Shimerra

I got the same issues with the gargoyle on XT as well, he will melee the heart instead of casting.

 

poor-boy

or not, as there is an ArP cap.

 

Ghraabthar

Pre 3.1 I've raided a fair amount with both diseaseless blood as well as the standard Unholy builds. I've always been partial to Unholy from a personal preference since I like the big SS numbers (especially with 3.1) as well as pretty good survivability from the utility talents as well (Bone shield, IUP etc). However, looking at the calculated stat weightings and what the new 3.1 loot looks like I think ultimately Unholy will fall behind blood as far as being a max dps spec. Over on the blood thread it appears that ArP comes very close to strength in terms of relative contribution to dps. The current unholy calculations place haste, ironically enough, as the 2nd best contribution statistically. Unfortunately for Unholy, there is ArP everywhere, including what people would otherwise consider BiS items, but the spec isn't optimized to take advantage. So unless something changes I think as far as scaling for the current tier of gear, Unholy will start to fall behind blood. The other problem is that Unholy doesn't benefit quite as much from Crit rating, which is probably the 2nd most common secondary DPS stat.

I'm not sure if this will actually be the case once people are decked out in their BiS, but with the calculations that are out there I have a feeling Unholy won't be keeping up. This is especially true if people are going to be holding onto their T7 bonuses.

 

shed

That is one of the problems I'm facing, I'm not sure if I should redo my gear list and go for Blood friendly gear. I think the DK class will likely change again in 3.2 or at least gear will be itemized differently in the future, maybe even in 3.1 because frost runs into the same issues.

However it should be noted that there is a ton of Ulduar gear, you can find stuff in almost every slot that should benefit Unholy just as much.

 

Nefiir

It seems like since we have been doing a lot of revisiting of previously cherished notions (e.g., IUP), we might question a few other things (joy!).

For one, did NeuroMedivh's edited observations regarding the Necrosis vs. Dark Conviction debate (which, I believe put Necrosis ahead by 0.02%; virtually neck-and-neck) use sample data that is reflected in 3.1? Specifically, here I'm wondering whether or not the sample data used for that assessment included the changes to haste that went live in 3.1. Vinclass' rough observations a few posts back (post #320) suggest that Necrosis (and BCB for that matter) may have increased a bit in value, which in turn makes one wonder a bit about the value of Morbidity.

On the other hand, assuming there are levels where clearly Morbidity and Dark Death become preferable, doesn't the value of Dark Conviction increase as compared to Necrosis (and to a lesser extend BCB) too? Or does that question become irrelevant by the Black Ice option, where the sum gain of Necrosis + 1IUP+10 points in Frost is clearly greater than that of ~16 in Blood?

In any event, what I find challenging in following the discussion, is in knowing just what sets of talents offer synergy and under what conditions. Personal choices and nothings to laugh at are well and good, but something a bit more technical would be nice.

On a related note, I can't help but think that Blizzard has scored a small win by giving DKs so many options and variations to reach nearly the same output. Of course, that is probably a bit premature.

 

Sekke

[quote=Jyli;1205841]Gear Choices Here/QUOTE]

It's been said a few times that the 4P T7 bonus is so good for Unholy that it's actually better DPS than getting T8.

Il dolce far niente.

 

Arakki

I can confirm that Gargoyle goes haywire at Yogg'Saron too. When the brain was engageable I popped Garg out and he just started flying around and melee'ing the brain. Also our 2nd DK's Gargoyle behaved the same way and we didn't get anything out of it.

I've created a ticket and waiting for answer etc etc etc but I guess it's related to the same problem as hunter pets and ghouls/hunter pets have on Kologarn and should be fixed on the 3.1.1.

 

radon

Going to post the log for xt2 when we manage to kill it (hopefully next week). For those who asked a log about the rotation i used, don't have xt2 parse yet. But today i did a random not-so-ideal naxx pug and did a combat log so that i can check my numbers on patchwerk without any aoe damage. I can post that one.
WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay in Engrish
Roughly its 6k actual dps over 3:44 min. 7kish dps on xt2 should be about normal.

Edit: Also i'd like to see some ulduar parses with spec & rotation info if it is ok to post them in here, it helps.

 

drake_rocket

My apologies if this question seems completely out of line, but I have read through at least twenty pages of this discussion and have not seen the topic addressed:


Shouldn't the comparison regarding IUP include a mention of what losing a +32 AP enchant really amounts to compared to 2 extra points in necrosis? I might be way off, but it seems as if ignoring IUP, spending the two points in necrosis and picking up a speed enchant to boots might well be the optimal way to go.

Or is it truly that a 32 attack power is worth two talent points?

 

Brok3nh3lix

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...0&version=9767

curious about this build., its a modified 7/10/54 build. it seems to me that it would be worth losing one point in black ice to pick up the monster of a point from ghoul frenzy..

i tried looking through the tread, but i didnt see any math on what the dps increase of ghoul frenzy is. granted this is with out bladed armor, so maby the ghoul dosnt scale as well because of the loss of ~500 ap.

im gona try it out and see how it compares since we got that free respec. i did about 4k on emnalon (or how ever you spell that new Vault boss's name) last night.

sorry if i didnt format this quite right, new to posting.

 

Xtremedy

I have a question on the rotation if we chose to put a point into Ghoul Frenzy for the layout of 0/10/61

Would it be wise to use Ghoul Frenzy right off the bat and miss out on one blood strike? Just wondering if anyone has seen if the Ghouls increase of dps over those 30 seconds is better than one blood strike..

ie. PS-IT-SS-BS-GF (along with the blood tap macro)

 

shed

It seems I cannot summon a ghoul anymore, it uses the cooldown and the cooldown doesnt start ticking because it thinks I have one up. Anyone else seeing this? logging out, changing instances, quitting the game and changing specs isnt fixing it.

 

Mortuary

Confirmed, it is on perma-cooldown, always grayed out. If you zone, the cooldown starts at 30 seconds. When I saw this I was like "score, I fixed it!", however once it became available it still does nothing and goes back to perma-cooldown. Looks like it's blood for Ulduar tonight >.<

 

everwatch

Perma Ghoul Bug Fix

Replace your glyph that removes the corpse dust component. Respec at the trainer to 0 points spent. Summon a non-perma ghoul and then destroy him. Spend your talent points now and wait for the CD. Then resummon the pet and you should be fine. I repeat, get rid of the glyph that removes the corpse dust component cost. Get it off of your toon before anything else.

I also logged out of the game and swapped to my dual talent spec in this process. I don't think that should be required, but if this doesn't fix the problem then do it again with swapping specs and logging in and out.

http://www.skeletonjack.com/

 

Bullshifter

I logged out, and logged back in about an hour later and the ghoul is working for me now, as of 10:45p EST. Hope it stays that way for Ulduar tomorrow.

 

joypunk

Simply dieing was enough to fix the Ghoul summoning bug for me. It worked fine the rest of the night.

 

kaisuki

Hi, I've read a few pages back on Unholy Blight versus Death Coil; whether Unholy Blight is still worth it over an extra Death Coil on single target dps. What's the general concensus on that? Does the Glyph of Dark Death push Death Coil to become a more viable runic dump than the Unholy Blight?

 

Arakki

Read the first post.

 

Challenge

I'm curious have any data points been obtained using the follow rotation:

PS-IT-BS-SS-Pest

SS-SS-SS


Weave in pest based refreshes whenever you need to depending on glyph of SS procs and use blood strike to dump single blood runes or when durations are >10 sec. This way you have optimal uptime on diseases, can convert all FU runes into scourge strikes and still get the death runes from the reaping change.

Using SS/Ghoul/Pest glyphs. Alternately, you can use Ghoul/Pest/DD glyphs and force a refresh every rotation as follows:

PS-IT-BS-SS-Pest [start]

SS-SS-Pest-BS

SS-SS-SS

Pest-BS-SS-SS

SS-SS-Pest-BS

The last four lines of that would repeat indefinitely. You could also weave in ghoul frenzy and bone shield refreshes as normal. This would allow you to control diseases without the RNG that is glyph of SS or alternately to push for ever higher DPS by compensating for its randomness by blowing a BS worth of damage for a disease refresh.

Any thoughts?

 

Drenhar

Or simply change continents. That works too. Much easier to teleport to ebon hold then hearth back to dalaran than go through all that mess.

 

Cabal

I made some very rough and unelegant testing by counting the STR only difference between 4 T7 (with bonus) and 4 T8 (also with its bonus), which is 114 STR (warning: not counting other stats! Im lazy) and used Kahories Sim to compare them. The results were as follows:

Over 100 hours, 170ms lag.
Using 4xT7:

10-61 specc = 5600 dps
12-59 = 5552

Using 4x T8:

10-61 = 5597
12-59= 5544

So as you can see, the difference is minimal, and if you input the other stat gains from T8 instead of just STR, T8 isnt the dog everyone seems to believe it to be. The problem is it will only be (possibly) better when you do get 4 pieces of it. And that makes it the last gear im planning to go for, after my remaining slots are upgraded and tier starts to rot ^^

 

Foxx2405

Why would you ?

I mean, why not just use ghoul frenzy without blood tap at the start of a fight ?
I always (granted the fight begins right away, so I don't do it on say Yogg), just pop ghoul frenzy as I'm running in.

If you do the rotation like this: PS>IT>BS>BS>SS
By the time you get to the SS your unholy rune should, if you timed it right, be back up again.

And this is a pure dps increase by the way, since you don't lose anything from that early unholy rune.


We've been over this a few times already.

Did you think about the dps increase. With using Pestilence you lose a BS worth of damage every 20 seconds.
With the SS glyph you trade a SS for a PS+IT every, lets say 30 seconds.

If
(SS - PS - IT) / 30
is smaller than
BS / 20

than purely rune damage wise, the SS glyph is better. I don't have numbers at hand, but I think the BS is a bigger damage loss.

That would already put some strain on the pestilence glyph.
It's quite hard to figure out which is better though. Because if you look at RP generated with the 4xT7, the glyph of pestilence (since it never discards a SS) might come out ahead.

A lot of people prefer the SS glyph for the fact it spices up the rotation a bit though. It provides a sort of dynamic rotation, which keeps it more fun.

 

gsman20

In addition to the other responses: /script PetDismiss() worked for me both times I had this happen.

 

Valtiel

I wouldn't be so happy of these results. Essentially you're telling us we're not gonna scale in Ulduar, while everyone else is. Which is fine only when you assume we were doing endgame Ulduar dps in t7.

 

norg

Well yeah, obviously if Unholy & Frost are sticking with their tier 7 then they will potentially run into issues towards the end of the zone. You'd certainly expect Unholy to be overtaken by Blood once Blood has upgraded to 4pc Tier 8, for instance.

Just shows what a pain set bonuses can be for all concerned, really.