There Will Be Blood (DPS) - Meet the new thread/Same as the old thread - Page 6

salviastria · 04/15/09, 12:39 AM

This is a webstats of our Ulduar run tonight, with me as blood, This Spec

Glyphs shown in Talent Spec were glyphs I used, I plan to use Dark Death/DS/Disease most likely once all those glyphs are up and available to purchase. Rotation was simple priority, IT PS DS HS HS first half, then DS if my runes arent converted to death, HS if they are and my diseases aren't going to fall off. Didnt apply diseases for AOE, just spammed HS.

REALLY liking the new blood, the self healing is intense. We 1 shot Flame Levi then did ~4 attempts on XT until we found out he was bugged, so then we did 2 attempts at Razorscale...then the instance servers died.

Wow Web Stats

Its all mushed together, but I was happy with the results

Yogi226 · 04/15/09, 3:10 AM

Originally Posted by Zymm

I've been playing around with this spec: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft and I've been doing the rotation everyone seems to agree on: IT -> PS -> HS x 2 -> DS -> DC(dump) -> HS x4 -> DS -> DC(dump), repeat

However on each of the Rune dumps I'm left sitting their waiting for my blood runes to refresh so I can start Heart Striking again. Is this what others are experiencing? Or am I doing something wrong? I was under the impression that the rotation should keep us with runes to use for abilities all the time.

I've been running into the very same problem. I've always seem to had this problem with any blood spec and I can't seem to figure out why. Any suggestions?

Redlimit · 04/15/09, 7:33 AM

I didn't get a chance to log on last night, but here is the build I am currently considering for Blood DPS:

51/0+2/18+2
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...0&version=9767

This spec leaves me with 51/0/18 and two points left to spend. My initial choices are Runic Power Mastery and Night of the Dead (both proven to deliver solid DPS increases), but upon further reflection, 2/3 Blood-Caked Blade seems competitive as well. I could also slide down to 1/2 Epidemic, but I prefer 2/2 for the flexibility and reliability even with bad latency.

I did some light testing on the PTR but couldn't come to any solid conclusions in my limited time available on which seemed to be preforming better.

So I guess my question is two-fold: Out of 2/2 RPM or 2/2 NotD, which one offers larger returns, or are they both outclassed by 2/3 (possibly 3/3) BCB?

Kyin77 · 04/15/09, 8:25 AM

First off, I am new to the blood DPS scene as I am coming from Unholy tank/dps.

With the new changes to blood and duel spec I am looking for a dps spec that I can switch to for bosses that I am not MT. Right now I am debating between staying UH for the raid buffs that it offers (my guild only does 10m and pugs 25 and is 80% caster dps) or learning blood for the single target dps.

For blood I like the 51/0/20 spec listed here but was wondering for those that wanted to pick up UB why no one has mentioned a 44/0/27 build picking up both UB and ghoul.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...0&version=9767

You would loose 10% damage and 10% armor pin but pick up UB + ghoul. What I am wondering would a ghouls constant damage over take the loss of Blood Gorged + DRW.

RobeNWizardHat · 04/15/09, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by Zymm

I've been playing around with this spec: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft and I've been doing the rotation everyone seems to agree on: IT -> PS -> HS x 2 -> DS -> DC(dump) -> HS x4 -> DS -> DC(dump), repeat

However on each of the Rune dumps I'm left sitting their waiting for my blood runes to refresh so I can start Heart Striking again. Is this what others are experiencing? Or am I doing something wrong? I was under the impression that the rotation should keep us with runes to use for abilities all the time.

I am having a little trouble with this myself, and I have been using the exact rotation. The old 51/0/20 gave me runes out the wazoo... not quite sure what has changed.

Zymm · 04/15/09, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by RobeNWizardHat

I am having a little trouble with this myself, and I have been using the exact rotation. The old 51/0/20 gave me runes out the wazoo... not quite sure what has changed.

What has changed was the initial Oblit at the beginning is now the Death Strike in the middle. The runic power generation should be the same, but with the new rotation you don't have death runes activated for after the first runic power dump. I'm at work so I can't test this out to be 100% sure.

Another thing I noticed: with the new Sudden Doom I find my runic power dumps (ie: Death Coil spams) to be shorter by about 1 gcd. I usually saved my Sudden Doom procs for the RP dump (probably not the best idea) which meant I spent more time in the RP Dump phase, allowing the runes more time to refresh. Now with instant Sudden Doom (which was hitting the target dummy next to my current target....) I don't have that extra time in the RP Dump phase.

Yubble · 04/15/09, 11:24 AM

I've been playing around with this spec: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft and I've been doing the rotation everyone seems to agree on: IT -> PS -> HS x 2 -> DS -> DC(dump) -> HS x4 -> DS -> DC(dump), repeat

However on each of the Rune dumps I'm left sitting their waiting for my blood runes to refresh so I can start Heart Striking again. Is this what others are experiencing? Or am I doing something wrong? I was under the impression that the rotation should keep us with runes to use for abilities all the time.

Of course you'll be waiting for runes w/ that rotation...

IT -> PS doesn't turn into 2 death runes.... meaning your first two runes to pop in the second half will be FR UH because those are the first two runes you used in the first half...

The rotation would have to be DS-HSx2-IT-PS | HSx4-DS

Edit: Unless, of course, during your dc dump you manage to do 2 DC's. Didn't consider that.

bluerage · 04/15/09, 11:36 AM

I hate to say it but I'm afraid that the healing from Deathstrike is going to be nerfed again. Just dpsing on a target dummy I am getting 16k+ DS heal crits. I am loving the healing for Ulduar but I am shocked at just how high it actually is.

Valtiel · 04/15/09, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by bluerage

I hate to say it but I'm afraid that the healing from Deathstrike is going to be nerfed again. Just dpsing on a target dummy I am getting 16k+ DS heal crits. I am loving the healing for Ulduar but I am shocked at just how high it actually is.

I'm assuming that is with Vampiric Blood up and under the effects of Imp. Blood Pres., is that correct?

There's an hefty bit of multiplicative factors to be considered in that case. It's still probably too high to stay untouched, but you need to consider that you're only gonna get 1-2 DS every double rotation in a dps situation. We'll have to wait and see (and bleed).

How about the damage from DS? Are you experiencing a sensible loss from OB damage?

bluerage · 04/15/09, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by Valtiel

I'm assuming that is with Vampiric Blood up and under the effects of Imp. Blood Pres., is that correct?

There's an hefty bit of multiplicative factors to be considered in that case. It's still probably too high to stay untouched, but you need to consider that you're only gonna get 1-2 DS every double rotation in a dps situation. We'll have to wait and see (and bleed).

How about the damage from DS? Are you experiencing a sensible loss from OB damage?

No, I do not have the Vampiric Blood talent. I do have Imp. Blood Presence however. Prior to this patch I was frost so I can't compare blood spec OBs to the current Deathstrike but I will say that Deathstrike is hitting much harder than I was expecting. Unflasked and without food buffs I was hitting for 11.5k Deathstrike crits last night on trash in Ulduar. The instance kept crashing before I could actually test it on Ignis.

I have stacked quite a bit of armor pen gear so that is probably helping things a bit.

Fhaze · 04/15/09, 12:26 PM

The build that I am going right now seems to be putting out pretty decent dmg and isn't being overly effected by the mass amount of raid dmg in Ulduar is 44/0/27.

Rotation being IT, PS, DS, HS, HS (dump) DS, HSx4. Glyphs being Ghoul, Disease and DS. What I am not 100% on at this point is if Blood Gorged will end up making 50/0/21 or 51/0/20 out scale.

Ilena · 04/15/09, 12:28 PM

Here is the question: How good is armor penetration for Blood spec, and how much of it would be enough or cap even considering that we have grim toll equipped? Another thing i would like to ask is, can anyone give me numbers of DS compared to OB both with glyph?
Lets say in case we have cap in armor penetration, which spec would be best? A lot of questions

Alendia · 04/15/09, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by Alborak

There really isn't a reason to consider unholy presence:

IT -> PS -> HSx2 -> DS -> DCx1 = 6 moves x 1.5 = 9 sec
DS -> HSx4 -> DCx2 = 7 moves x 1.5 10.5 sec

Giving you a < 20 second rotation in blood presence. I think that with 4pc t7 you get a few extra DCs in the first half of the rotation, netting a 21 sec round trip, but it still does not warrant UHP. Generally speaking if you can pull off a rotation in blood pres, there no way doing the same rotation in UH will do more damage. You'll be sitting on empty GCDs and you'll be losing 15% damage on all specials.

First, I will say that I agree that Blood Presence is the best presence for blood spec. With that out of the way, the issue with the rotation that prompts people to consider Unholy Presence is the timing of the moves more than the total time they take. Consider the rotation above (ignore haste and latency for now):

0.0 IT
1.5 PS
3.0 HS
4.5 HS
6.0 DS
7.5 DC
(wait for frost and unholy runes to return)
11.5 DS
13.0 HS
14.5 HS
16.0 HS
17.5 HS
19.0 DC
20.5 DC
22.0 Start new rotation

2 seconds over budget. Moving the last DC to the first gap will get back most of that time, but you're probably losing some DS damage from low RP there and you haven't even figured out where you're fitting in your periodic casts like HoW. Add in the benefits of the speed increase from Unholy Presence and it starts to look pretty tempting.

Silverbreeze · 04/15/09, 1:00 PM

Originally Posted by Valtiel

I'm assuming that is with Vampiric Blood up and under the effects of Imp. Blood Pres., is that correct?

There's an hefty bit of multiplicative factors to be considered in that case. It's still probably too high to stay untouched, but you need to consider that you're only gonna get 1-2 DS every double rotation in a dps situation. We'll have to wait and see (and bleed).

How about the damage from DS? Are you experiencing a sensible loss from OB damage?

Unfortunately not. Without using Improved Blood Presence, nor Vampiric Blood, I'm healing myself for over 15k with good Death Strike crits. It's something that definitely will be changed, although we do only use Death Strike twice per rotation, crits are not exactly few and far between, and it will definitely cause an uproar in PvP.

The problem would be fixing (nerfing) Death Strike's healing for Blood without the collateral damage that Frost and Unholy would receive because of it. I would hazard a guess that a solution would be to make the talents Improved Death Strike and Might of Morgraine give little to no extra healing from the extra damage they give Death Strike.

As for Obliterate / Death Strike damage, I was 51/0/20 before 3.1, and while my Obliterate is no longer glyphed so I can't compare them side to side now, I can easily tell that my Death Strike damage now is much higher than what my Obliterate damage used to be while it was glyphed, it's a great improvement.

Hel-ge · 04/15/09, 1:30 PM

So what's up with the rumors I've heard that diseaseless blood still works fine if u use DS instead?