Lujaar

Miracleknight, both of the cookie cutter specs you posted take Morbidity over Necrosis. For single target DPS, Necrosis should be the better talent. Do you know something I don't, or is this just personal preference because of the DnD cooldown?

 

Miracleknight

All I know is Necrosis is a .7% DPS increase per point, those specs I grabbed are from other posters as I don't have any knowledge about the subject. I'm sure the math is somewhere, and in my slow trek throughout the old posts of the other Unholy thread I'll update them, but I haven't found the math in reference to morbidity's worth. I know Method posted a value somewhere, and it may simply be the utility AOE wise of being able to cast DnD more often outweighs a marginal single target DPS increase.

 

Mindaika

Morbidity is taken for the 15% DC damage increase, not the DnD CD reduction. As to which is better, it's easy to calculate from your WWS: Is 15% of your total DC damage higher than 12% (3 pts Necrosis) of your auto-attack damage? However, to properly calculate that, you'd need a build with neither to look at, which you may not have.

Tastes like Awesome, because it's made of Awesome(TM)

 

Blowncoat

Has anyone done the math on the damage increase from the rune regen increase from Imp Unholy Presence?

9 second runes sound pretty nice. But I also see how losing 15% damage could be more. Anything on the subject would be helpful.

 

Mendoza

I don't think it's been explicitly mentioned anywhere, but with the new glyph of dark death does DC not now entirely replace UB for single target dps?

As per the first post UB gets a 1.3% AP multiplier, which over the 20 second duration works out at 28%.

Death coil gets 15%, which multiplied by 1.15 from the glyph gives 1.15 x 1.15 = 1.3225 or 32.25% multiplier. And that's assuming morbidity is already factored in to the figures on the front page, otherwise it comes out at around a 52% multiplier so scales much better than UB.

Unless I'm totally missing how the AP scaling actually works.

 

Sythral

I am pretty sure methods did some testing that concluded that blood presence is still the DPS presence for unholy 2h builds. We are not starved for runes with the current rotation, therefore there is no need to use unholy presence to DPS.

 

Merka

"Tier 7 is better for Unholy than Tier 8 according to information at the moment."

4 piece Tier 8 has roughly 90-100 str (+ other stats) more than 4 piece tier 7. Is there any math that shows that the t7 bonus makes up for the pretty large stat increase in tier 8 ?

On another note, assuming that 4 piece tier 8 is better than 4 piece tier 7 for blood/frost, how will unholy be able to compete with blood/frost while it has a 100 str defecit just from 4 piece tier 7 instead of tier 8. Has anyone else thought about this? That is roughly 300 more AP for blood/frost (assuming 1 str is about 2.9 AP )

Don't see how unholy could hang while having this huge stat loss

 

Bungie

It's been posted in a few places, use the search option. As well from what I know, t8 is only potentially better for blood than t7, definitely not frost, and from what the spread sheets have shown, unholy with t7 is the top DK spec for dps in 3.1 at the moment.

 

Sekke

As far as I know, this was all brought up before when the issue first arised. The superiority of T7, from what I can remember, arises from the fact that the set bonus allows for more DCs per minute (I forget the exact amount, I'm sure someone else will give a better answer).

EDIT: And I believe that T8 is better for just Blood. I even asked in the old Unholy thread if 4P T8 + Blood spec would be better than 4P T7 + Unholy spec and the answer was still yes. Methods is developing a spreadsheet (that we all are eagerly awaiting) that should support this, and I've seen other simulators that support the same conclusion.

Il dolce far niente.

 

frigginwizard

I have a hard time with the idea that run speed > more damage, but I guess Ill give ulduar a couple nights before I decide which is better.

 

sneakysob

I thought Ghoul Frenzy ends up actually being a dps loss? I am fairly certain I have seen multiple people say this.

 

Xtee

The old thread is still up, just locked. In between pages 82 and the end. You will find all the answers you seek.

http://elitistjerks.com/f72/t37087-unholy_dps_discussion/

 

Tenemit

Methods explains the "transition rules from T7 to T8" in this post.

Anyway, Sekke is right, 4 piece tier 7 set bonus allows for more DCs + Unholy Blight per minute, more Runic power you generate, more DCs and UBs you can cast (remember that both are in the top 6 in your recount)

 

Sanika

Alright I'm VERY confused. Can a few people please recommend what spec I should use to use with my gear? I keep hearing 12/0/59 is best with current BiS gear but I see posts that say 0/10/61 is good too! Which one is it? I prefer 12/0/59 partially because it's the closest to 17/0/54 which was an amazing build but I'm all for min/maxing.

 

sneakysob

12/0/59 is generally considered as the best Unholy spec for beginning Ulduar.

 

Xtee

In previous discussions they have said, that a lot of it will come down to play style (hopefully), but also, For Starting out in pretty much BiS Nax Gear 12/0/59 was said to work better. Where ultimately 0/10/61 scales best with Ulduar BiS gear.

 

Merka

After reading methods post, he says that 4 piece T8 > 4 piece T7 for unholy.. so now I am more confused. conflicting responses

 

Bloodmourne

Don't expect this post to be around much longer, as asking a question "I have this gear, what spec should I be" usually gets it deleted.

From sims I have done I am more then impressed with 0/10/61, but that is for me and to each his/her own really. If you liked the 17/0/54 build and rotation, and gear is not quite up to speed for ulduar, I would recommend the 12/0/59.

For future reference I would check out previous posts and download Kahorie's DK Simulator. My new favorite tool!


EDIT: BTW Xyrm, made me sad to see you are playing a pally now One less great DK

 

Sanika

Well I'm in 5/5 T7.5 so it's kind of a catch-22 here.

 

Bloodmourne

Was asked about trinkets, and with the new stat increases and what not to ArP and if Grim Toll would be better now for Unholy, so I did some very quick math based off the new chart on page 1. (an please correct me if i am wrong at all with this)

Redone the math a bit, pretty sure its right

But I came up with this (based of UNHOLY BiS and Procs):

163.4021
574.056
---
421.7273 if not hit capped, if capped it is far less value


[Darkmoon Card: Greatness]
266.76
889.2
---
560.196

[Mirror of Truth]
1000
112.644
---
445.644 Thanks to Dreamwalker redoing the numbers

[Fury of the Five Flights]
---
320

[Bandit's Insignia] (Excluding the Proc, did not do the math for that wasn't sure how)
---
440 Based off pre 3.1 numbers

Looks to me it is still Mirror and Darkmoon Card. (of course that is without the proc of Bandit's insignia which I am unfamiliar with). Have read that Bandit's Insignia has been 2% of DK's dps, which would make it much more valuable (3.1 did that change though). But from simple in-a-hurry math, Grim Toll is still not as great as Mirror... possibly Bandit's, and definately not close to Darkmoon Card (which is looking like our best in slot for a while)

 

Miracleknight

Remember that you're comparing apples and oranges here, it's not 300 more AP for Blood/frost since they do not use the ghoul the same way we do, the only reason ours is so high is because it's worth 2 AP + AP for our ghoul whereas there's will generally just be 2 AP, so while it's a difference it's a little less than what you're worrying about.

Well it's viable, but not worth it as IUP is still point per point more DPS than any of the alternatives, while you could put half of it's effect in the form of an enchant you'd also be giving up superior enchants that would provide you something you couldn't get from a simple two points.

I have the math up there under the math section explaining both why Imp Unholy Aura > Necrosis and Necrosis > Dark conviction.

yeah it would be better than it was before, but still down there. I honestly cannot fathom anyone coming up with a way ArP would be worth much if anything for unholy.

 

Niightblade

Wouldn't it be better to "wiki-fi" the first post so that more than one person can help update it?

 

Lujaar

Bloodmourne, your trinket comparisons assume 100% proc uptime. Suffice to say that makes them way, way off. (EDIT: That's been fixed now.)

But you're right, just going by AEP, Grim Toll isn't great.

 

Qrio

Bandit's Insignia is quite a nice trinket. It was valued in the old post to be very close to being 2nd or 3rd best trinket for Unholy including its proc.
For me it's roughly 2-2.3% of my DPS just from the proc alone. It often crits as well (and when it crits I see 4k+ numbers). I really enjoy that trinket, and very much prefer it to Mirror of Truth.

 

Bloodmourne

yeah, like i said it was quick math to show grim toll is not that great still.