I don't see this one quite as effective, there was a 7/10/54 named before and if you look through the thread you will find the numbers that show that Dirge is a talent which is highly recommended, as it gives you more RP which you can put into more DC's. You also drop 1 point in Desecration, which is not a good way, since Desecration gives you more DPS/Talent Point than Morbidity and Necrosis.

Edit: Here is a link back to the posts where a 7/10/54 was discussed. Hope this helps

Saw this in the PTR patch notes:
I know many people don't even take it in their talent builds, but this change just confuses me. It seems odd to add a CD to something that doesn't really gain much from being spammed, and can't effectively be spammed due to the rune usage. Unless this is a precursor to a change in cost (similar to horn of winter?) I can't see a point to this change, and I don't think it really affects our use of it. Thoughts?

I presume it's to stop healspam in Arena.

Why would you spam it tho? It is an ongoing heal for 30 secs. So if I don't miss anything it takes 30 seconds for your ghoul to get healed the 60%. So why would you waste 1 unholy rune every 10 seconds or less for this?
I can only imagine I'm missing here something, otherwise it wouldn't make much sense to me.

And yes, it won't have much of a change for us, unless they add something else to it.

Or maybe just to help you not reapply it if your not sure you hit it right the first time.

Not only are your percentages way off. (20% DC ???... more like 10%)

x% crit doesnt equal x% dps increase, this has been stated numerous times already throughout this topic.

It's not that simple.

Blizzard does not want us to feel we're supposed to spend a minute before a fight stacking up our RP with abilities like that, and I agree I don't want to have to do that. So anytime an ability provides unlimited RP for the start of the fight I would expect it to be changed.

Didn't get to do any testing last night as I couldn't find a dot addon that tells me when it's about to tick and I only had like 30 minutes to do so before my raid hah. But now I've got a weekend and I'll report back.

Also Even though T8 is still an upgrade for us now; I think I'd let the rogues and blood DK (Though honestly the blood DK is kind of stupid and I don't expect him to be around for long so maybe not) and... whoever else uses our token to get those pieces first, and focus on the off pieces and weapons (Dear lord do I need a new weapon)

Thanks very much for the math behind how I can play better. That's exactly the reason I read EJ, along with everybody else I'd imagine. I'll drop the hybrid idea and grab the Black Ice.

Back to the Drawing Board?

I think with the passing of T7 it may be time to relook at the IT and UB Glyphs to replace SS. Theoretically, SS isn't actually a very large dps increase but I'm not too confident that there isn't a piece of the puzzle that may be modeled incorrectly or something. With the RP lost from T7 4P we will need to make up that possible gap.

RP Gains
UB provides a flat 40 RP per 60 seconds (0.666 RP per second) in semi-static fights.
IT Glyph offers 10 RP per 20 seconds (0.5 RP per second) and some damage lost/gained depending on disease tick clipping. More RP gained in movement heavy fights/target switching.
SS Glyph still offers the same amount of flexibility and per-strike DPS but now is actually a RP loss per rotation of about 5-15RP.

On average without T7 4p you will get about 97.6 RP per rotation from IT/PS and SS (0.48 * IT/PSrp 4.28*SSrp)
Without the SS Glpyh a standard rotation would be 4(3.82 realistically) SS and 1(0.95) IT/PS so 105(100.15) RP.
Add either UB Glyph or IT Glyph instead of SS and you get:
UB 13.33rp per rotation (Total 113.48 RP)
or
IT 10(9.5) Rp per rotation (Total 109.5 RP)

Raw damage lost switching to IT or UB instead of SS
Assumptions: Realistic numbers
12/0/59
SS should be averaging at least 7.9k in BiS Unholy Gear
PS should average around 3230
IT should average approx. 2345 (Total difference: 2325)

So with the SS Glyph the sum of FU rune uses per rotation should be approx:
SS Glyph = 4.28*7900 + 0.48*(3230+2345)
SS Glyph = 36488

No SS Glyph = 3.82*7900 + 0.95*3230 +0.95*2345
No SS Glyph = 35474.25

Difference of 1013.75 in favor of the SS Glyph before other considerations.

Throw in the difference we'll see in RP gains realistically and convert it to DCs:
DC Average 5k (125 dmg per RP)

Total difference between the two should be: ExtraRP * DC RPdmg -ExtraSSdamage
So for UB: 13.33*125 -1013.75 or 652.5 dmg/32.625 dps
For IT: 9.5*125 -1013.75 or 173.75 dmg/8.68 dps

Yay! More preference/balanced glyph choices. With these you get the added bonus of not clipping your disease ticks but lose the convenience of SS spam. I'd say that in the world of theorycraft this is way too close to call a clear winner between all three of them. There goes my time....

I was looking at Dunsparrow's post about alt spec 10/10/51 on page 16, and I have a couple of questions about that.

1) With 3/5 in Toughness, would 5/5 Bladed Armor produce more dps than 5/5 Black Ice? (Currently the spec is 3/5 BA and 5/5 BI).

2) With Morbidity having such a low dps %, wouldn't it be better to drop those 3 points from Morbidity and put them in Necrosis? So Morbidity would be 0/3 and Necrosis would be 3/5.

3) With the points in Butchery and Runic Power Mastery and Dirge, I'm finding that I'm capped out on Runic Power most of the time even trying to use it up. So would it be better to stay just under capped in RP? So basically, would it give you more dps if you move the 2 pts from Dirge and put them into Necrosis? That woud be 0/2 Dirge and 5/5 Necrosis.

I suck at theory crafting, so that's why I'm asking these questions. I tried looking them up and using the info to figure it out math wise but I can't seem to do that. So does any of these changes make sense?

Thanks

Toughness is completely and utterly negligible for that and I can't believe people even consider it.

We've been talking about morbidity the last few pages, I'd recommend reading those, but basically it comes down to preference and use of DND.

No, Dirge is one of our highest points of DPS talents. You need to become better at spending your runic power.

Less, Black Ice is pretty huge, but the advantage to the blood tree is that you also get Two Handed Weapons which is a nice talent. Essentially you're ONLY getting a dps increase from Black Ice, whereas in the blood tree you have subversion with it's small runic generation, Bladed armor and Two Handed Weapons. But the Frost/Unholy spec is suspected to scale much better than the blood tree, and honestly they seem pretty even already but that may just be my personal opinion weaseling it's way in.

Neither sub tree will effect your play style though other than the threat reduction.

I had a question concerning about when we should consider dropping the t7 set bonus. Should we still wait for a 4pc t8 bonus or would the new buffed 2pc be worthy enough to break the bonus? I'm not thinking the latter would be that big of a gain for unholy. Also I've been playing around with Ghoul Frenzy and even just using it whenever Blood Tap is up I'm not seeing any real dps gain. It seems to more muck up the rotation. Maybe I'm doing something wrong but I'm just not seeing the greatness of it.

Wait for the t8 4 pc bonus, the patch isnt out just yet

Howdy there. I'm having difficulties deciding what to equip (since I run mostly 10 mans, and the BiS lists I've found around here all count on 25 man gear), so I was wondering if you guys could point me to a reliable (as they can be) spreadsheet?

Is yours available somewhere to download Methods?

Thank you in advance guys.

Agreed. It just felt odd using tier 7.5 just for the 4 piece bonus. However, I wished they would have made tier 8's bonus's better to compensate. The extra 3% crit added to DC is negligible. Which brings me back to the necrosis/morbidity discussion. One thing I forgot to consider is that DC requires more hit than the shadow damage necrosis brings off auto attacks. It might be small but a missed DC is an obvious dps loss over the long term. I know I'm 3% below the spell hit cap with full raid buffs...

I think I'm going to try out a 5/5 necrosis and 1/3 morbidity and compare the numbers from my last wws. With all gear being equal, I think it's the only way to see the difference.

I also like the 2 extra pts 0/10/61 gives you. I'm guessing Black Ice also affects Necrosis which is nice too. It's been said before but worth repeating: threat reduction shouldn't be needed if you have good tanks.

Also thx for the corrections Foxx and Lapin.

Necrosis is not affected by Black Ice or Ebon Plaguebringer. It is a straight % of your white damage. This is working as intended according to the blue posts during the 3.1 PTR.

i seem to be missing out on how this frost/unholy scales better then blood/unholy? it seems the absence of 4 percent dmg on the 2h would hurt white swings as well, so ur it and scourge strike hit harder your melee normally is ur number 2 dps ability

Well Blood/Unholy only really scales with respect to 2h Spec: bladed armor is a static boost for the most part once you get into the ilvl 200 or greater items since armor value doesn't increase much.

So you are looking at 4% multiplier on melee damage, SS and PS vs. 10% multiplier on everything shadow or frost, which is pretty much everything but BCB and PS/melee swing.

I have a question though, has anyone else been toying with a 10/10/51 build? My gear wasn't quite good enough for 10/61 so I decided to pickup bladed armor while keeping black ice. The points came out of BCB, IUP, morbidity and wandering plague with the intent of boosting single target damage, which I managed. I do really miss IUP though, and would have rathered 3/3 BCB with IUP but unfortunately that wasn't possible.

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

k so u lose 6 percent to the other things but u also miss out on dark conviction which adds crit to all of our abilities as well, i guess im just kinda holding on to my high crit chance.. mistake?

Inspired by method's theorycraft suggesting that Glyph of UB would be stronger than Glyph of SS (moderately) once we're all geared in our T8, I decided to run the same test in my current 10 man + 4pT7 gear using Kahorie’s DK Sim. The numbers in my subpar gear (and no double dipping Ghoul, if anyone cares) came out like this:

UB Glyph - DPS 5361
SS Glyph - DPS 5309

Out of curiosity I did a run with two glyphs, dropping SS and leaving only Dark Death and Ghoul.

Neither Glyph - DPS 5297

These were all 100 hours tests. I know this isn't a really conclusive time frame, but then again I'm not running a conclusive gear setup for most of the people on this board. I'm more just looking to bring up an idea and leave the hard conclusions to other people.

So I guess the question this prompts is "Is Glyph of Scourge Strike overrated (due to disease clipping and the new buffed PS) to the point that it's hardly a DPS increase compared to Unholy Blight even with current T7 gear setups?"

And to the poster above me: Still get Dirge, it's one of the best DPS talents for the exact same reason that T7 is such an amazing set bonus. If you're doing things right (maximize ever GCD, and when things go wrong resort to a priority over a hard rotation) you shouldn't be capping out on RP.