Varlak

Did you tried to remove those 2 point from mobidity to put them into Necrosis ?

I feel like +8% dmg on your second best DPS tools would be bether then DnD beeing on a15sec cooldown rather then 30sec.

But its also depend if your like me and spam DnD and Winter Horn betwins pull to keep your RP maxed.

well I'll try to run a test with your spec then mine so see the difference vs dummy to see if its really notricable.

Also do you have the parse betwin No morbidity and no outbreak vs rk5 Necrosis ? I'm wondering if outbreak bonus is applyed befour or after the %dmg bonus from having diseases on target.

To see if outbreak is realy a +20% to total SS ability or if it is just on the base number wich could make a big difference.


Edit: Also as I see Blood caked blade count as for only 2.9% of your total DPS while your melee dmg is 18.3%

I'm woundering if specind out of blood caked blade and morbidity to get rk5 Necrosis wouldn't be bether in therm for single target DPS ?

Actualy Necrosis add + 22% -%miss rate spell dmg suffer, to melee damage (20% from Necrosis itself + 10% applyed to the shadow damage from black ice).

Blood caked-blade is only 2.9% of your total dps while your necrosis-less melee dps count as 18.3% of your total dps.

SO I think it would worth testing a build with no blood caked-blade and no morbidity spec in favor of rk3 outbreak and rk5 Necrosis.

 

radon

Pretty much the standard UH rotation, prioritising death coil to a strike if 4 of my runes are on long cooldown and i'm close to cap. Gargoyle on heart as soon as it pops followed by a BL, was also making sure all runes were ready for diseases + 2 ss right before the heart and have at least 80-90ish rp. Next time i'll try to summon army before the heart and see how it goes as people suggested on previous page.
Don't have report for that but i'll certainly post it in here when we manage to kill it. My point in that post was that having necrosis didnt matter much and those points in blood compensate with -threat utility, some rp5 and 2hspec. As for iup, i'm really looking forward for some more feedback in here about how good it is further deep into ulduar.

 

The Ghede

I'd say the 1000 AP proc still is better. DMC: Death is more a trinket for casters or as a 2nd trinket, other than mirror of truth, if you got unlucky on procs.

Cheers!

 

Wynna

While very impressive I'm curious (as everyone) if you wouldn't have done even better with 12/0/59. If methods' numbers still hold, going from 12/0/59 to 7/10/54 you'd lose Bladed Armor + Necrosis and get only Improved Icy Touch, Runic Power Mastery and Black Ice. Now of course Black Ice is amazing but the first tier of frost is just incredibly lackluster. On Ignis for example Necrosis 5/5 accounted for ~3.4% of my dps (pyro rockets do that much?), which summed up with Bladed Armor should more then make up for Black Ice.

 

Mendoza

The most interesting question for me is how you have so many disease ticks - you should have about 120 of each for a 6 minute fight and have about double that. I guess it's from disease and pestilence on the scrap bots, but anyway that's 10%+ of your dps that isn't on the boss I'm not having a go at you, even without that your numbers are good and about what I'm getting with 0/10/61 once you remove the double disease ticks.

I am envisaging them and I simply disagree. XT-002 only has movement for bombs (where you're not dpsing anyway), and on Razorscale you only move once a new pack appears or the boss lands. In either case the point is less that and more that the first thing you cast when in melee range is PS or SS, and from that point you have desecration until you next move. I can't think of any fights where I'm dpsing and moving so quickly that I'm not in a desecration area. Possibly you haven't actually used it since 3.1 but it's basically up the entire time I'm in melee range.

 

radon

I didn't take morbidity for d&d (i dont dnd on single targets), but for 10% dc damage (also glyphed for it). Also lower cd d&d is still better than necrosis on razorscale. If i could, i would max morbidity.
And afaik necrosis doesnt benefit from debuffs and other talents anymore (like black ice) but is straight percentage of white attacks. So point for point, BcB seems slightly more valuable.
BcB probably is lower percentage due to reasons like pestilencing adds from time to time (you can see how high % disease ticks are).
Taking talents out of morbidity and BcB as you suggest, it would be gaining -20% of 18%- and losing 10% damage from DC, and 3%ish BcB, and worse aoe on adds, which i dont prefer.

You may be right about bladed armor, didn't have a chance to test variations (but i certainly will). As for pyro, its around %2 of my damage on a dummy. It is slightly under 3 points of necrosis, but puting 5 points in necrosis means losing morbidity, which i dislike.

 

radon

*By the way, pyro benefits from blood presence and has your crit chance hiting 1900ish, criting 3kish. Even if it never crits 1900 / 45 = 42 dps minimum and unbound from GcD.

 

The Ghede

True, I did only tank with my DK in 3.1 and other than that play my Priest.

But your tactics seem to differ from what my guild does. We do run circles after Rasorscale lands, so you're constantly on the move there. And as I said. XT002 was only taken as example, because many people know that figt. If you got hit alot by Light and Gravity Bombs you're running around far more often. Maybe I should have picked another fight, althought I'm not here to not change my opinion. :>

Cheers!

 

poor-boy

so i've been playing around with the 10/61. has anyone tried 15/56?

i don't know anything about icy talons, but with the haste increases, it seems like it may be a viable spec. i'm not geared so hot just yet, i know, but i really like the frost/unholy build. i'm at work now, and on a mac, so i can't load it in any sims, nor spec it and try it...

 

Varlak

Well I did some math and morbidity rk2 over Necrosis rk2 is only a 19.19 DPS lost on the parse you've made SO I do agree that morbidity rk2 > Necrosis rk2.

You did 250 455 dmg with DC so loosing morbidity rk2 mean -10% = 25 045dmg lost

You did 415 678 dmg with melee. 8% of this = 33 254. Assuming Your at 11% spell hit (wich is the bare minimum for your spec for a raider) it does mean that you get 6% resist on necrosis dmg wich lead to a gain in dmg of 31 258dmg if you had Necrosis rk2

So droping morbidity rk2 for Necrosis rk2 would mean + 6 213dmg for you on this fight.

This fight was about 319seconds so 6 213 / 319 = 19.19dps

How do I know the time parsed ? SS did 553 743 dmg and was 24.4% of your total dmg. So
553 743 / 24.4 * 100 = 2 269 438 (your totald mg) You did 7123.9dmg per sec so total dmg / dps = 318.57. (lets say 319sec.)

So it is down to 19.19dps gain for someone with 7.1k dps over the flexibility and the AoE DPS gain of morbidity rk2.

As a blood Elf I can easely spam imp DnD, Horn or winter then I pop Belf racial + Bone armor a few second befour engaging. Doing this I start all boss fight at capped Rune power wich mean that I can open with DC + IT befour I am in melee range wich is a nice DPS boost on short fight.

 

Varlak

problem is that you could get the same hast % from a Frost DK or an enh shm beeing in the same group as you.

IF you still farming 5mans yes going frost for the +20%hast is realy nice (since you wont always have a frost DK or an enh shm in your group). But in a 25man chance are that you have at least 1pure frost DK or 1enh shm so going over Black ice is sueless for an unholy DK.

 

zenos

I've been testing the same spec for the last couple of days, except I maxed morbidity and stole a point from epidemic. I've noticed a modest dps improvement over 12/0/59 which was my previous spec. I haven't tested it against 0/10/61.

Some random thoughts on the spec:

Loosing bladed armor is around a 500 ap loss which really hurts as we scale so well with AP, but as has been pointed out bladed armor is a static bonus and black ice scales better with raid buffs from a personal dps standpoint. What isn't made up is ghoul damage. The loss of AP means your ghoul doesn't hit as hard and your gargoyle is diminished a bit as well. Note that both 7/10/54 and 0/10/61 suffer from this.

This brings up a shortcoming in dummie testing. I'd like to test fully raid buffed ditching the ghoul glyph and replacing it with the UB rune to see if the additional deathcoils can outperform the additional ghoul damage. My instict says no but it should probably be tested.

Loosing the 5% crit and bladed armor along with the 3.1 nerf depreciates the value of necrosis(versus its pre-nerfed value when we were all specced 17/0/54). When you compare the 4% 2 handed damage to necrosis(based on the image radon linked):


41449.8 (4% of 2 handed damage) 2 pts two-handed weapon spec.
versus
79810 (20% of 96% melee damage) 5 pts necrosis.
versus
31924 (8% of 96% melee damage) 2 pts necrosis.

Also note there is a likely non-trivial amount of plague strike damage as well as bloodstrike damage that should be represented in the two handed weapon spec category that I couldn't get from the linked image. So it's safe to state that two-handed weapon spec is more damage per point and on a 2.6 million damage parse the effective difference between 2 points weapon spec versus 5 points necrosis was around 38,000 damage, this without including plague or blood strikes, which would favor 2 handed weapon spec.

So 38000 damage difference roughly, then we have to compare the remainder.

77 ticks of 2 runic power for 154 rp(from butchery) equates to 3.85 deathcoils at an average DC of 5444(per the image)
equates to 20959, leaving a remainder of 17041.

The nebulous components are the 9% crit on bloodstrikes, the extra 20 runic power when getting a killing blow on adds from butchery, and the 25% reduced threat from subversion, compared to the 2 extra points you're able to spend in unholy. Likely in 2 IUP or 1 IUP, 1 Ghoul Frenzy.

 

Jyli

My prospective T8.5/BiS template. Rip it to shreds.

~~~

Helm: [Warhelm of the Champion]
[Chaotic Skyflare Diamond]
[Bold Dragon's Eye]

Neck: [Favor of the Dragon Queen]
[Bold Scarlet Ruby]

Shoulders: [Conqueror's Darkruned Shoulderplates]
[Bold Scarlet Ruby]

Cloak: [Drape of the Drakerider]

Chest: [Conqueror's Darkruned Battleplate]
[Bold Scarlet Ruby]
[Bold Scarlet Ruby]

Bracers: [Bitter Cold Armguards]
[Bold Dragon's Eye]

Hands: [Conqueror's Darkruned Gauntlets]
[Bold Scarlet Ruby]

Belt: [Belt of Colossal Rage]
[Bold Scarlet Ruby]
[Bold Scarlet Ruby]
[Bold Scarlet Ruby]

Legs: [Conqueror's Darkruned Legplates]
[Bold Dragon's Eye]
[Bold Scarlet Ruby]

Boots: [Melancholy Sabatons]

Ring1: [Bladebearer's Signet]

Ring2: [Sif's Promise]

Trinket1: [Darkmoon Card: Greatness]

Trinket2: [Wrathstone]

Weapon: Obvious

~~~

Notes on the Below Values:

-All values completely unbuffed.
-The expertise shown takes into account the 5 you receive from your respective talent tree.
-Hit/Expertise soft caps shown in parenthesis.


Health: 26,177
Strength: 1,789
Attack Power: 4,503
Crit Rating: 834
Hit Rating: 258 (263)
Expertise: 23 (26)
Haste Rating: 122
Armor: 14,281
Weapon Damage: 1,925.53 / 0.00
Attack Speed: 3.28 / 0.00


Total DPS: 2,112.08 (Up from 1600 with previous pre-3.1 BiS/t7.5 template I had prepared - Both comparisons were done without factoring in trinket procs/use abilities.)

The Total DPS can be misleading. Based on comparisons done with WWS averages, mainly because this is the only successful Ulduar attempt I have logged in WWS, using this gear with the 7/10/54 spec you could assume a total DPS on an Unholy DK dps'ing the heart during Deconstructor to be roughly 9300. Assuming the Tier 8.5 bonus adds 20% damage per disease instead of increasing the bonus of each disease from 11% to 20%, you're looking at roughly 10-10.5k dps. This is factoring in the loss of Death Coils with the decreased runic power gain from losing the T7/7.5 4-piece.

 

shed

I think this was mentioned before, but my gargoyle wasn't able to hit the heart on XT boss in Ulduar, has this changed? (this was on Tuesday last week for me). As for Yogg, the gargoyle isn't able to attack the brain when underground, and more than half the time your ghoul will be lost when you go in and out of the portals to reach the brain. People will probably want to dismiss their ghoul when phase 2 is about to start so you can call it instantly the moment you go in the portal and dismiss it the moment you get out of the portal if you didn't lose it.

 

poor-boy

i do still farm a lot of heroics, not so much for me, but to help friends and guildies gear up for naxx still. our guild 10mans we rarely have an enh.shammy, and there is only one frost dk in the guild. i have to pug all my 25 runs, so make-up varies.

i'll spec into it tonight, farm some a heroic, and see if i can't get in a quick OS raid. see what kind of numbers i put up.

 

danagar

WWS finally seems to want to work with a few of the new bosses in Ulduar.

Here's a parse from my guild's XT-deconstructor kill last week. I hit 6923 dps on this normal mode kill with 96% of my dmg being done to XT and his heart. I'm sure there are faster kills that happened last week, but WWS wasn't working correctly with Ulduar parses until a few days ago.

Only difference since then and now was I had a [Aged Winter Cloak] for that fight and I was 12/0/59. I am trying out 0/10/61 right now, and I got a [Drape of Fuming Anger]. I could pull about 3580 dps on a target dummy over 1 million damage dealt (about 4.5 mins) with 12/0/59. I haven't tested 0/10/61 on a dummy yet.

 

shed

You'd probably want [Frigid Strength of Hodir] but I'm not sure about all that stam (hope it gets tuned like the other rings) and all that hit/armor pen.

edit: Forget it, it seems the item did get retuned and got lower stam and higher str but original crit/hit turned into hit/arp. Original stats are here:

http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...t_9722_156.jpg

 

shed

XT is a weird boss to compare DPS to since you do extra damage to the heart.

 

Jyli

Shed, essentially that was one of the biggest decisions I mulled around over. What it boiled down to for me was whether or not the additional Strength(AP) and post-soft cap hit was worth the critical strike. Rawr says it's not and, being inclined to never trust algorithms I didn't write myself, my gut feeling said it wasn't either. While Strength is our strongest atrribute, people should never forget that Scourge Strike has gotten an insane buff in 3.1 and I genuinely feel Crit rating values should be re-evaluated for Unholy DK's. In short fights, you probably won't see many DPS gains at all, but i've noticed that in longer fights my dps will never stop increasing as the damage from top end Scourge Strike crits continues to pull it higher and higher as it becomes synergized with all of our procs.

 

Vinclass

Just doing some quick math, I came up with the same answer as always, no, it's not worth it, and BCB is slightly ahead of Necrosis per point. Using the example you cited, There was 415678 melee damage. 20% of that would have been ~83136 damage. That would be 3.66% of the total damage done (~2271465). That's coming out to .732% per point. BCB's damage came out to .967% per point. Even if black ice affected necrosis (it doesn't) it would still underperform BCB.

I'd be far more likely to agree with your statement that Morbidity < Necrosis, but I feel before going that route, I'd lean towards a 7/10/54 build.

 

Vinclass

Shed, I had the same issue with XT. I'm fairly certain I'm not utterly horrible at busting my gargoyle, and it seemed to only get a couple attacks off during heart phases, which leads me to believe it was just lasting until XT was back online.

Edit: I dove into a couple WWS parses, and noticed that Heart of the Deconstructor seems to rarely have any hits by Ebon Gargoyle against it. Leads me to believe it's a bug, and I'll be headed to the DD forums to report it shortly.

 

shed

Yeah, you're right. When I saw your list I thought the Hodir neck still had hit/crit.

 

Broxx

Due to the heart's massive hitbox, the Gargoyle will melee the heart instead of using its casted ability. The only way to fix this is to move way far out behind where the casters will be which is not worth it. At least this is what I have experienced.

http://sig.gamerdna.com/quizzes/INFL...jerks/Brxx.png

 

shan1212

so, how is unholy dps gonna be compared to blood dks wearing ulduar gears?

so far, most people are still wearing pre-3.1 gears with some ulduar items.

i am not sure if unholyis gonna be able to do the same kind of dps as blood dks later on when so many items in ulduar, including weapons, have massive amounts of armor penetration, and that is pretty useless to unholy

what u guys think? does armor penetration gurantee that in the long run, blood will be top dps ?

 

Lokordd

This may be espicially true since unholys are shackled to their T7 gear, and we will not benifit from increased stats on gear...