Glyphs: HB OB FS
Sigil: Sigil of Awareness (haven't had any luck yet)
Rotation: HB OB FS BS BS > OB FS OB FS OB FS (HB on Rime)
(Sometimes I would start with IT instead of HB. Since unfortunately HB applies FF AFTER the damage)
AMS used to mitigate incoming damage and for Runic Power gain.
I found myself alternating between UP and BP throughout the fight depending on how stationairy i would be.
UP for mobs that would die within ½ to 1 rotation for burst and otherwise BP for longer fights.
Worth to note is that the Yogg-Saron fight is incredibly mobile. You need to move all the time until the late phase 3.
And you also have a damagebuff like some other fights in Ulduar unless doing it hardmode. But the competition shows us on the rise my brothers and sisters.
As you can see from the log, Frost has got really nice potential. We have some incredible burst (i would sit with 6-7.5k dps throughout all of phase1) and also a reliable sustained damage along with immense AOE-capabilities. I can't wait to get my hands on the new sigil and the mace from Yogg (which unfortunately didn't drop yesterday).
The thing about frost is that Ulduar allows it to excel in several situations. HB is weaker than it was before, but used far more often.
Flame Leviathan: not applicable
Razorscare: used during all of air phase
XT: used to kill Scrapbots when needed
Ignis: splash damage on adds, but you can also assign a Frost DK to shatter on KM procs without losing dps on Ignis.
Council: no real use
Kologarn: excellent damage uptime on both the boss, the arm and rubble.
Auriaya: incredible effectiveness on all 3 types of adds
Hodir: good efficiency on flash freeze
Freya: excellent on 2 kinds of adds
Thorim: insane on Phase 1
Mimiron: insanely efficient on Phase 4
Vexxas: no real use
Yogg: amazing in phase 1
And this is where the HB glyph excels, it allows to maintain aoe damage at no loss in single target dps. That's the strength of Frost atm. It doesn't really do aoe damage, it's more splash damage which allows you to keep very high aoe dps while still nuking your target, similar to warriors.
With the T8 4-piece bonus the damage of obliterate will increase and we'll be able to comfortably use blood presence over unholy presence since we won't have to dump as many frost strikes. With the damage bonus on obliterates and the 15% damage increase from blood presence my guess is that T8 will be at the very least equal to T7 in terms of overall damage.
This is a theory that will require extensive math but I have a gut feeling it'll come out positive.
Now that we got in to the matter of T7 vs T8 bonus one question raised up on my mind. The bonus of the set states that it increases all the damage by blood strike, heart strike, obliterate and scourge strike by 20% per disease.
Now only by thinking with common sense without using any math on this we can honestly say that with this bonus frost dps will most likely die completely among the death knights. Because blood spec dk's are basicly spamming heart strike all of the time and its their main DPS spell and a even a thought of unholy DK's who have 3 diseases in their arsenal spamming SS away all the time makes me scared of the future.
We get the bonus to a spell what is roughly about 20% of our DPS when 2 other trees gets the bonus in spells what is almost half of theirs + unholy's 3rd disease.
I honestly think that it's not thought completely trough to be equally good set bonus for frost DPS dk's, since our main dps spell supports high RP generation what the inferior T7 set provides.
On the same note, it could be argued that the 2t8 and new Sigil boosts frost more than the other two trees, as we FS so often, it's cheaper with the glyph than DC, and we don't have Gargoyle/DRW/UB to spend RP on.
Now that we got in to the matter of T7 vs T8 bonus one question raised up on my mind. The bonus of the set states that it increases all the damage by blood strike, heart strike, obliterate and scourge strike by 20% per disease.
Now only by thinking with common sense without using any math on this we can honestly say that with this bonus frost dps will most likely die completely among the death knights. Because blood spec dk's are basicly spamming heart strike all of the time and its their main DPS spell and a even a thought of unholy DK's who have 3 diseases in their arsenal spamming SS away all the time makes me scared of the future.
We get the bonus to a spell what is roughly about 20% of our DPS when 2 other trees gets the bonus in spells what is almost half of theirs + unholy's 3rd disease.
I honestly think that it's not thought completely trough to be equally good set bonus for frost DPS dk's, since our main dps spell supports high RP generation what the inferior T7 set provides.
discuss.
That's a serious risk. Bizzard screwed up imperially with setbonuses.
I'm thinking of the T7 bonus here. I'm throwing 4 to 5 obliterates each double rotation, with my HB OB BS BS - OB HB OB rotation.
Now, each Ryme procc converts a HB in an OB (which may generate another ryme proccs). I've been able to go for 3 or 4 rotations without ever using HB outside of Ryme proccs.
Let's assume a double rotation period here, something like:
HB OB BS BS - OB HB OB
OB (ryme) OB BS BS - OB OB HB
That's 7 Obliterates over 40 seconds, which mean 70 rp from the setbonus.
2 extra Frost Strikes.
Now, let's assume weaving fails and only one crits, so let's assume (using Jrkay's numbers) 4000 + 14000 damage.
I am looking for a spec that minimizes incoming Spelldmg on my DK
(I only tank Spelldmg heavy encounters in 25man Ulduar).
So i tried a spec with Magic Suppression, Anti-Magic Zone and Spell Deflection.
Acclimation is too deep in Frost to get any other good Anti-Spell Skill and also too unrealiable(max. 30% proc chance)
Glyphs:
- Icebound Fortitude (maybe i change it to the IT Glyph when more RP is needed)
- Anti Magic Shell (DS Glyph if more TPS is needed)
- Bone Shield
Rota should be something like this:
IT-PS-BS-BS-DS-DC-DS-DS-DS-DC-DC...
Right now i have 280 hit rating and 35 Expertise, that should be ok right?
In this spec is it better for TPS to spec Necrosis 2/5 or Ravenous Dead 2/3?
Unbuffed I got 1001 STR and 3003 Atk and 11.6% Crit
i have an 3.4s 2h weapon with 203.7 dps(Inevitable Defeat)
Any comments or improvment suggestions?
thx
Edit: hm, i thought i posted in the tanking-thread...
Now that we got in to the matter of T7 vs T8 bonus one question raised up on my mind. The bonus of the set states that it increases all the damage by blood strike, heart strike, obliterate and scourge strike by 20% per disease.
We get the bonus to a spell what is roughly about 20% of our DPS when 2 other trees gets the bonus in spells what is almost half of theirs + unholy's 3rd disease.
Heart Strike makes us for around 23-28% of most Blood DKs DPS, and Scourge Strike is around the same for Unholy. I don't know where you're getting these ~50% numbers from.
Regarding set bonuses, here's a go at some theoretical Obliterate numbers using the T8 bonuses. Using Jkay's numbers and the situation outlined by Valtiel we expect his average Obliterate damage to be :
4861 * .367 + 11335 * .633 = 8977
He's running 1 disease, so ballpark math says he's gaining
8977 * .125 = 1122
damage from FF being on the target. Multiply that by 2 for a 2 disease rotation (almost definitely ideal for T8 gear frost) and we have 2244 bonus damage from diseases. So a 20% increase gives us an extra 448 damage on each OB. At seven OBs that's 3136 damage. The same set of calculations gives us 86 damage per blood strike for 347 extra BS damage for a total of 3483 damage or 87 dps. You should be using his average numbers for Frost Strike calculations rather than arbitrary numbers to get a more accurate picture. It's not enough to call the model invalid, but it will push the numbers a little more torwards T8:
For 12230 damage and 305 dps. So (very) rough math says T8 would need to make up for 218 dps. It's probably in the realm of possibility, but it seems more likely to me that we'll break even with T7 bonus at best. Though a less OB heavy rotation (as you would run with 2 diseases) is going to shift the scale a little more towards T8, and the stats may even push it over at that point. Look at it as karma for the T7 bonus being much better for us than for Blood or Unholy, not all set bonuses will be created equal and we can't really expect them to (though it'd be nice to use T8 <<).
Though a less OB heavy rotation (as you would run with 2 diseases) is going to shift the scale a little more towards T8, and the stats may even push it over at that point. Look at it as karma for the T7 bonus being much better for us than for Blood or Unholy, not all set bonuses will be created equal and we can't really expect them to (though it'd be nice to use T8 <<).
Just counter checking, a less OB heavy rotation won't make as much use of the T8 bonus either. At that point we may actually be shifting more toward T8 level gear than T8 itself.
Hi everyone. I'm new to this forum but i've read a lot on the unholy frost and blood dps builds. With the new patch and reset of talents today, I was wondering if I could get an answer on rotations.
It seems that UP is the way to go with frost and I want to use the 17/51/3 build.
PS or no PS?
how many OBs do I use?
how do I make sure I generate enough RP for FS?
When do I use HB besides on ryme procs?
Can I run the same 2 cycle rotations over and over or will I have to use a priority system?
I think you may be over-estimating the strength of 4pc T8. From the Blood DPS thread here:
Originally Posted by methods
Disease multipliers adjust the total damage of a strike after all other considerations. The T8 4P bonus increases the disease multiplier by 20% not to 20%. So for example:
HS has a disease multiplier of 10% per disease on the target.
HS = 3000 (assumed) damage before the disease multiplier.
After 2 Diseases HS = 3000*(1+10%*2 diseases) = 3600 damage.
With T8 4P and 2 Diseases HS = 3000*(1+(10%*(1.2 T8 4P)*2 Diseases =
HS = 3000*(1+12%*2 Diseases) = 3720 damage or a 3.33% ((3600-3720)/3600) damage increase.
Heart strike is typically ~30% of a Blood DK's damage (probably more in multiple-mob situations). As you can see, 4pc T8 is incredibly lackluster for blood, and I suspect that this is also the case for Frost. I'm also not sure how valuable 2pc T8 is for Frost, considering how high FS' crit already is due to KM procs.
I raided last night with 2 PC T8.5 in 25M Ulduar to see if I was RP starved (in Blood Presence obviously) and I did notice I had to hold off on one FS from time to time while doing General Vezax so I would have enough RP to Mind Freeze the flame cast. I think overall the 2 piece bonus is pretty insignificant since Killing Machine already provides an insane amount of crit to FS, would be nicer if the bonus just provided extra damage to FS/Coil (and should probably give double to Coil since it doesn't get spammed nearly as much in any other spec). If our WWS gets uploaded I will report back.
The first post of this thread should really be updated. Unless I'm wrong Fallen Crusader rune is still the best rune and there is no mention of the Howling Blast/single disease rotation/spec (or even any mention of the glyph)
The first post of this thread should really be updated. Unless I'm wrong Fallen Crusader rune is still the best rune and there is no mention of the Howling Blast/single disease rotation/spec (or even any mention of the glyph)
The OP hasn't posted or updated this thread in a very long time. Maybe we need a new thread with an active OP to continuously update the first post to keep information correct.
The OP hasn't posted or updated this thread in a very long time. Maybe we need a new thread with an active OP to continuously update the first post to keep information correct.
Well I will report his post to be deleted. Quite frankly its completely wrong and 3.1 has only been out for 2-3 weeks now, so not sure where he's been.
Regarding Howling Blast Glyph (just trying it out tonight) is the debuff the exact same as Icy Touch's Frost Fever? I ask because I'm doing Howling Blast but not seeing Frost Fever go up on my debuff tracking mods (ClassTimer).
Edit: Nevermind, seems HB simply doesnt work or doesn't apply it Frost Fever to the Flame Leviathan turrets when getting shot up.
How did you get rp for the 3xfs per rotation without HoW ??
it-25 ps-10 ob-30(4setbonus) bsx2-20 butchery-4 = 89rp, not enough to do 3xfs unless u horn at the very start.
the second rotation is:
obx3-90rp, butchery-4 = 94rp, once again just miss out on that third fs. But if you HoW be4 the first rotation start, the 3rp left over should just cover it.
So unless you HoW every 20secs, there are no way u have enough rp to spot that rotation. Should put that into your rotation post since it does take up a GcD slot.
I'm glad to see my idea that BP is the way to go confirmed.
However, I'm noticing something. Considering the IT vs HB rotation comparison, I can't really compare your numbers to mine because you have the new sigil and I don't (FS usually clocks at 33% of my dps with the same number of casts, give or take, yours get up to 40%). However, something can be observed:
- your numbers for Ignis and XT are higher than mine, by a sensible margin. I can't dismiss that as diseases ticking on Ignis for sure, but the sigil has an impact, expecially on XT (scaling).
- your rotation is very solid, but you give up on 4% crit for 21 sec diseases
Now, your rotation is 14 gcds.
My rotation has:
(HoW) HB OB FS BS FS BS FS - OB FS OB FS OB FS
Now, I have to give up on an OB from time to time to refresh FF with HB. I also lose 4% dmg on blood plague and let's exaggerate 1% dps on the bonus to BS and OB from PS. However I gain 4% crit and I can spare the luxury of using the Ryme proccs because I have a free GCD for it. Compared to PS+IT, HB does more or less the same damage on noncrit but 45% more on crits.
I'm gonna use your average numbers from trash to make a comparison: 26586 12808 3224
The conclusion is that this is noncritical damage. My rotation gets some advantage with crits on HB, however my OB are actually hitting for slightly less due to not having BP. The real kicker here is BP, which does a sensible about of damage (it's a 5% damage increase on its own).
On the other hand, as soon as you kick in AoE, the HB glyph becomes amazing. I'm really interesting in seeing your numbers for Aur /Thorim/Freya and compare them with mine (hoping the sigil will drop), and I'm also very curious about what you'll do on Hodir.
13/51/7 seems to pull ahead on single target, now I'd like to see how competitive it is on aoe, cause in that case, I might just go for 2 Frost speccs.
It's fairly easy to start with a good supply of runic power. If he had even 40 runic power, his rotation looks like this:
IT (65) -> PS (75) -> FS (43) -> OB (73) -> FS (41) -> BS (51) -> BS (61) -> FS (29)
OB (59) -> FS (37) -> OB (67) -> FS (35) -> OB (65) -> FS (33)
For a total loss of 7 runic power every 20 seconds. But he can also Blood Tap to change a Blood Strike to an Icy Touch every minute. So he gains 15 runic power per minute. So he loses a grand total of 6 runic power per minute. That means he can last quite a while. Add Empower Runic Weapon and he can go indefinitely.
Like an unchecked cancer, hate corrodes the personality and eats away its vital unity. Hate destroys a man's sense of values and his objectivity. It causes him to describe the beautiful as ugly and the ugly as beautiful, and to confuse the true with the false and the false with the true.
Martin Luther King Jr.
The OP hasn't posted or updated this thread in a very long time. Maybe we need a new thread with an active OP to continuously update the first post to keep information correct.
The funny thing is, the OP created this thread because the last Frost DPS thread was never updated either and we needed an active OP.
04/28/09, 6:19 AM
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