I'm still fumbling with my Blood spec getting results all over the map in Ulduar for both disease and diseaseless testing; however, I'd disagree with you regarding AOTD in Ulduar: it's pretty darned good.

Flame Leviathan: moot point

Ignis: You may be able to bust it out right on the pull but it's a possible guild wiper later (molten adds), not recommended

Razorscale: You can pop before one of the ground phases, but it's better during the non-tethered ground phase since it is something of a DPS race at that point.

XT-002: Toss before Heart dropping. Good times here.

Kologarn: Can be used on the Right Arm if you're DPSing that, or perhaps the body; however, be careful as the 25 man Rubble have a nasty PBAoE which can wipe the raid if used poorly. I don't remember that mechanic on 10 man but it might be a problem there too. Probably just throw right off the top and be done with it.

Assembly of Iron: Initial Steelbreaker if you're doing non Hard mode, or perhaps Stormcaller at the end if he's pathing to the other side of the room during his air phase, not tested well here. I wouldn't recommend it with one down and Runemaster still up, too RNGish on Rune of Death.

Auriaya: Jury's still out on initial pull at least in my experience, I didn't try it because we were having so many problems anyway, but if it soaks a pounce it might be a godsend; however, it's going to be a crap shoot regardless given the timer even if it does work until the pull reliably can happen anyway after which it wouldn't be needed. Beyond that after the sentries are down, go nuts for the most part. Feral defender is usually a moot point unless you're going for the achievement, but if you kill the crazy kitty you can toss it without problems during the respawn timer.

Hodir: I was really surprised at the army resilience here, extremely pleasantly surprised even though it might've been somewhat RNGish since I wasn't paying close attention but it was effective in both 10 and 25 man. You can throw during a flash freeze phase if for whatever reason you're not on a safety patch that is in melee range for Hodir instead of IT spamming or whatever. You may get an extra bonus since some tanks will move Hodir upon seeing incoming ice drops on melee.

Freya: It would be a mess here during the add phases, definitely don't do it then. Probably would be solid post add DPS time but I didn't try it.

Thorim: RNG issues on the lightning cone, don't think there's any reasonable method for not running into it on the actual boss fight. Theorizing however, I think in the arena it could be useful especially if your group is having problems with the adds down there, and certainly it'd be beneficial on the gauntlet phase if you're there on a mini without much problem.

Mimiron: drop it on the transition to phase 4 after you've finished up the adds. Very, very good here.

Vezax: You can throw it effectively any time dependent on your role, if you're primary interrupting make sure you do it right after one of his flame calls as to not miss one potentially.

Yogg: I haven't seen this fight other than in videos so can't offer any first hand experience.

Algalon: same as above of course.

BiS should include T8 4P for blood since it gets the most out of the bonus. I haven't found any theoretical combo that does more dps without T8 4P on my spreadsheets. It is possible that I'm wrong though.

Concerning the standard 51/0/20 rotation with the Glyph of Disease (pestilence refreshes diseases on the primary target)...
Is there any role for using pestilence as the primary way to refresh both our diseases in one GCD with one rune? Or is the sacrifice of the IT damage not worth it (ie: better to refresh each manually)?

Cement - in practice I find my dps consistently higher refreshing with it and ps. Almost all of the fights are so movement intensive the pestilence glyph just did not work well.

Hi guys, first time poster here so go easy (+ I'm a noob).

Currently I run the 51/0/20 spec and use the standard blood rotation.
I was wondering what sort of "rotation" or whatnot you guys use on trash mobs and aoe pulls, mobs that would not stay alive for the entire duration of your rotation. Currently, I am just using pestilence, hs, bb to hit as many targets as I can at once.

Thanks for your help.

According to Kahorie's sim, replacing the 4pc T8 bonus with at least 100 ArP from the 2 non-set items yielded higher dps.

My guild has only attempted Razor and XT with some close 1% left hp scenario's but have only downed Ignis on 25. I haven't had an oppertunity to run 10 man yet, but I've been watching some video's and haven't gotten a good feel of when would be the most oppertune time, or if its even a good idea to drop ghouls. Again, its one of those things where I just need to get in there and experience the fight before I can honestly determine if I want to drop notd yet or not. I like it personally, I think its more dps than 2/2 rpm if you are hot-to-trot on your cooldowns and timing. The only thing that concerns me is that new trinket and that I'm only 1/3 morbidity right now. I took 1/3 off of someones number crunching post earlier in this thread that the overall dps per point in morbidity wasn't significant enouph that it be considered a "must have" in the unholy tree. With that fancy DC trinket, its probably a different scenario, and I'd most likely drop notd or go 1/3 bcb. I'll make my mind up on that after I get the trinket, no point sweating it right now.

And like Lushen said, that individual mentioned that the 100arp from two items was better but...there is always the possibility that blizzard my try fixing that scenario, and then, you wouldn't look as sexy either... and Vanity is the whole point of the game anyways right? Or more like hamsters in a wheel (i.e., achievements). I like lookin' sexy in mah tier peices, however I can't say I like the t8 models that much really.

My Dk knowledge is rather limited as I raid on a holy priest however after a long chat with a guild DK I was wondering about the viability of a blood DW spec.

Something like this: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Was what I was thinking, however I was curious if anyone has run wws logs with a similar blood DW spec

Can you come up with a gear combination like this? In my theoretical 4 Piece T8 combination I had almost 400 ArP already, I don't see being able to come up with 100 more while still maintaining appropriate hit and expertise levels.

Also keep in mind that Ghostcrawler recently released the numbers as to how ArP works, so Kahorie's might not be simulating ArP appropriately. Would be best to hold off on the ArP assumptions until the next version of the sim is released.

I will not deny that there are close alternatives. I wont even go as far as to say that my sheets are so accurate. I'm just not seeing how it could be possible to have a clear advantage over 'free' stats. T8 is really not that badly itemized for blood. Slap on a clockwork leggings or shift around some stats and get Ruination and then sit back with your easyish to get T8 (more guaranteed than some).

My best combination of gear thus-far is this: (Single Target not Overall. To have BiS overall STR Gems would be best for AoE etc.)

Item	Gem1	Gem2	BSGem	Enchant
[Conqueror's Darkruned Shoulderplates]	[Fractured Scarlet Ruby]			[Greater Inscription of the Axe]
[Clockwork Legplates]	[Fractured Dragon's Eye]			[Icescale Leg Armor]
[Conqueror's Darkruned Battleplate]	[Fractured Scarlet Ruby]	[Fractured Scarlet Ruby]		Enchant Chest: Powerful Stats
[Conqueror's Darkruned Helmet]	[Chaotic Skyflare Diamond]	[Fractured Dragon's Eye]		[Arcanum of Torment]
[Conqueror's Darkruned Gauntlets]	[Fractured Scarlet Ruby]		[Fractured Scarlet Ruby]	[Enchant Gloves - Crusher]
[Girdle of Embers]			[Fractured Scarlet Ruby]
[Decimator's Armguards]			[Fractured Scarlet Ruby]	[Formula: Enchant Bracer - Greater Assault]
[Melancholy Sabatons]				[Formula: Enchant Boots - Greater Assault]
[Mjolnir Runestone]
[Darkmoon Card: Greatness]
[Sif's Promise]
[Strength of the Automaton]
[Frigid Strength of Hodir]	[Fractured Dragon's Eye]
[Drape of the Drakerider]				[Formula: Enchant Cloak - Greater Speed]
[Voldrethar, Dark Blade of Oblivion]	[Fractured Scarlet Ruby]	[Fractured Scarlet Ruby]		Fallen Crusader
[Sigil of the Vengeful Heart]
Glyph of Death Strike
Glyph of Dark Death
Glyph of Dancing Rune Weapon

Edit: Spelling

Having gone through the posts here, I noticed that this subject was raised indirectly but I couldn't really find a clear answer. Assuming that the Glyph of DRW replaces Glyph of the Ghoul that some people suggested before (so that would make our 3 major glyphs DRW, DD and DS, please correct me if I got it wrong), is 1/3 BCB and 2/2 NotD still a better choise rather than just 3/3 BCB for a 51/2/18 spec?

NOTD is a tough call for a talent for us since we don't have perma ghoul (in standard builds). There are some fights where it does nothing more than lower the cooldown on Ghoul, and there are others where it makes your ghoul live for its duration instead of 5s, and there are yet more fights where your ghoul gets 1 shot regardless of NoTD.

I think that for general all-purpose specs NOTD is probably a good idea. Shorter CD + reduced damage for MOST AE (some still one shot it, IE mimiron rockets) is pretty strong, and the ghoul does good damage. Overall you're looking at a fairly small delta in damage - every place you can put those last 2 points increases damage by "Somewhat" equal amounts - not going to get much more than ~1% total damage per point from them.

You may also be able to play it by ear. I never tank for my raids, not yet, so I have 1 spec with NoTD and one without it. I simply pick the one that fits the fight best. If my ghoul isn't in danger of dying I'll play the one without it. One thing we do need though, is some numbers as what people are getting for total ghoul damage, because this strategy could be completely wrong if it turns out that the increased uptime from NOTD (shorter CD) outweighs all other talent point investments.

Honestly? I have to completely disagree. The only 2 items that are properly itemized are the chestpiece and helm. The other 3 pieces are quite bad...yes, even the gloves.

Sure.

Armor:
Helm: [Conqueror's Darkruned Helmet] (71 crit, 49 ArP, 105 str) – 8 crit rating
Shoulders: Unknown. We only currently have 1 non-set dps shoulders on the available loot table. But Im certain there are plate shoulders with ArP. I would guess 60-80 ArP from a shoulder piece is possible.
Chest: [Conqueror's Darkruned Battleplate] (113, 77 crit, 55 expertise) – 6 crit rating
Bracers: [Bitter Cold Armguards] (64 str, 42 crit, 34 ArP) – 4 str ****
Gloves: [Gauntlets of the Wretched] (91 str, 39 hit, 60 ArP)
Belt: [Girdle of Embers] (98 str, 60 crit, 49 ArP)
Pants: [Clockwork Legplates] (121 str, 62 hit, 78 ArP) – 4 str ****
Boots: [Melancholy Sabatons] (88 str, 54 crit, 83 ArP)

Trinkets, rings, neck, cloak:
Neck: [Frigid Strength of Hodir] (74 str, 48 ArP, 40 hit) – 4 str ****
Cloak: [Drape of the Drakerider] (72 str, 46 crit, 36 ArP)
Ring 1: [Bladebearer's Signet] (72 str, 36 Expertise, 46 hit) or [Strength of the Automaton] (72 str, 46 crit, 36 ArP) or [Power Enhancing Loop] (68 str, 35 hit, 43 ArP)
Ring 2: [Sif's Promise] (72 str, 42 crit, 42 expertise)
Trinket 1: Greatness (90 str)
Trinket 2: Grim Toll (83 hit) - 612 ArP for 10 seconds every minute = ~102 ArP

Weapon:
Voldrethar: (112 str, 85 crit, 70 ArP) – 6 crit rating

Underlined portions next to the items denote socket bonuses.
**** = Bold Dragon's Eye placement.

Total ArP: 507 ArP without counting shoulders and using [Bladebearer's Signet] and [Sif's Promise]. With ArP shoulders and maybe an ArP ring or two, that will easily top 600.

So in other words there's no final verdict yet. I was concerned about the possibility that NotD was suggested having the sweet synergy with Glyph of the Ghoul in mind and the fact that this is no longer the optimal glyph choise. I guess we're probably looking at a Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft or a Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (mind you I only hastily filled the glyphs and 18 points at unholy because that's what my question is about).

Again, please correct me if I got something wrong. From what I gather BCB is a decent dps per talent point boost and I'm kinda interested in knowing what the optimal choise is with the current data. Of course, I guess a possible answer would also be that the 2 points spent in RPM are better off spent in unholy for a 51/0/20 spec with both 3/3 BCB and 2/2 NotD.

I use NotD with a 51/2/18 build. 3/5 Necrosis, 1/3 BcB, 2/2 NotD. That temp ghoul puts out some serious dps in the time hes up, and the AoE damage avoidance really helps out a lot (council, kologarn, xt, etc). Not to mention the AotD cooldown really does make a difference.

Because the 20% is not that big of a bonus. Maybe 3-5% more damage on Heart Strike, which is usually around 30% of our damage. Thats an extra...1.5% dps, maximum?

100+ ArP will not only affect Heart Strike, but also Death Strike and our normal white hits.

The 4pc set bonus is a 3.2% Heart Strike damage increase.

Normally the bonus from diseases for Heart strike is 20%. a 20% bonus to this is a 4% overall bonus. so 4*.8(100%-20%) = 3.2% gain.

3.2% gain seems not so bad imo.

But...it is. Its a 3.2% gain to 30% of our damage. Thats a 0.96% gain to overall damage. Which is even lower than my projected 1.5%.

I guarantee that 100+ ArP gives more benefit than 0.96%.

But is it worth swapping out all the +Str gems for +ArP gems?

I originally thought it was 3.3% and I just realized the mistake I made there that made it not 3.3%. It is 100/1.2 not 100-20 so that would mean 4 * .83333 or 3.33% and not 3.2%