know and that would reduce overall damage by like 3%.

On a side note I noticed that I'm not getting Death Runes from BS anymore, wtf?

You need to reset your talents in order to work fine, when PTR update etc, some Death Rune Talents dont work. Maybe other talents neither work. Respect and all fine again.

Why isn't 20/51/0/UP in the OP? Has that been conclusively shown to be sub-par dps? Is there perhaps another Frost thread that discusses this?

It's there; look again.

Edit: Wait, why would you *ever* go 20/51 for PvE in 3.0.9? The build is 21/50 with 3/3 DRM rather than the other 3 filler I have listed.

@Yater:

IT PS BS BS (etc) is low dps because you're sacrificing FU runes rather than B runes; you MUST use Ds to IT & PS or you're sacrificing damage, mostly in the form of lost RP and KM opportunities, even if it doesn't seem so.

DS in frost bulid rotation with 3/3 Anihilation ?? Youre in wrong forum...

@Yater

Yes, that is the bulid i use on PTR and IMO its currently best one for frost for now - (around 3100 - 3400) dps on dummy buffed only with HoW (+ trinket 1k ap proc and FC rune)

Ds in context implies Death Runes, not Death Strike.

I meant 3.1.

As Neuron mentioned above, "D" or "Ds" is a Death rune; "DS"--note the capitalized S--is Death Strike.

Additionally, as I mentioned before--both in the 3.1 OP and my previous post--13/51/7 is right, IT PS BS BS is wrong; possibly up to 500 DPS wrong. In fact, with a dummy less than 35%, you would indeed do 3.1-3.2k with IT PS BS BS; however, you would do 3.8-3.85k DPS with iT BS OB OB | PS BS OB OB.

I'm not wasting my time by putting useless info into the two OPs--they are up to date and will be as full of solid info as I can make them because I honestly don't have enough free time for fluff. So, with that said, check the OPs often in times of frequent change; it'll save everyone tons of time and is the whole point of making a new thread.

-----

Addendum: If 20/51 can hit 3500 dps on a dummy with it's bread & butter rotation, I'll add it; however, I'll need the rotation as well. 3100 DPS in a mix of T7/7.5 and an iLvl 213 weapon isn't quite enough to cut it when theory says that we're sitting on a 3800 cycle with the same gear.

I am in fact hitting 3500 dps with 20/51 in Unholy Presence, although the number wanders up and down because I'm new at Frost and am still pretty clumsy at it. Honestly, with 1.0 second GCDs I'm still flailing away at buttons and using more of a priority system than a rotation, but in general B gets used for BS, UF gets used for OB, and D (lots of those) get used for IT. HB when Rime procs, try to use KM procs on FS instead of IT (or HB if you can), but that's actually really hard...a good swing timer would help. And lots and lots of FS.

Open: Blood Tap -> IT -> OB -> OB -> BS -> (this is where I'm still trying to figure out best option; using DRW -> OB -> OB -> OB which works but you end up maxed out with RP)
Normal: OB -> OB -> BS -> BS -> FS+ | IT -> IT -> IT -> IT -> IT -> IT -> FS+
again, interrupt rotation to FS or HB depending on procs.

I actually prefer to get my OBs and BSs out of synch so that each cycle has 3 IT's, 1 BS, and 1 OB. Spreads out the Rime procs. But, again, right now it's so chaotic that I get there accidentally rather than intentionally.

I encourage everybody to spend the 50g on the PTR (it's pretend make-believe money) and try this spec out. If nothing else it's a ton of fun mashing buttons.

EDIT: I must be getting better at this because last night I was sustaining 3900 and drifting over 4000 with no cooldowns (e.g. blood fury, unbreakable armor, ghoul, etc.). However I did have the Razorice enchant which others are reporting is bugged and proccing a lot of KMs.