He's not smoking anything... he specifically said in his explanation that the first rotation will skim near the end of Frost Fever, but the subsequent rotations will not have the same problem.
I honestly cannot understand what I am doing wrong. I even tried it in OS last night and could not consistently keep both diseases up for the full rotation.
Yes, the numbers work out on paper. But this is not a game of paper. It's a game of moving out of lava walls and void zones, which means no rotation that is that close will be perfect.
I will just keep 2/2 epidemic, 3/3 morbidity, 3/3 revenous dead, 5/5 necrosis, and 2/3 BCB and be happy with it.
The non-perma ghoul damage just doesn't do enough to warrant the points in NoTD from my testing.
I'm using Excel to try and compare diseased and diseaseless. If anyone had ideas about a good diseaseless rotation it would be helpful.
A good pair of rotations to compare would probably be:
HS-HS-DS-HS-HS-DC-DC
HS-HS-HS-HS-DS-DC
and
IT-PS-HS-HS-DS-DC-DC
DS-HS-HS-HS-HS-DC
Both are fairly simple and the only real difference is the diseases. This should make comparisons easier. In both cases, the 2 RP loss per cycle is made up by refreshing HoW every few rotations, or possibly using BT+HS.
Edit: As people will no doubt leap to point out, these are only the repeating parts of the cycle. Both rotations have a slightly different startup.
I'm using Excel to try and compare diseased and diseaseless. If anyone had ideas about a good diseaseless rotation it would be helpful.
Pre-3.1 the Diseaseless rotation I used was OBx2 HSx2 Repeat. Try with DSx2 HSx2 and see how that does, I would guess.
And as an FYI, I don't see it coming out on top and, as with the last diseaseless breakthrough, it will likely be patched to not work later. Blizzard has stated numerous times that diseases are an integral mechanic of the Deathknight class and they do not want diseaseless to be a viable option. Maybe on weak trash but definitely not on solid rotations. I can't find the quote from Ghostcrawler right now but I will edit later if I stumble across it.
I will say that diseased blows diseaseless out of the water. This is purely because diseased scales better with AP. I never tested armor values above 0 however diseaseless is hit harder by armor. Weapon damage and crit both scale better with diseaseless than diseased but even at an impossible 100% crit chance and using voldrethar diseased was behind diseaseless at 5000 AP. Since even favoring diseaseless by giving 100% crit 100% ArP and a low 5000 AP doesn't allow it to overcome diseased I don't think it ever will.
Edit: To Lazareth: I tried that out and that didn't even do as well as the previous diseaseless rotation.
Edit 2: Ya i remember that quote and expected them to fix it if diseaseless did come out on top. It's just that with the switch from OB to DS I was wondering if the 0 impact diseases had on it would tip the scales back to diseaseless. But it seems Blizzard knew what they were doing since it takes numbers such as 100% crit 0 armor sub 3k AP and voldrethar for diseaseless to beat diseased.
Hey what should we do now that DS just got nerfed into the ground? Stick with DS specs or move back to OB?
Where do you see that? I've seen no mention of it being "nerfed" into the ground. Source?
My question is about stat weights. I was looking at the old stat weights done by zyrm I think, and wondered what changed for blood, if anything? I think the 25% buff to Haste and ArPen would be the only thing, correct? Anyone have some napkin math stat weights they'd like to share or link me to find one? I Searched the FAQ and the old Blood forum and didn't find anything.
Ah sorry, I was just reading from the class forums on the WoW website, also I was doing some tests and DS crits only heal me for barely 3k
But if I have my numbers correct reading from these forums, didn't DS only have a very small increase over OB? I'm just wondering if we should respec back to OB rotations or still keep on using DS
So are we keeping Sigil of Awareness as blood or the new Vengeful Heart?
Some napkin math:
SoVH = +380 to DC
SoA = +315 to DS
Standard rotations have 2 DS every rotation, with 3 DC in that same period. A rough modeling of Sudden doom is to apply 15% of a death coil to each HS, so with 6 HS per rotation thats 6(0.15) = .9 of another Death Coil.
Vengeful Heart: 380x3.9 = 1482 extra damage / rotation.
Awareness: 315x2 = 630 extra damage / rotaion.
Awareness does have the benefit of the MoM crit multiplier and a higher crit rate, but that should not be enough to overcome more than double base difference. Vengeance should be a pretty clear upgrade. Now only if I had done this before I let it go to the tank
Alright I have been trolling the DK threads for quite some times now, and with mild success.
However after 3.1 my dps hit the floor. I was just starting to get my dps to around 4.5k on boss fights in naxx (pre 3.1). Now in Uld i am avging 2.3k dps.
I run a 51/0/20 spec, I pop my DRW RD and trinket during blood lust, i try and keep my DRW up at optimal times. I do not have points in NoTD instead i have necrosis and bcb maxed.
I do DS>IT>PS>HS>HS (Runic Dump) DS>DS>HS>HS (Rinse and repeat) Is it better *on a single target* to spam heart strikes instead of the ds's? Would it be better to keep the runic power up for more DS damage? I have Glyph of DS, Dark Death, Ghoul.
Any insight would be amazing, I am sick and tired of being the bottom of the pile.
Alright I have been trolling the DK threads for quite some times now, and with mild success.
However after 3.1 my dps hit the floor. I was just starting to get my dps to around 4.5k on boss fights in naxx (pre 3.1). Now in Uld i am avging 2.3k dps.
I run a 51/0/20 spec, I pop my DRW RD and trinket during blood lust, i try and keep my DRW up at optimal times. I do not have points in NoTD instead i have necrosis and bcb maxed.
I do DS>IT>PS>HS>HS (Runic Dump) DS>DS>HS>HS (Rinse and repeat) Is it better *on a single target* to spam heart strikes instead of the ds's? Would it be better to keep the runic power up for more DS damage? I have Glyph of DS, Dark Death, Ghoul.
Any insight would be amazing, I am sick and tired of being the bottom of the pile.
Could be your rotation, im running IT-PS-HS-HS-DS-DC >> DS-HS-HS-HS-HS-DC-DC and it seems pretty nice. Im pretty sure HS spam is better than DS spam because you have to factor in your sudden doom procs as well.
Not that it matters for DPS specifically (although it made us very low maintenance) it appears that Death Strike has indeed been hot fixed. Although I have yet to find anything officially stated you can easily witness it for yourself by testing it.
One of my death strikes which hit for 2878 only healed me for 1152.
1152/2878 = 0.40
So a two disease death strike is only healing for 40% of the damage done.
Seems like a pretty drastic change in the healing received from this ability (although it was arguably way too high before). For those of you who like to solo old content it may prove to be drastically more difficult.
[e] - Link provided in next post as official confirmation.
While I'm not blood dps this seems an appropriate place for it...I swapped to my blood tanking spec and hit the training dummies a few times to se ehow bad the nerf is, seems that it's now a 0.4x damage:healing ratio. Death strike heals were completely gutted :/
I know in theory and on testing of dummies/patchwerk type fights disease will win over for sure, but so far in Uludar done 4 bosses. Razor just going diseaseless i found way better due to adds and ended up 4.5k dps topping meter in 10man, but basically is has a fair bit of movement and burst is needed when razor lands for a bit. Using diseases doesnt provide this.. Then we had Constructor and due to catching bombs disease fall off etc and the wrong runes on cd when i get back it just messes with rotation and lowers dps. Tried Ignis we didnt take him yet but i found here even there had to move out on occasions and rotation being messed up a bit due to this. Are the bosses further on less on adds/movement?
Im happy though with new mace im up to 33% armor penetration no gems and with sunder on hit like a truck.
p.s On the Ds healing nerf.. for pve im a bit glad i and another dk from my guild were having aggro problems because of it i think even with vigilance.
I made a quick suggestion in the previously posted thread, figured I'd mention it here:
Improved Death Strike: Increases the damage done by Death Strike by 15/30% and reduces the amount of healing done by Death Strike by 25/50%.
This at least lets the other Unholy/Frost guys maintain a significant self-heal from Death Strike and still lets us keep a handy self-heal to keep us in the Blood Gorged range.
I'm all for a nerf to the healing it did, but as it is now a 10k crit (which is about what I average in raids) yields 4k healing. Not too impressive.
I'm all for a nerf to the healing it did, but as it is now a 10k crit (which is about what I average in raids) yields 4k healing. Not too impressive.
Being able to heal for 2-4k with one of our main attacks is actually still damn good. Sure, it's not 18k, but that's broken. With the old Death Strike, the first night trying bugged Ignis I was able to keep myself alive on my own. With the current version, it still takes a lot of stress off the healers. Health Pot and Healthstone are 4-5k heals usable once per fight. We can heal that much every few seconds if needed (not counting Rune Tap also).
As for the discussion about diseaseless versus diseased, I think we can put that one to rest pretty fast. From my XT-002 Deconstructor parse:
Assuming 1/2 Epidemic, you'd get 6 ticks of diseases. That's 4098 damage from FF, and 3948 from BP. Add in 20% damage bonus to your Heart Strikes:
Avg HS: 3924
20% bonus x 6 HS = 3924
Total damage from IT + PS: 15401
Average Death Strike: 5246
Really, the main reason diseaseless even became viable was that Obliterate removed diseases and Necrosis was too powerful to pass up. When diseases run their full course, they do enough damage to justify using them. Disease damage should never be overlooked, and it's definitely the way to go now.
So has DS damage itself been nerfed (not just the healing). Anyway after seeing the healing nerf i wasn't suprised, but i went and was messing around with a test dummy.. 2 days ago i was pulling about 3.3-3.5k self buffed on the test dummy.. went back today.. i was at like 2.6k.. my death strike seemed to be critting way lower then what i remembered.. has there been a ninja nerf on this besides the heal?
I was just wondering through with the current buffs to some of the other stats for melee and with the Dk changes. Since most Dks are going for wither the 51/0/20 build or the 50/0/21 build. Wouldn't we want to have a little bit of more haste because of necrosis and BCB? or would we still only take the haste that comes with our tier gear?
Has anyone else had problems with DRW only staying up for 10 seconds instead of 15?
Today i picked up 2 pts in rune mastery and DRW would stay up for 15 seconds when it should be 18.
Am i missing something?
Where are you getting these tooltips from? I suspect people are looking at old information. My in game tooltip is correct, it currently reads ... 5 seconds plus 1 sec per 10 additional runic power .... This is how DRW operates (without the glyph).
DRW is confusing though, because the tooltip reads the same as Gargoyle, where the additional time is based upon periodic runic power drain. Gargoyle is "working as intended" according to GC Blue Post. DRW on the other hand, consumes all the RP up front, and has a duration based on the amount of RP you summon it with. The tooltips read the same, but the abilities behave differently, so something will likely get changed.
I don't yet have the gylph for DRW, but I do seem to get 11 seconds out of a 100 RP DRW. This is the correct time per the tooltip. Glyphed, it should then last for 16 (if you summon with 100 RP, longer with more RP). It's possible there is a bug with more than 100 RP though, or a combination of that and glyph.
Edit for clarification: My tooltips in game are not displaying correctly. It seems to be an isolated issue with me as I haven't been able to find anyone who could replicate the situation. Either way it is 5 seconds per 10 runic power, see a post or two above for the maximum duration.
04/17/09, 2:27 PM
