I didn't see this mentioned anywhere else, and I think it's worth noting that Rune Tap no longer generates runic power when used. This is a bit of a minor issue since blood still isn't starved for runic once into it's rotation, but it was nice for building up runic before entering combat along with HoW and D&D.
Deconstructor WMO in case anyone is interested. 6K DPS as 51/2/18. Standard rotation of IT-PS-HS-HS-DS, DC, DS-HS-HS-HS-HS-DC-DC, repeat. blew cooldowns on the heart every time.
standard buffs. 81% uptime on Fallen Crusader.
[edit]: Here's a recount SS...says I was at 6.3K DPS. Not sure what the discrepancy between WMO/Recount is:
Deconstructor WMO in case anyone is interested. 6K DPS as 51/2/18. Standard rotation of IT-PS-HS-HS-DS, DC, DS-HS-HS-HS-HS-DC-DC, repeat. blew cooldowns on the heart every time.
standard buffs. 81% uptime on Fallen Crusader.
With the above rotation, the 1st part of the rotation goes smoothly for me until that first DC. Then it seems like all my runes go on CD unless I pop ERW to continue the rotation. Am i doing it wrong or is this normal?
As far as i know there isn't a cap for ArP (except for the logical 100%). So from the raidbuffs and Grim Toll proc we got ourselves 75% ArP which leaves us 25% (384,75 ArP Rating) to fill up with gear.
The more ArP we stack above the 25% limit the less we benefit from Grim Toll. Going over 100% ArP would clearly be a waste of stats which we could use to improve other stats.
I tried to build this gearset around ArP to get as close to the 25% mark as possible. The gearset i came up with fully benefits from Grim Toll's proc. There are probably other sets of gear that could meet these requirements but this is the one i came up with.
Haven't tried to build a set without Grim Toll, but i think it would be very hard to maintain the expertise/hit cap since you need way more ArP.
Issues:
- This gearset would only have around 26-27% crit
- Dependant on proc
Question: Would this gearset perform better than a gearset without Grim Toll but 40% (example) ArP from gear?
Feel free to correct the math if it's incorrect. I'm wondering what other people think about it.
Edit: this is all assumed if you leave racials or 1% hit aura out of the picture
Keeping in mind this is running slightly below 8% hit rating (Heroic Aura to compensate) and just enough expertise with the Human Sword/Mace racial. Side-grades can be used to mix up ratings and we still haven't seen a great deal of the items available.
With the above rotation, the 1st part of the rotation goes smoothly for me until that first DC. Then it seems like all my runes go on CD unless I pop ERW to continue the rotation. Am i doing it wrong or is this normal?
That will happen on the first iteration of the rotation, not the subsequent ones, due to the rune refresh mechanics. It's been covered earlier in this thread. You will just have to sit on the rune cooldowns. I've found that if I open with HoW right as the boss pulls, that is a free 10 RP and in between the first and second Death Strikes I can get two DCs in while the runes are refreshing.
Again, it's only the first iteration of the rotation where you have this wait. After that everything flows naturally.
I'm sure this is probably a RNG oddity or something similar, but a good friend of mine and I were talking yesterday and he told me about a pug VoA run yesterday on his DK. He mentioned that he noticed his scourge strikes doing the same damage throughout the raid, regardless of whether his diseases were on the target or not, suspecting that the other 4 dk's diseases might have somehow been used. I've been following DK since beta and I know they changed strike damage bonuses to work solely off of the DK's own diseases for good reason, so if this turns out true, it's probably a bug.
However, on the slim chance that it holds true and is working as intended, it could have some pretty interesting effects on raid setup... i.e. what happens if heart strike can get a full 30% bonus from an unholy DK's 3 diseases?
He and I haven't been able to get together and test it out yet to confirm. Has anyone heard anything regarding this?
It's not a "Focus" stat, in the same respect as hit, crit, exp and str are. But when you are exp and hit capped, and have 33%+ crit, you either need to choose haste or ArP as your secondary stat on gear. Arp is just way better then haste, especially so for Blood specs.
@Siyx
That list is not what I'm likely to end up running, and the fact that [Melancholy Sabatons] made it on there bothers me. Must be some poor itemization in Ulduar if they made the list. [Belt of Colossal Rage] in particular seems like a must have.
Some of your numbers seem really out of whack. For instance, 1.91 for crit rating but 0.23 for Agi. It takes ~46 crit rating for 1% crit, versus ~62 Agi for 1% melee only crit. Given that most of our attacks are melee, the weights shouldn't be THAT far apart. Similarly, your values for hit and haste seem weird. I know haste is somewhat less desirable, but again, that's a really low weight, especially given the recent buff.
For overall stat weights, I'm basically waiting until Kahorie puts the now-better-understood Armor Pen model into the DK simulator-- it's really the stat whose value we're most interested in and will determine a few tough gear choices, not to mention signifcantly affect the weight of other stats. Otherwise, a basic ranking of stat priorities is pretty well understood already.
Reading back through, wanted to see if there's any word on this? I know personally I'd like to compare some of the new loot, but without a comparable stat weight on ArP, it's going to be hard.
Offhand, if it's only give ~85% of it's effectiveness after the change to make it 25% better, then ArP only got ~6.25% better than what we previously thought it was, right? (100% + 25%) * 85% = 106.25% or +6.25%. Granted, it's still a 25% buff over it's original self, but the stat weight would only be the 6.25% better. Its' early, so I'm probably wrong, but I'd like to know more about this.
sorry guys for being of topic from BIS items but today I found a really hard question that I need your help with
I used to play 51/0/20 but yesterday I switched to 44/0/27, on boss figurine I can get 3500 dps (3000-3300 with 51/20) but I think I can get more because my gear isnt very good. So here`s the build
and my questions are:
1,ok so best glyphs for this build are without discussion DS and Ghoul, but what about third? should I use DD,Disease or UB?
2, I saw a few guys here going 3/3 morbidity. 2/5 impurity with this build. Isnt this stupid? I am not very good in math bud let me make some noobish unbuffed math:
a, 3/3 morbity = +15 percent DC damage = 15 percent of 443dmg (base DC dmg)= +66,45 dmg to DC
2/5 impurity = +8 percent of my AP= 8 percent of 3563 (my unbuff AP) = +285,04 dmg to spells
so in this case my DC gains +351,49dmg (66,45+285,04) and +285,04 to all spells
b, 5/5 impurity = +20 pecent of my AP= 20 percent of 3563 = 712,6 dmg to spells
so in this case all my spells gaing +712,6 dmg
PLEASE dont screw my I am noob in calculating talents but this is just what I think it is like, in stead of screwing me please tell me where I am wrong. Thanks very much
Unless I'm mistaken, Impurity doesn't work that way. It increases the coeffecient by 4% by each point.
The coeffecient on Death Coil is 0.15 according to the DPS compendium, making 5/5 impurity increase the coeffecient from 15% to 18%.
Death Coil damage is calculated using: B + (C x AP) = D
B=Base damage ( 442 for DC)
C=Coeffecient
and D being the damage.
442+(0.15*4000)=1043 (No impurity)
442+(0.18*4000)=1163 (5/5 impurity)
As far as i know there isn't a cap for ArP (except for the logical 100%). So from the raidbuffs and Grim Toll proc we got ourselves 75% ArP which leaves us 25% (384,75 ArP Rating) to fill up with gear.
The more ArP we stack above the 25% limit the less we benefit from Grim Toll. Going over 100% ArP would clearly be a waste of stats which we could use to improve other stats.
Unfortunately shmuk, there IS a cap on ArP, as per GC over on the official forums:
Okay, here is a fairly technical explanation we put together for how armor pen works.
We didn’t want Armor Penetration Rating to be too powerful against low armor targets, like it had been in BC. We also didn’t want Armor Penetration Rating to be too powerful against high armor targets.
So, we decided on a system where there is a cap on how much armor the Armor Penetration Rating can be applied to. So, the first X armor on the target is reduced by the percentage listed in the Armor Penetration Rating tooltip, and all armor past that X is unaffected. Another way of understanding that is we multiply the percentage in the tooltip times the minimum of the two values: the cap, and the amount of armor on the target after all other modifiers.
Computing the cap is a little tricky unless you are already familiar with how World of Warcraft armor works. There is an armor constant we’ll call C. C is derived as follows (in some pseudocode):
If (level<60)
C=400+85*targetlevel
Else
C=400+85*targetlevel+4.5*85*(targetlevel-59);
For a level 80 target, C=15232.5. For a level 83, C=16635.
The cap for Armor Penetration then is: (armor + C)/3.
A level 80 warrior creature has 9729 armor. C=15232.5. So, the cap is (9729+15232.5)/3=8320.5. Let’s say a player has 30% armor penetration from armor penetration rating and no other modifiers that complicate the calculation (talents, Battle Stance, Sunder Armor, etc.). The game chooses the minimum of 8320.5 and 9729, so 8320.5. That is multiplied by 30% = 2496.15, and so that much armor is ignored. The effective armor on the target is 7232.85 (9729-2496.15). From a player point of view, the armor penetration rating didn’t ignore the full 30%, but instead ignored 25.66%. (85.5% as effective as expected).
These equations should help you be able to test and verify that Armor Penetration Rating is working correctly and as we designed. The tooltip is not actually inaccurate, as it states: “Enemy armor reduced by up to 30.00%.” That "up to" is key.
Please be sure to test without any other effects which modify the armor calculation (Battle Stance, Sunder Armor, Mace Specialization, etc.) as they may involve other systems that add additional complexity to the calculation.
Deconstructor WMO in case anyone is interested. 6K DPS as 51/2/18. Standard rotation of IT-PS-HS-HS-DS, DC, DS-HS-HS-HS-HS-DC-DC, repeat. blew cooldowns on the heart every time.
standard buffs. 81% uptime on Fallen Crusader.
Deconstructor DPS is inflated since the Heart takes 2x damage. A better measure would be Ignis if you didn't get slag potted with 150% haste.
@ the people who are constructing BiS lists: Are you guys sure it's a good idea to skip the 4-piece bonus for extra ArP?
Reading back through, wanted to see if there's any word on this? I know personally I'd like to compare some of the new loot, but without a comparable stat weight on ArP, it's going to be hard.
Offhand, if it's only give ~85% of it's effectiveness after the change to make it 25% better, then ArP only got ~6.25% better than what we previously thought it was, right? (100% + 25%) * 85% = 106.25% or +6.25%. Granted, it's still a 25% buff over it's original self, but the stat weight would only be the 6.25% better. Its' early, so I'm probably wrong, but I'd like to know more about this.
Against debuffed raid bosses, armor pen is about 96% effective. Sunder/ff bring boss armor to ~8089 armor, making the "cap" (8089+15232.5)/3 or about 7774. I won't speculate on how the relative stat weight has changed, but bear in mind that armor pen does not scale linearly with itself. The last 50 points of armor pen rating (bringing target armor to zero) are worth about 45% more than the first 50 (if you had no armor pen).
As an interesting side note, the "cap" really doesn't appear to be a cap at all--the OP in the thread GC responded to had 116% armor pen and he was in fact removing 116% of the cap from his target's armor.
The disease rotation is <snip>: IT PS HS HS DS (DC) DS HS HS HS HS DC (DC).<snip>
So what do you do in the 3rd set of runes? The DS that started the 2nd set will turn into two death runes, right? Do you use those for PS/IT? Seems a waste if so...
Unfortunately shmuk, there IS a cap on ArP, as per GC over on the official forums:
So it looks like we're capped at ~70% ArP
That's not really what he's saying. There is no cap besides 100% as far as I understand but instead there is a cap on how ArP is applied. In the combat ratings thread in the class mechanic section there are plenty of examples that make it far more complicated and suggest different caps at different levels of mitigation. For blood I believe our cap would be approximately 1159 with sunder/FF and Blood Gorged up.
Here are some APE values I've scraped together from my sheets:
Assumptions:
Full buffs
Wearing ~BiS T8 gear
Spec= 51/1/19
Glyphs = Dark Death, Deathstrike, DRW
Ghoul uptime is minimal (~50%) and is not effected by most raid buffs but is still included for a more complete overview
Rotation: PS-IT-HS-HS-DS-Dump DS-HS-HS-HS-HS-Dump then repeat
Here are the weights:
Stat
APE
1AP
1.0000
1STR
2.8900
1CRT
1.5600
1HIT (Bfr Cap)
~2.5100
1HIT
~0.5200
1Haste
1.5000
1Exp
2.4700
1AP-R
~2.7500
1AGI
1.3700
1Armor
0.0300
1dps (wpn)
9.8900
Using the latest ArP formulas in the class mechanics forums (seemingly correct). EDIT: It should be noted that ArP does in fact scale differently and increases in value the more you have. I still believe stacking STR first should be the goal for gem slots but there is no argument against stacking as much of both STR and ArP stats as you can.
Using the latest ArP formulas in the class mechanics forums (seemingly correct). EDIT: It should be noted that ArP does in fact scale differently and increases in value the more you have. I still believe stacking STR first should be the goal for gem slots but there is no argument against stacking as much of both STR and ArP stats as you can.
How does your formula look like? I didn't quite get the new one yet. I don't know if it's 100% certain or if there are still guesses.
That list is not what I'm likely to end up running, and the fact that [Melancholy Sabatons] made it on there bothers me. Must be some poor itemization in Ulduar if they made the list. [Belt of Colossal Rage] in particular seems like a must have.
From the items we've seen so far, [Melancholy Sabatons] are still an exceptional pair of boots unless you need extra hit from that slot. While Colossal Rage may be a better belt when you compare the two side by side, it looses it's value when you look at what you need to sacrifice elsewhere to maintain expertise cap without using Belt of the Titans, especially for an Orc who won't have any racial bonuses with Rune Edge or Voldrethar.
So what do you do in the 3rd set of runes? The DS that started the 2nd set will turn into two death runes, right? Do you use those for PS/IT? Seems a waste if so...
I'm using IT, PS, DS, HS, HS, (DC) <at this point i have no runic power and all runes on cooldown, so i basically just auto attack for 3-5 seconds> then it's HS, HS, HS, HS, DS (DC). I pretty much repeat this as best i can.
Sometimes I would end up have only DRs up when it came time to refresh diseases.
04/20/09, 2:47 AM
