Freezing Hell Over, One Step at a Time (Frost DPS) - Page 39

Nexbellator · 04/10/09, 1:30 AM

Originally Posted by end3r

I ok i have a question. Right now im useing a 27/44 build right now. I have glyph of FS, OB, IT. I use the six icy touch rotation. with the FS runic dump. I pull around 3500k in 25man and 2.4k in heroics. Im decently geared and was wondering if my build is a good build and rotation is a good one. Do yall have any good tips for me? here is a link to my build Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft.

If you want to maximize dps using 6 IT rotation... you really want to have Tundra Maxed since almost every point of damage is frost (Frost Strike as well). Try This spec instead, but use the same type of rotation you had going.

Mulgero · 04/10/09, 8:35 AM

Originally Posted by end3r

I ok i have a question. Right now im useing a 27/44 build right now. I have glyph of FS, OB, IT. I use the six icy touch rotation. with the FS runic dump. I pull around 3500k in 25man and 2.4k in heroics. Im decently geared and was wondering if my build is a good build and rotation is a good one. Do yall have any good tips for me? here is a link to my build Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft.

If your group doesn't have enhance shaman or hunter with ap aura then your spec is better than what Nexbellator is proposing since 10% ap + expertise & str from veteran beats tundrastalker especially for group. You need to move that 1 point from bloody vengeance to abomination's might tho since you really want to get ap proc up whenever you're forced to used anything else but IT/FS. This also leads to that in your second rotation with 6 death runes you most likely have to use OB in the middle or in the end of the rotation to get ap buff up again.

If you have ap buff from elsewhere then Nexbellas build is better one and allows "6xIT" (more like 2xIT FS 2xIT FS..) spam.

That build requires also IT sigil and 4p T7 is really helpfull for getting extra RP from OB. Rest is about raid stacking. With that build I've done over 5k at Patch and average damage over whole Naxx run about 4k in 10man but that's with more or less best 10man gear available.

I must say that I'm really gonna miss this spec after 3.1 comes and so will my 10man group

Blowncoat · 04/13/09, 4:10 PM

Originally Posted by Neckface

Not sure I understand the argument here...could you elaborate?

My napkin math was that IF both HB and Oblit do an average of X damage, but Oblit has a 15% chance of also proccing Rime, then expected Oblit damage is 1.15 * X. This ignores any disruptions to your rotation, but also ignores the fact that your IT just got refreshed.

Bear in mind I was only responding to the assertion that if Oblit and HB damage are the same, you should always HB.

EDIT: Oh, and just to clarify, I didn't mean 15% overall single-target increase; I was referring just to the damage from the U/F pair.

Sorry for taking so long to get back to you, temp bans ftw?

What I meant was that the Rime proc's effectiveness is really only 5/8. Here's a better explanation why:

Let's say you use HB, be it a proc or just casting it because you need to keep FF up. In order to get a proc from Rime, you need to use OB. So you use an OB and viola, you get a proc and you cast your free OB.
So in time it looks like HB->OB->HB right? It takes AT LEAST 3 seconds to actually use a Rime proc. The cooldown being 8 seconds, you are only getting 62.5% effectiveness from it. For OB to theoretically be 1.15x, OB would have to instantly cast it. Does this make sense to you?

So, if Both HB and OB do the same amount of damage and your procs always happened after you had used HB, then the most we could assume about OB's damage from Rime is 109.375x in a completely perfect world. Since it is not, we could go on to discuss figuring it out by displaying the percentages of where it would proc, ect. But I am just going to say that the Rime proc effective increases OB damage by 5%.

*Yes, I know Rime gives OB 15% crit. This is a discussion on the Rime proc*

areis · 04/14/09, 2:31 PM

First time poster, long time reader

I was wondering if in 3.1, it would be more beneficial to glyph HB instead of IT, so that one could go with hb-bs-bs-oblit followed by oblitx3 as the second rotation, and using HB for refreshing IT, instead of ps-it-bs-bs-oblit with oblitx3 as the second rotation.

Any guidance would be greatly appreciated

ryuno · 04/14/09, 3:03 PM

i'm starting a new dk, and i was wondering, since the new glyph of disease refreshes the duration of both diseases, why not replace a BS with pest, so it would allow for one more obliterate, something like
IT-PS-BS-BS-OB- dump (to start)

Pest( before diseases run out)- BS- OB-OB- Dump

this till the fight ends, and glyphs would be FS/OB/Dis, since IT wouldn´t be used that much

i think this rotation would be easier in unholy pres, but not sure

Keji · 04/14/09, 3:20 PM

Originally Posted by Belzi.ET

You don't have to break the holy trinity of your glyphs.
In a comparison to IT/PS/OB/BS/BS dump > OB/OB/OB rotation you you IT twice as much, making the glyph even more valuable. Or you can swap the IT-glyph for HB-glyph to play with an alternate HB-heavy rotation for trash.

Or is it, that the Pestilence-glyph is a major one? I made a check on divine diary (blog) and he mentioned the glyph being a minor one.

What spec are you useing? Or are you useing a spec other people already posted. Seems like you could put talents in different places to get more DPS output if I kinda have a general idea of you spec...but would you mind posting your spec?

Nizari · 04/14/09, 9:01 PM

I can't figure out if the 25% strength from Unbreakable armour is worth the rune... Although you CAN just bind it with blood tap I guess, but I often use blood tap on another icy touch or something.

seraphthrone · 04/14/09, 9:56 PM

20 seconds out of 160 seconds cooldown = 12.5% uptime. Assume you have around 1400 STR raid buffed. That's on average 175 STR for the cost of 1 frost rune. If you can manage to get 1 DR to replace a frost rune, you can looking at 175 STR + 1 DR vs 1 OB or 1 HB every 2 mins, with IMO UA is still worth using.

Valimar · 04/14/09, 11:40 PM

Just sacrifice one in every two Rune taps to pop it, it's not exactly Hysteria or Gargoyle in terms of a DPS boost but it's an increase worth using during a BL/Heroism phase or during the last 35% when MC kicks in.

Yubble · 04/15/09, 11:43 AM

Finally managed to log on this morning...

First thing i did - bought SoA for 25 valor badges. Went immediately to the dummy.

If anything, it looks like dps has remained the same or gone up. I was about 200 dps higher than usual using my new SoA.

I tried a few rotations w/ a 17-51-3 spec, nobody else was on the dummy (ebon hold)

PS-IT-(FS)-OB-BS-BS-(FS) | PS-IT-(FS)-OB-(FS)-OB-(FS) : unholy presence; netted around 3200 dps w/ merc combat

IT-OB-(FS)-OB-BS-(FS) | repeat : blood pres; 3100 dps w/ merc combat

Then tried some priority rotations w/ FS>IT>OB>BS>PS and got around the same dps. EDIT: every rotation used HB on rime procs.

I suck at UH presence, so I'd rather not use it. But assuming no HB or Pest glyph, it looks competitive.

Swentik · 04/15/09, 1:36 PM

3.1 frost is looking pretty solid. i am testing out the 3/51/17. I am however having a hard time modifying it for PvP.

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

With this spec there are 2 points at the end which are free. i put them both into unholy and picked up CS and NotD, purly PvE raid DPS.

Krett · 04/15/09, 1:37 PM

Let's talk about glyph of disease for a second.

Here's what I'm doing

IT PS OB BS Pest (If I don't pestilence here the diseases will run out before the next pestilence)
OB OB OB
OB OB Pest BS (Very close to the end of their timer)
OB OB OB
OB OB (diseases wear off) And then I have two blood runes

It seems that one cannot drop IT + Ps from their rotation completely with this glyph, just double the length of the rotation. Is it not worth using would I be better off with howling blast and then dropping points in unholy?

Unfortunately, glyph of howling blast doesn't exist on my server yet so I can't do any more research by myself.

Note that my spec is PVP based so the frost tree is bloated and I don't have that many points to spare.

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

This is what I'm working on.

I probably should go for howling blast if only because the frequent refreshing will keep chilblains up.

After more testing:

Icy talons doesn't refresh with glyph of disease oh boy =(

zmb · 04/15/09, 5:27 PM

so far...

equip:
The World of Warcraft Armory
tree - 17/51/3:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...4&version=9767

Glyphs:
major: IT, OB, FS
minor: Pest, HoW, RD

Rota: (1st bloodtap) IT->OB->OB->BS->3xFS
with Deatchill & Unbreakable Armor CD without Ghul AND
fallen crusader 3.1kdps
razorice 3.2kdps
cinderglacier 3.15-3.2kdps

the thing is... after this rotation, 3-4s frostfever are unused

i added HB at the end, but it takes the frostrunes, that are needed for starting the next rotation.

my suggestion for aoe-rotation is:
Start up with IT->HB->BBoil->2xFS->BBoil->HB->IT... after that, it depends on what is ready and if frostfever is up.
Gives me ~4kdps on that three lvl80 puppets.

Vythial · 04/15/09, 5:46 PM

Krett, the points in your spec in Chilblains, imp frost presence, and Hungering Cold are really not very useful to personal or raid dps. I understand survivability is important and all, but at a minimum the points in Chilblains would serve you a lot better in Dark Conviction, Bladed Armor or Ravenous Dead.

Anyway, here's what I'm feeling - Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
17/51/3, kinda focusing on frost strike as my main damage dealer here with the new portion of blood of the north

rotation - single target
IT-PS-BS-Oblit-FS-FS
Pest-Oblit-Oblit-FS-FS

rotation - group
IT-PS-Pest-BS- Oblit- FS
BB-BB-BB-Pest

glyphed up with Disease, Frost Strike, Icy Touch

EDIT: Switching to pestilence later in the rotation is actually a loss of damage and it doesn't speed up the rotation enough to make up for the loss of the 20% haste and the IT and PS damage.

So, after some testing, swapping out glyph of disease in favor of oblit is a great idea. Screw pestilence.

yek366 · 04/15/09, 5:55 PM

I've seen several talent specs so far, and I am not sure which I would like to go with.

17/51/3 - http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...0&version=9767

IT PS BS BS OB (FS) IT PS OB OB (FS)

13/51/7 - http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...0&version=9767

IT PS BS BS OB (FS) OB OB OB (FS)

2/51/18 - http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...0&version=9767

IT PS BS BS OB (FS) OB OB OB (FS)

All rotations I've seen have been fairly competitive, using simple rotations. Correct me if I am wrong, but assuming you are the person for buffing 20% haste, then IT/OB/FS are the right glyphs to use? Also, SoA and FC sigil/enchant are the best? However, is their any clear evidence that one of these is higher, even by a small amount?