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08/31/10, 3:58 PM
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#1021
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Piston Honda
Human Death Knight
Boulderfist
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It would be totally awesome if you could add Scarlet Fever and Blade Barrier to the priority for Blood.
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09/01/10, 6:01 PM
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#1022
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Glass Joe
Orc Death Knight
Duskwood
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Hello, I'm a fan of your simulator, however, I want to know if there's any way to sim whether pre-potting using wild magic is more beneficial than pre-potting using a haste pot given the fact that bloodlust is used about 2 seconds into the encounter.
I realize that this question is a bit...out there, but I want to know so I can better min/max for 25M HM LK
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09/01/10, 9:26 PM
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#1023
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Don Flamenco
Draenei Death Knight
Chants Eternels (EU)
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Originally Posted by zaalin
Hello, I'm a fan of your simulator, however, I want to know if there's any way to sim whether pre-potting using wild magic is more beneficial than pre-potting using a haste pot given the fact that bloodlust is used about 2 seconds into the encounter.
I realize that this question is a bit...out there, but I want to know so I can better min/max for 25M HM LK
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Wild magic potion are not included, however I don't see how 200 crit for 15 second could be better than 500 haste for the same time.
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09/01/10, 11:30 PM
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#1024
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Glass Joe
Orc Death Knight
Duskwood
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with a haste pot and bloodlust I am put over the gcd cap of 1 second, which greatly deteriorates the value of haste. As a result I'm not sure if wild magic or speed would be better for pre-potting in this situation
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09/02/10, 2:39 AM
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#1025
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Von Kaiser
Night Elf Death Knight
Thrall (EU)
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The main use of haste is the increased auto attack speed, as far as I know. For that it is even more beneficial to use speed pot and Bloodlust together than after each other as their haste bonus is multiplied not added together (haste from haste rating is multiplied with %-haste buffs and multiple %-haste buffs are also multplied by each other).
As the only GCDs that are reduced by haste are spell GCDs and our special attack output is still restricted by runes/runic power which don't come in faster with more haste (yet) and haste is such a good stat regardless (which is because of its increase in auto attack damage), I don't see how 200 crit could possibly be better than 500 haste just because with the haste you would be reaching the GCD cap for the few spells we use.
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09/09/10, 7:37 AM
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#1026
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Glass Joe
Undead Death Knight
Ambossar (EU)
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Hi, I have a problem. The live versions of Kahorie's don't work on my computer for some reason (and yes i have Silverlight), the hard client works, but the Armory function doesn't work correctly and if I try to enter my items i get an exception every time. I can click continue though and this way I could generate my stat weights.
I now would very much appreciate if someone with time on their hands can recalculate my EP Values so I can check if in spite of the errors i get, the stat weights I calculated are valid.
Armorylink: The World of Warcraft Armory - Ømgãkzëñtê @ Ambossar - Profile
Character is: Ømgãkzëñtê
on: EU-Ambossar
This is what I got so far
EP AttackPower | 1 (0,86 DPS/per AP)
EP Strength | 2,74
EP CritRating | 1,93
EP HasteEstimated | 1,7
EP HasteRating1 | 1,86
EP ArmorPenetrationRating | 2,37
EP WeaponDPS | 6,63
EP 2T10 | 307,32
EP 4T10 | 352,44
EP DeathbringersWill | 386,9
EP WhisperingFangedSkull | 377,38
I hope this doesn't count as handholding.
p.s.: I read I should gem Haste/Strength in Yellowsockets provided they have +Strength bonus, if my stat weights are indeed correct, is that not wrong, and I should and have gemmed correctly Crit/Strength?
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10/05/10, 9:53 PM
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#1027
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Glass Joe
Orc Death Knight
Blackmoore (EU)
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The online client isn't working for me as well, but only on Firefox (tried with deactivated Advertise Blocker too). It seems to be full functionable with GC or IE.
@Herrfugbaum
The easiest way to enter the correct stats is to import your armory via chardev.org, reset talents and add flask&bufffood (because it isn't implemented yet). You can identify the green AP value via RangedAP-Agility.
This is what I get for your gear:
SpellHit | 3
CritRating | 1,97
Haste | 1,78
Therefore you should go for Str/Hit, though I'm not sure if the Sim is right in here, to confirm it just try two different gear setups: one with crit ametrines, one with hit ametrines, and choose the more powerful DPS.
P.S.: Everytime you change gear, the EP values change. Because of this, normally one can't determine universal EP values. Especially with Frost I recommend to generate the EP values on your own.
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10/14/10, 12:12 AM
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#1028
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Von Kaiser
Orc Death Knight
Stonemaul
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The Cata simulator is giving me wildly inaccurate results for Unholy DPS (I have not tested frost yet).
Here is my character.
The World of Warcraft Armory - Elretardo @ Stonemaul - Profile
I'm using more or less the standard unholy spec, only difference is I dropped the 1 point in butchery so I could have my beloved chain death grip in PvP.
On the target dummy, self buffed only, my DPS ranges from 9100 to 9500, yet the sim predicts only ~5500:
| Ability | Damage done | | | | hits | | | Crits | | | Misses | | Glances | | | TPS | Uptime | | | Total | % | # | Avg | # | % | Avg | # | % | Avg | # | Avg | # | Avg | % | % | | | ScourgeStrike | 767578150 | 19 | 175677 | 4369 | 125359 | 3398 | 68 | 50318 | 6790 | 27 | 9738 | 5 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | | MainHand | 667331709 | 16 | 283486 | 3151 | 125413 | 1916 | 42 | 86352 | 3832 | 29 | 15738 | 5 | 71721 | 1341 | 24 | 0 | 0 | | Ghoul | 560169107 | 14 | 553956 | 1330 | 260672 | 833 | 47 | 160395 | 1658 | 29 | 0 | 0 | 132889 | 582 | 24 | 0 | 0 | | DeathCoil | 464611101 | 11 | 124841 | 3722 | 91061 | 2930 | 73 | 33780 | 5856 | 27 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | | ScourgeStrike+ScourgeStrikeMagical | 298393874 | 7 | 175677 | 1698 | 175677 | 1698 | 100 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | | BloodPlague | 294013565 | 7 | 240171 | 1224 | 175278 | 965 | 73 | 64893 | 1925 | 27 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 99 | | FrostFever | 293409729 | 7 | 239873 | 1223 | 175180 | 964 | 73 | 64693 | 1926 | 27 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 100 | | Ghoul: Claw | 226660998 | 6 | 186047 | 1218 | 132267 | 1040 | 71 | 53780 | 1658 | 29 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | | BloodStrike | 216654812 | 5 | 68003 | 3186 | 48050 | 2465 | 67 | 19953 | 4923 | 28 | 3790 | 5 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | | PlagueStrike | 91965950 | 2 | 24466 | 3759 | 17365 | 2910 | 67 | 7101 | 5836 | 28 | 1381 | 5 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | | IcyTouch | 75844816 | 2 | 24480 | 3098 | 17738 | 2428 | 72 | 6742 | 4863 | 28 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | | Gargoyle | 65744325 | 2 | 22019 | 2986 | 22019 | 2986 | 100 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | | UnholyBlight | 46483428 | 1 | 124841 | 372 | 124841 | 0 | 100 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | | Army of the Dead | 41556491 | 1 | 491040 | 85 | 466466 | 85 | 95 | 24574 | 80 | 5 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
DPS 5597(+/- 814)
Total Damage 4110.42m
RunicPower Total runic power used: 2876202 (2 wasted)
Threat Per Second 3786
Generated in 37.13 s
Template uh80
Priority Unholy
Presence Unholy
Sigil
RuneEnchant
Pet Calculation True
Today I did a 25N Saurfang as a benchmark for raid DPS. In this raid there was no windfury, no bloodlust, and my pet was dead for the last several seconds. But my DPS was about 15000. However, the sim predicts only about 11k, even with full raid buffs and debuffs (and yes, with the ICC buff set at 30):
WoL Parse: World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
Fully buffed simulator results for fight of equal duration:
| Ability | Damage done | | | | hits | | | Crits | | | Misses | | Glances | | | TPS | Uptime | | | Total | % | # | Avg | # | % | Avg | # | % | Avg | # | Avg | # | Avg | % | % | | | MainHand | 1530115054 | 19 | 360447 | 5684 | 119272 | 3168 | 31 | 149907 | 6337 | 39 | 20403 | 5 | 91268 | 2218 | 24 | 0 | 0 | | ScourgeStrike | 1367570637 | 17 | 179661 | 7612 | 109764 | 5482 | 58 | 69897 | 10956 | 37 | 10153 | 5 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | | Ghoul | 1334724404 | 17 | 705697 | 2490 | 258326 | 1436 | 37 | 277729 | 2858 | 39 | 678 | 0 | 169642 | 1002 | 24 | 0 | 0 | | DeathCoil | 799501778 | 10 | 134150 | 5960 | 84562 | 4352 | 62 | 49588 | 8702 | 36 | 2398 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | | ScourgeStrike+ScourgeStrikeMagical | 547666450 | 7 | 179661 | 3048 | 179661 | 3048 | 100 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | | BloodPlague | 500886045 | 6 | 240322 | 2084 | 151535 | 1523 | 63 | 88787 | 3042 | 37 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 99 | | FrostFever | 500100513 | 6 | 240256 | 2082 | 151640 | 1522 | 63 | 88616 | 3039 | 37 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 100 | | Ghoul: Claw | 412345018 | 5 | 185884 | 2218 | 112949 | 1799 | 61 | 72935 | 2868 | 39 | 172 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | | BloodStrike | 380949200 | 5 | 69178 | 5507 | 41539 | 3938 | 57 | 27639 | 7864 | 38 | 3942 | 5 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | | Gargoyle | 190167572 | 2 | 47212 | 4028 | 42453 | 3659 | 88 | 4759 | 7322 | 10 | 851 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | | PlagueStrike | 160413305 | 2 | 24456 | 6559 | 14919 | 4713 | 58 | 9537 | 9448 | 37 | 1409 | 5 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | | IcyTouch | 124053957 | 2 | 24480 | 5068 | 15233 | 3676 | 61 | 9247 | 7360 | 37 | 432 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | | UnholyBlight | 79927138 | 1 | 134150 | 596 | 134150 | 0 | 100 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | | Army of the Dead | 60785964 | 1 | 792968 | 77 | 713669 | 76 | 90 | 79299 | 86 | 10 | 760 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
DPS 10879(+/- 3331)
Total Damage 7989.21m
RunicPower Total runic power used: 2928590 (8 wasted)
Threat Per Second 7012
Generated in 37.24 s
Template uh80
Priority Unholy
Presence Unholy
Sigil
RuneEnchant
Pet Calculation True
I have the simulator configured to use unholy presence, the default Unholy.xml priority, NoIntro, and the default Scenario.xml.
Are other people seeing better closure between the sim and target dummy and raid parses?? Are these results due to a bug on my side or is this kind of behavior reproducible. Since people are already using this sim to produce tentative statweights and draw conclusions about different specs, I assume someone somewhere has some reasonable validation data...
Also, the ranges on the simulation results, especially the +/- 3000 in the fully buffed case, seem absurd. I suppose it is possible that one simulation trial maybe got 20 dodges in a row or something ridiculous like that, causing a low DPS number, and maybe another trial got runic corruption procs on every DC and/or a long crit streak...but if this is the case then the RNG range of the reported DPS really ought to be expressed as a standard deviation or variance statistic (or better yet, a histogram), rather than a simple min/max range. The way things presently are, it is impossible to get a meaningful idea of what kind of DPS variations can be expected in practice, which makes it impossible to determine whether or not a DPS delta is statistically significant (e.g. when evaluating stat/gear/spec changes)
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10/14/10, 12:24 AM
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#1029
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King Hippo
Draenei Death Knight
Dragonblight
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If you're getting a 3k damage range, I can only assume you're doing something wrong. I can't find a way to get a gap that big, with any level of gear or with any spec. Generally speaking, the range is +- 10%, which is perfectly logical for RNG variance.
At any rate, the simulator does appear to be currently calculating the magical aspect of SS improperly... but after some testing, I can't find any rhyme or reason to it. Most of the time, it the magical portion hits for 40% of the physical portion. That's nothing more than .36 * 1.3 * 1.08, and that's what the sim assumes. Sometimes, however, it hits for seemingly random amounts like 63% - and it's not some odd anomaly, as it happens fairly often. Analyzing combat logs, I can't seem to link it to any sort of specific buff or what have you.
I'm at a loss as to what's going on there. Something strange.
Ghoul damage is absurdly off the mark; way too low. Likely something to do with how SI/DT are applied, but who knows. It should be over 50% higher than it is.
Aside from that, some small issues; ghoul scales with crit when it still doesn't (likely a bug), FF crits for 2x when it actually does 1.5x (likely a bug), and death coil's damage is too low (beats me why).
I'm sure the kinks will be worked out by Kahorie soon enough, and I can all but guarantee even once this is all fixed the order of stats won't actually change, anyways. How Unholy appears to perform compared to Frost may be currently misrepresented because of all this, but with the current Obliterate bug, that hardly even matters!
Last edited by Consider : 10/14/10 at 12:59 AM.
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10/14/10, 3:19 PM
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#1030
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Von Kaiser
Orc Death Knight
Stonemaul
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I remembered that with the 3.3 version of the sim, I had a similar problem with huge damage ranges (as much as +/- 9k!!) using the silverlight client, but not the hardclient.
Thinking this might have something to do with Silverlight, I tried repeating the raid buffed simulation in my last post on a different computer. All the conditions are the same, but this time I get 13.7kdps...I've tried multiple times and double checked all the settings are the same on both machines, but I consistently get very different results. The damage ranges are still very high, though.
Also, if you look at the simulator output in my last post, it looks like the sim never cast FeS! So that probably explains the very low DPS. I have no idea what could be causing this. I never modified the priority, and in any case the priority is identical between both machines. Does anyone have any idea what could possibly be causing this behavior.
| Ability | Damage done | | | | hits | | | Crits | | | Misses | | Glances | | | TPS | Uptime | | | Total | % | # | Avg | # | % | Avg | # | % | Avg | # | Avg | # | Avg | % | % | | | ScourgeStrike | 1896749156 | 19 | 240538 | 7885 | 147271 | 5684 | 58 | 93267 | 11362 | 37 | 13500 | 5 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | | MainHand | 1731924676 | 17 | 372660 | 4648 | 219816 | 3296 | 56 | 152844 | 6592 | 39 | 21009 | 5 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | | Ghoul | 1612359788 | 16 | 729086 | 2212 | 444713 | 1597 | 61 | 284373 | 3172 | 39 | 717 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | | DeathCoil | 981599501 | 10 | 159406 | 6158 | 101104 | 4510 | 62 | 58302 | 9015 | 36 | 2768 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | | ScourgeStrike+ScourgeStrikeMagical | 780445388 | 8 | 240538 | 3245 | 240538 | 3245 | 100 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | | FesteringStrike | 628814660 | 6 | 59551 | 10559 | 36439 | 7610 | 58 | 23112 | 15208 | 37 | 3439 | 6 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | | Gargoyle | 529603568 | 5 | 128053 | 4136 | 115192 | 3758 | 88 | 12861 | 7521 | 10 | 2185 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | | BloodPlague | 519094976 | 5 | 241599 | 2149 | 152787 | 1573 | 63 | 88812 | 3139 | 37 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 103 | | FrostFever | 513932348 | 5 | 240471 | 2137 | 152459 | 1566 | 63 | 88012 | 3127 | 37 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 102 | | Ghoul: Claw | 488213335 | 5 | 185864 | 2627 | 113728 | 2266 | 61 | 72136 | 3195 | 39 | 191 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | | UnholyBlight | 98114285 | 1 | 159406 | 616 | 159406 | 0 | 100 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | | PlagueStrike | 85095253 | 1 | 12658 | 6723 | 7773 | 4848 | 58 | 4885 | 9705 | 37 | 701 | 5 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | | Army of the Dead | 67702203 | 1 | 911208 | 74 | 819238 | 73 | 90 | 91970 | 88 | 10 | 904 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | | IcyTouch | 64079066 | 1 | 12423 | 5158 | 7888 | 3782 | 62 | 4535 | 7552 | 36 | 222 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | | BloodStrike | 56154995 | 1 | 9906 | 5669 | 5945 | 4055 | 57 | 3961 | 8091 | 38 | 593 | 6 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
DPS 13690(+/- 4033)
Total Damage 10053.88m
RunicPower Total runic power used: 4034026 (1174 wasted)
Threat Per Second 8595
Generated in 24.31 s
Template uh
Priority Unholy
Presence Unholy
Sigil
RuneEnchant
Pet Calculation True
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10/14/10, 6:51 PM
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#1031
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Don Flamenco
Draenei Death Knight
Chants Eternels (EU)
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Thanks for pointing errors. It's easier for me to look into the thousand code lines where there could be a problem.
I don't have time to make a hot fix cause it's late here, but I have found that the coef of DC is 0.15xAP in the sim instead of 0.3. I don't see anything wrong with SS except that the overall damage is low. And it's maybe the default priority that make Festering Strike not cast enough. Maybe putting it higher in the prio would make the trick as it won't use a death rune, just pure blood/frost.
I have also to check in game if the AP/Str coef are correct for the ghoul. Your WWS claw is making 1/2 of your ghoul damage where mine is 1/3.
If someone can check what the AP to STR coef, base AP/Str of the ghoul, I could correct that tomorrow or it will wait until this weekend.
Last edited by Afabar : 10/14/10 at 7:06 PM.
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10/14/10, 7:06 PM
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#1032
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King Hippo
Draenei Death Knight
Dragonblight
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It gets 2 AP per 1 Strength, still, and gets 1.4x of our strength with the glyph. A simple means of testing is Horn of Winter; it adds 506 AP which, based on the fact that it gives us 155*1.15=178.25 str, almost perfectly fits the simple formula of 1.4str * 2.
Claw deals exactly 1.25 times the average auto-attack (and 1.5 times when under the effects of Dark Transformation, of course). Looking at the above sims, the average Claw is way, way below what it should be based on the average (non-glancing) auto-attack. Not sure how it's being calculated, but something's up there.
Last edited by Consider : 10/14/10 at 7:11 PM.
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10/14/10, 7:07 PM
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#1033
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Don Flamenco
Draenei Death Knight
Chants Eternels (EU)
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Pure speculation regarding scourge strike: The 62% SS magical is 40% expected x 1.5, which would indicate a sort of undocumented crit or mastery based random bonus. One option would be the Glyph of Scourge Strike - Spell - World of Warcraft. In the effect part of the spell there is a damage modifier and "Unknown Effect (Effect #0) Value: 9" where the Glyph of Obliterate - Spell - World of Warcraft just have the damage modifier.
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10/15/10, 11:24 PM
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#1034
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Von Kaiser
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Engineering tinkers now stack with normal enchants (just like how BS sockets stack with wrist and glove enchants), if you could add that to the next build it would be much appreciated.
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10/16/10, 7:33 PM
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#1035
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Glass Joe
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A quick sim of my character showed the following:
EP AttackPower 1 (0.75 DPS/per AP)
EP Strength 2.88
EP Agility 0.72
EP CritRating 1.2
EP MasteryRating 1.68
EP HasteRating 1.68
EP ExpertiseRating 1.30
Personal Expertise value 0.48
Before Melee Hit Cap 1.19
EP SpellHitRating 1.35
EP WeaponDPS 5.07
EP WeaponSpeed 266.67
EP AfterSpellHitRating 1.13
pawn Non hit caped Pawn: v1: "Non hit caped": MasteryRating=1.68, HitRating=1.19, CritRating=1.2, Dps=5.07, Strength=2.88, Armor=0.028, Agility=0.72, HasteRating=0, Speed=266.67, ExpertiseRating=1.30, Ap=1, GemQualityLevel=82 )
pawn hit caped Pawn: v1: "Hit caped": MasteryRating=1.68, HitRating=1.35, CritRating=1.2, Dps=5.07, Strength=2.88, Armor=0.028, Agility=0.72, HasteRating=0, Speed=266.67, ExpertiseRating=1.30, Ap=1, GemQualityLevel=82 )
Generated in 529.80 s
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I notice a few things that don't fit what I know about DKs here.
1) Hit Rating is given a higher value on the 'Hit Capped' scale than the non-capped scale.
2) Haste rating has 0 value. ( Edit: whoops, make that no haste value in the scale-format output. The long-form feedback clearly lists one. I've been staring at numbers too long.)
3) Hit and Expertise are worth considerably less than Strength.
I hope this can help get things tuned in accuracy-wise. And if it's off because of some option I missed, feel free to let me know.
Character - Seraphel, Stonemaul US (I know my gear's shabby, I just started this DPS set.)
(Edit: Wow, I don't know what's up with Armory's version of me. Here's a Wowhead profile.
Profiler - Wowhead)
Last edited by Midnightlynx : 10/17/10 at 12:08 AM.
Reason: Solved first problem, discovered a different one.
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