There Will Be Blood (DPS) - Meet the new thread/Same as the old thread - Page 52

Nifty01 · 05/19/09, 6:30 AM

Pets don't trigger mines or clouds, so that's nothing to worry about.

Bloodworms do indeed die alot, still they are a dps increase over IBP. The only fight where you shouldnt spec them is Yogg since they tend to run towards untanked crusher tentakles leading to crushes (one)hitting your raid.

frozenkex · 05/19/09, 8:38 AM

Originally Posted by Nifty01

Bloodworms do indeed die alot, still they are a dps increase over IBP. The only fight where you shouldnt spec them is Yogg since they tend to run towards untanked crusher tentakles leading to crushes (one)hitting your raid.

Interrupting Diminish Power sounds like great thing to me :P, and Crushes are no different from when an actual tank receives it, it's 8yard AoE afaik, so no raid member should ever be close.

tetracycloide · 05/19/09, 9:10 AM

Originally Posted by Zanador

I still hear people constantly talking about the 6200 AP threshold. This was calculated before the "nerf" to ArP that capped it at 100%- does this still apply now?

In addition to the 6200 AP threshold having never actually been real ArP has not yet been nerfed and the meaning of 'capped at 100%' is not yet clear.

Kaejin · 05/19/09, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by Nifty01

Bloodworms do indeed die alot, still they are a dps increase over IBP. The only fight where you shouldnt spec them is Yogg since they tend to run towards untanked crusher tentakles leading to crushes (one)hitting your raid.

I actually respecced last night to give them a go while I went through ZG to farm mounts and gold. Overall it feels like the healing over time I get from using 3/3 Bloodworms vs Rune Tap and 2/3 Imp rune tap is pretty close. The worms have the added benefit of eating Bloodlord's charges and other abilities like that. I'll see how they do in Ulduar next week.

Crewell · 05/19/09, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by tetracycloide

In addition to the 6200 AP threshold having never actually been real ArP has not yet been nerfed and the meaning of 'capped at 100%' is not yet clear.

I'm fairly certain they mean that if you gain over 100% armor penetration it will only count as 100%. You can not send a target into a negative armor value any more.

The other part commented on by Blizzard leads me to believe that mobs will start to have a base mitgation value that is not armor based.

yek366 · 05/19/09, 11:29 AM

From my most recent WWS when I was blood, my bloodworms were doing ~100 dps. That makes it 200 hps. Rune tap is 10% health, 16.67% with 2/3 improved. Raid buffed I have ~27k health, making that a 4500 heal, every 40 seconds. Do the math and get ~112 hps. With 3/3 improved, it become a 5400 heal every 30 seconds for 180 hps. In the end this is still personal preference and how much you need on demand heals. I choose to go with death pact for a heal, or DS spamming if I am that desperate.

Kinolas · 05/19/09, 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by yek366

From my most recent WWS when I was blood, my bloodworms were doing ~100 dps. That makes it 200 hps. Rune tap is 10% health, 16.67% with 2/3 improved. Raid buffed I have ~27k health, making that a 4500 heal, every 40 seconds. Do the math and get ~112 hps. With 3/3 improved, it become a 5400 heal every 30 seconds for 180 hps. In the end this is still personal preference and how much you need on demand heals. I choose to go with death pact for a heal, or DS spamming if I am that desperate.

Keep in mind when debating Bloodworms vs Rune Tap is that RT consumes a Blood Rune and a GCD.

Crewell · 05/19/09, 1:04 PM

Originally Posted by Kinolas

Keep in mind when debating Bloodworms vs Rune Tap is that RT consumes a Blood Rune and a GCD.

That can usually be managed with a quick Blood Tap (if you don't have a spare Blood/Death rune) seeing as Blood specs really don't have another use for it. I realize the Blood Tap counters a little bit of of what you are trying to do with Rune Tap. I personally think it's better to give up the damage of 1 Heart Strike if it means not being dead.

Happee · 05/19/09, 2:03 PM

Originally Posted by Zanador

The main difference that the proposed cap would have is that Grim Toll and Mjolnir's Runestone would not be effective together anymore. The two of them combined proc'd will gwt to 100%, without even having any ArP gear.

With that in mind, if this change goes through, grim toll and mjo will be great by themselves but not really good together.

This is not completely true. Over in the druid feralbynight thread, someone used a weeks worth of logs to estimate the overlap time when wearing both trinkets. It was somewhere between 19%-27% based on how much running around the fight required. In other words, 70% to 80% of the time when you are getting the benefit of a proc, it is only one trinket; and combining the trinkets should increase this uptime.

This means that the combined trinkets will still give a big increase in your average ArP rating, but be slightly less effective when they proc together. We would need more parsed logs and/or simulations to work out if this reduction would warrant dropping one of the trinkets.

Feru · 05/19/09, 3:13 PM

Because Rune Tap consumes a rune and a GCD (even if you blood tap, that rune could have been used on a HS), I consider IBP and BWorms considerably better talents. The only situation in all of Ulduar where I've felt that Rune Tap may have been useful is inside of Yogg's illusion room if you enter with already-low health and your healer is late to enter. But even then, I simply chose to be safe and sacrifice tentacle DPS by staying near the brain (which actually gave me more time DPSing the brain). I consider IBP to be a great talent, though. It's passive, therefore doesn't interfere with rotations, allowing all of the AoE healing and HoTs going around the raid to be slightly more effecient. I take 2/2 IBP and 2/3 BWorms for these reasons.

Matkap · 05/19/09, 11:04 PM

Just wanted to point out that Glyph of Desease now properly renews both deseases even if there is less than 0.5 seconds left, as it has been said a few pages back that this bug was one of the reasons not to use it, even if I dont really think it will make any difference in what glyphs we use for dps, I guess its nice to know. Not really sure when this was fixed but I hadnt seen anything about it.

Kaejin · 05/19/09, 11:17 PM

The thing about blood worms is that they're not always there when you need them to be. Anything with some AoE can take them out of the picture as soon as they enter. Mandokir, for example, will pretty much stomp them out every time he does a WW, leaving you wormless until you get another proc. Rune Tap's hps is more reliable. I'm pretty convinced that it's really just up to preference and situation. Worm's dps and somewhat better hps don't mean anything if they're constantly getting crushed.

Alborak · 05/19/09, 11:24 PM

Originally Posted by Kaejin

The thing about blood worms is that they're not always there when you need them to be. Anything with some AoE can take them out of the picture as soon as they enter. Mandokir, for example, will pretty much stomp them out every time he does a WW, leaving you wormless until you get another proc. Rune Tap's hps is more reliable. I'm pretty convinced that it's really just up to preference and situation. Worm's dps and somewhat better hps don't mean anything if they're constantly getting crushed.

Part of their power is being targeted. They eat many spells that have bounce or "Cap and distribute" damage effects. They are also valid targets for some spells and will straight up nullify them (The hammer in Thorim phase 1 arena comes to mind). In fact, they are more for this purpose than healing, since most AE effects that you will take damage from, will also kill the worms. Well, that and their damage is why I take them over RT.

AtheistGod · 05/19/09, 11:38 PM

Originally Posted by Matkap

Just wanted to point out that Glyph of Desease now properly renews both deseases even if there is less than 0.5 seconds left, as it has been said a few pages back that this bug was one of the reasons not to use it, even if I dont really think it will make any difference in what glyphs we use for dps, I guess its nice to know. Not really sure when this was fixed but I hadnt seen anything about it.

The bug was that BP drops if it ticks with less than 3 secs left. That's the main problem with glyph of disease.

Kaejin · 05/20/09, 12:01 AM

Originally Posted by Alborak

Part of their power is being targeted. They eat many spells that have bounce or "Cap and distribute" damage effects. They are also valid targets for some spells and will straight up nullify them (The hammer in Thorim phase 1 arena comes to mind). In fact, they are more for this purpose than healing, since most AE effects that you will take damage from, will also kill the worms. Well, that and their damage is why I take them over RT.

I acknowledged this earlier, but you have to keep in mind that it isn't strictly an advantage. Zelik's holy chain lightning and Thorim's chain lightning get stronger the more things they chain and Steelbreaker gets electrical charges from dead pets (though I would hope minions don't count).