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Old 09/01/09, 3:31 AM   #401
Afabar
Don Flamenco
 
Draenei Death Knight
 
Chants Eternels (EU)
I'm currently working on blood optimisation. I have already made some progress by tunning the disease reapply. I guess it's time to add Cryptic Fever as a buff.
Vangarr, select blood priority.

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Old 09/03/09, 10:46 PM   #402
Mericet
Von Kaiser
 
Draenei Hunter
 
Kargath
Edit: sorry, missed the post about this issue. Please delete.

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Old 09/03/09, 10:56 PM   #403
Consider
King Hippo
 
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Draenei Death Knight
 
Dragonblight
For the non hit/expertise segments of the EP calculations, it automatically puts you at the hit/expertise caps, regardless of the character profile it's working off.

For the hit/expertise segments of the EP calculations, it subtracts X hit/expertise (50, I presume) from the maximum, then calculates the dps loss to figure out the EP value.

So, it's working as intended.

On another note: I'm curious - would it be possible to add an option to run X simulations of Y duration back-to-back-to-back? This was recently touched upon (slightly) in the Unholy thread, and I personally think it would be of a lot of use, specifically in regards to calculating the value of GoD (among other things). I understand the reason simulations run several hundreds of hours - to rule out RNG (be it crit rng, weapon damage range rng, etc) - but fights are not several hundreds of hours long (thank god!). A five minute simulation, on the other hand, is much more realistic, rng and all, and being able to run, say, ten thousand of those five minute duration simulations back-to-back and have the results automatically combined/averaged out would be much more informative.

Of course, if it is technologicly complex/difficult/impossible, no big deal. But if it wouldn't take that much time to add, it would be a very nice addition.

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Old 09/04/09, 8:42 AM   #404
dr_AllCOM3
Great Tiger
 
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Orc Death Knight
 
Blutkessel (EU)
Originally Posted by Consider View Post
On another note: I'm curious - would it be possible to add an option to run X simulations of Y duration back-to-back-to-back?
Should be possible. At worst it's slightly slower then. 5:45min should be a good default value.
What results you you expect from such a change?

Edit: No, it's more complicated. Unless you're happy without a total fight result breakdown.

Last edited by dr_AllCOM3 : 09/04/09 at 10:35 AM.


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Old 09/04/09, 9:42 AM   #405
Necromir
Von Kaiser
 
Human Death Knight
 
Thunderhorn
I think people are wanting duration sims so that glyphs like GoD don't get fake weights.

It may take 20-30 seconds to actually get a perfect disease stack rolling. In a 5.5 minute fight that's possibly up to 10% of the fight where you aren't getting max disease dps. The sims runs for like a 1000 hours and 30 seconds is an eyeblink. This leads to GoD simming better but not necessarily being better in the actual fights.

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Old 09/04/09, 11:53 AM   #406
dr_AllCOM3
Great Tiger
 
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Orc Death Knight
 
Blutkessel (EU)
Short fights seem to work now. You don't get a detailed report though. The fight statistics are initialized together with cooldowns, timers and similar stuff. Seperating them takes a while and will create new errors.

A small teaser:
Blood Standard, DPS: 9645
Blood GoD, DPS: 9168
Unholy Standard, DPS: 9761
Frost Standard, DPS: 9201


1.0.9 Release notes
* Sigil of Virulence works now with Death Strike
* Option for many short fights (No report generated at the moment)

Last edited by dr_AllCOM3 : 09/04/09 at 12:36 PM.


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Old 09/04/09, 10:50 PM   #407
Asphyxialol
TEH DEEPZ!!!
 
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Human Paladin
 
Dalvengyr
Just wanting to tack this on here...

EP:50 | AttackPower | 100
EP:50 | Strength | 267
EP:50 | Agility | 124
EP:50 | CritRating | 182
EP:50 | HasteRating | 342
EP:50 | ArmorPenetrationRating | 289
EP:50 | ExpertiseRating | 339
EP:50 | BeforeMeleeHitCap<8% | 471
EP:50 | AfterMeleeHitCap | 54
EP:10 | WeaponDPS | 982
EP: | 2T8 | 9454
EP: | 4T8 | 9454
EP: | 2T9 | 14181
EP: | 4T9 | 26363
| Template | Blood 51-0-20
| Rotation | Blood
| Presence | Blood
| Sigil | VengefulHeart
| RuneEnchant | FallenCrusader
| Pet Calculation | False

Obviously something has to be wrong with this value. I am using my current gear set and stats as my character sheet. Any idea what could be skewing the haste results so much?

edit:
Closing and running the program again with similar settings (priority blood vs rotation blood, and calculate t7 2/4p) provided much different results (both 1000h sims)...

EP:50 | AttackPower | 100
EP:50 | Strength | 272
EP:50 | Agility | 124
EP:50 | CritRating | 182
EP:50 | HasteRating | 162
EP:50 | ArmorPenetrationRating | 289
EP:50 | ExpertiseRating | 262
EP:50 | BeforeMeleeHitCap<8% | 375
EP:50 | AfterMeleeHitCap | -80
EP:10 | WeaponDPS | 965
EP: | 2T7 | 4912
EP: | 4T7 | 2982
EP: | 2T8 | 9473
EP: | 4T8 | 10701
EP: | 2T9 | 14385
EP: | 4T9 | 29473
| Template | Blood 51-0-20
| Priority | Blood
| Presence | Blood
| Sigil | VengefulHeart
| RuneEnchant | FallenCrusader
| Pet Calculation | False

This time obviously affecting spell hit cap the most. How are we supposed to judge these results? Even on very long sims with the same items/stats, spec, and the only difference being a rotation vs priority the results still change quite substantially.

Last edited by Asphyxialol : 09/04/09 at 11:17 PM.

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Old 09/04/09, 11:35 PM   #408
dr_AllCOM3
Great Tiger
 
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Orc Death Knight
 
Blutkessel (EU)
Put your character file here http://pastey.net/ and anything else that you changed from the default values. I can't do anything at all without complete informations.


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Old 09/04/09, 11:43 PM   #409
Asphyxialol
TEH DEEPZ!!!
 
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Human Paladin
 
Dalvengyr
http://www.gamerenders.com/uploads/logs/character.txt

Pastey appears to be having an issue in regards to their MySQL DB at the moment, so I cannot upload there.

I did not change any other files but the character settings, and re-running the program again with a rotation over priority returns the exact same results as my initial post indicated above (ran a 100h test this time).

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Old 09/06/09, 3:49 PM   #410
tripp6sic6
Von Kaiser
 
Human Warrior
 
Shattered Hand
Is there any plans to implement the ArP nerf in some way? Maybe as a checkbox that can be enabled or disabled.

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Old 09/07/09, 1:21 AM   #411
NaeblisHyjal
Glass Joe
 
Undead Rogue
 
Hyjal
I was wondering what method Kahorie's DK Simulator is using to calculate the 4P T9 Bonus at the moment.
As pointed out by a posted in the Unholy discussion it seems that current game mechanics are giving our 4P T9 a 1% crit chance.

I was curious if the DK Sim uses that 1% crit chance, melee crit chance, or spell crit chance.

The main reason I am curious is because it seems that Unholy Obliterate only wins against DW Frost when simmed in Best in Slot gear when 4P T9 is applied. Otherwise when both Best in Slot sets are set to only calculate 2P T9 DW Frost wins by about 50dps.

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Old 09/07/09, 1:33 PM   #412
PristineChaos
Von Kaiser
 
Human Death Knight
 
Doomhammer
Seems like the Sim is not using Hysteria when simulating Blood dps.

I ran 2h Ulduar gear set with the default Blood talent spec (moved one point from Epidemic to Necrosis however).
I used the "Many" setting with 350 sec fights over a 100 hour simulation. I used Vengeful Heart and the default Blood priority. Set bonii were 2t8 and 2t9 (pretty sure that is in the default gear set as well).

Result: 7000 dps.

Next, I simply took one point out of Hysteria and put it in imp Blood Presence with all the other settings the same.

Result: 7000 dps.

So keep this in mind when evaluating sim results for Blood vs other specs if you do use Hysteria on yourself.

Is it possible to put in an option to let the sim use Hysteria (esp timed with DRW) ?

Last edited by PristineChaos : 09/07/09 at 3:16 PM.

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Old 09/07/09, 5:17 PM   #413
Afabar
Don Flamenco
 
Draenei Death Knight
 
Chants Eternels (EU)
I just check, in fact Hysteria is used only on blood spec even if non spec for it. I will correct that tomorrow.

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Old 09/08/09, 5:04 AM   #414
Consider
King Hippo
 
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Draenei Death Knight
 
Dragonblight
This might seem a bit odd at first glance, but I was wondering: Would it be possible to add Rejuvenation to the buffs you can check on/off?

The reason I ask is because of Revitalize, of course.

If your resto druid isn't running out of mana (quite possible, depending on the fight) and has the free GCD every 18 seconds (pretty likely, certain fights/phases aside), keeping Rejuv up on a DK (or a Rogue/Feral Druid/Warrior) is a direct dps increase, so why not do it? What I am curious about is how much of a dps increase it in fact is (so I have a number I can toss at my resto druids, of course!). Rejuv costs somewhere between 350 and 450 mana (depending on whether or not the druid is using Idol of Awakening and/or Spark of Life), which casted every 18 seconds comes out to ~100 mp5. Over the course of a 6 minute fight, that's only ~7500 mana, the equivalent of a single innervate. It's not much. What if it adds say 100 dps to a DK? Or 150? Or 200? Or really any amount? If the mana is going to go to "waste", why not convert it into dps? It's not like the DK won't benefit from the healing at certain points on some fights anyways.

I know the sim already has an option to add X runic power every 60 seconds, but that doesn't model Revitalize accurately. The feature works one of two ways (I'm not exactly sure which, to be honest, as I rarely use it myself) - either giving you X runic power instantly every 60 seconds, or X/60 runic power every second. I'm assuming the first, which makes it fine for the "AMS" factor of fights, but Revitalize is quite different. Getting 16 RP every handful of time is better than getting, say, 80 RP all at once, as the latter will probably overcap you (depending on where it falls in your rotation), and thus lose value. As such, yeah, it can't really tell one Revitalize's value.

This isn't a huge deal, but it would certainly be interesting to know, if it isn't terribly difficult to add. Not only could it be used in arguments with one's resto druids, convincing them to keep Rejuv on you at all times, whether or not you need the healing, it can also be used for those resto druids who already do toss Rejuv on the melee if they have the extra mana purely for dps, convincing them to make sure it is up on you over a Rogue/FDruid/Warrior.

Edit: To the below - duh. I'm an idiot. That's what I get for thinking about this at 430 am ><. Feel free to delete. God I feel stupid.

Last edited by Consider : 09/08/09 at 5:21 AM. Reason: I'm a tool

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Old 09/08/09, 5:15 AM   #415
Afabar
Don Flamenco
 
Draenei Death Knight
 
Chants Eternels (EU)
Unless there is a bug, both fields that set the RP gained over the fight the should be editable, not just the value of the gain. Default value is set to 60s but you can change it to what ever you want.

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Old 09/08/09, 8:41 AM   #416
GravityDK
Piston Honda
 
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Tauren Death Knight
 
Dath'Remar
Originally Posted by Afabar View Post
[table]EP:50 | AttackPower | 100
EP:50 | Strength | 273
EP:10 | WeaponDPS | 682
EP:0.1 | WeaponSpeed | 53968
I can't work out something, perhaps because I'm a tank not so familiar with EP.
What is the significance and meaning of the different EP 50/10/0.1 values?

Do they mean every point of Attack Power equivalence is worth 5x that of each weapon DPS point?
I can't work out how to compare across the EP50 values to the EP 10 and 0.1 values.

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Old 09/08/09, 8:50 AM   #417
Aten
Glass Joe
 
Human Death Knight
 
Sylvanas (EU)
Im getting some weird Haste and Expertize values on the EP figures after runing the 1000h test, similar to Asphyxialol.

The expertize one is the weirdest cause im above the cap.

Edit: typos

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Old 09/08/09, 8:51 AM   #418
Afabar
Don Flamenco
 
Draenei Death Knight
 
Chants Eternels (EU)
Originally Posted by GravityDK View Post
I can't work out something, perhaps because I'm a tank not so familiar with EP.
What is the significance and meaning of the different EP 50/10/0.1 values?

Do they mean every point of Attack Power equivalence is worth 5x that of each weapon DPS point?
I can't work out how to compare across the EP50 values to the EP 10 and 0.1 values.
That is the value added to the stat to calculate their EP value, however this is not a very useful information.

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Old 09/08/09, 8:56 AM   #419
GravityDK
Piston Honda
 
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Tauren Death Knight
 
Dath'Remar
OK.
Therefore, ignoring the EP50/10 etc, basically I can say 1 point of Weapon Speed is 539.68x better than Attack Power?
(Once this is answered, you might find it useful to update your OP with clarity on this question for others like me).

Second point, I'm running 3x EP calculations at the same time now. I noticed very low CPU usage. Perhaps you could get the app to use quad-core processors more? Screenshot.

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Old 09/08/09, 9:24 AM   #420
dr_AllCOM3
Great Tiger
 
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Orc Death Knight
 
Blutkessel (EU)
Originally Posted by GravityDK View Post
Second point, I'm running 3x EP calculations at the same time now. I noticed very low CPU usage. Perhaps you could get the app to use quad-core processors more? Screenshot.
Not possible, due to the way the sim is done internally.


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Old 09/08/09, 10:26 AM   #421
GravityDK
Piston Honda
 
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Tauren Death Knight
 
Dath'Remar
Originally Posted by Consider View Post
For the non hit/expertise segments of the EP calculations, it automatically puts you at the hit/expertise caps, regardless of the character profile it's working off.

For the hit/expertise segments of the EP calculations, it subtracts X hit/expertise (50, I presume) from the maximum, then calculates the dps loss to figure out the EP value.

So, it's working as intended.
Ohhhhh. That's good to know.

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Old 09/08/09, 4:46 PM   #422
Mericet
Von Kaiser
 
Draenei Hunter
 
Kargath
Originally Posted by GravityDK View Post
OK.
Therefore, ignoring the EP50/10 etc, basically I can say 1 point of Weapon Speed is 539.68x better than Attack Power?
(Once this is answered, you might find it useful to update your OP with clarity on this question for others like me).
I believe the weapon speed value goes by 1 second intervals, so if a weapon suddenly became 1 second slower, it would be worth 539.68 more attack power for you. The difference for most weapons is likely to be closer to .1 or .2 seconds, so just divide accordingly for a difference of about 54 or 108 attack power respectively.

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Old 09/08/09, 5:56 PM   #423
dr_AllCOM3
Great Tiger
 
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Orc Death Knight
 
Blutkessel (EU)
The speed and dps numbers are in no context with each other or anything else but themselves. Some people like to have numbers to compare weapons.


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Old 09/09/09, 4:40 AM   #424
GravityDK
Piston Honda
 
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Tauren Death Knight
 
Dath'Remar
Hi all,

I'd appreciate it I could get a second-opinion on my conclusions on TANK DK threat stats. The complete post is here. For convenience though, I have put an extract here.

I am fairly sure my conclusions and analysis are right, but do not want to spread misinformation if I've got something wrong. Also, readers may find it useful in its own right.
How do you read the tables?

They use attack power as the baseline. For example, the blood EP shows strength is 238, which means 1 point of STR on an item is worth 2.38x as much as 1 point of AP.

Key take-away:

Expertise is number one. (Sept 9 update).

Notice how important to-hit is for threat also. You can get them from food buffs without complicating your gear choices.

Blood
| AttackPower | 100
| Strength | 238
| Agility | 138
| CritRating | 207
| HasteRating | 200
| ArmorPenetrationRating | 253
| ExpertiseRating | under 6.5% ~476 / over 6.5% 238
| HitRating | before melee cap 330 / after cap 88
| WeaponDPS | 1000*
| Template | Blood tank survival

Blood tanks should be at 6.5% expertise as first priority, then 8% hit-capped as second priority. After that, strength is it.

* Weapon DPS
However the weapon DPS figures can be compared between the three trees, so you can see a Frost tank gains more from weapon DPS than an Unholy tank. You do not say that DPS is 10.3x better than strength, though, that’s not what the figures mean.

Fact is, a higher max damage weapon (ie. from a higher ilevel) is always good for strikes and generally a huge threat boost, the question is how much exactly, and this sim is not conclusive on that point.

Model’s stats

Uses the same baseline stats as my other sims on the site: 1240 str, 235 agi, 25118 armour, 3397 AP, 548 crit, using Inevitable Defeat 203 dps, 3.4 speed. Hit and expertise are modelled irrelevent of rating.

Thes above figures are before the 3.22 ArPen nerf.

Expertise
I remembered that the simulator models as if you’re attacking from behind, so to compensate for tanks I have doubled the expertise EP when the tank is below 6.5% expertise (26 skill). When originally published yesterday I just had the one figure. Tanks gain simultaneously dodge reduction and parry reduction from expertise (like twice the bang for your buck) because they attack from the front, and expertise effects both stats at the same time.

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Old 09/09/09, 9:33 AM   #425
dr_AllCOM3
Great Tiger
 
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Orc Death Knight
 
Blutkessel (EU)
1.0.10 Release notes
* Both Death’s Choice trinkets added.
* Option for nerfing Arp.


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