Unholy Gains Shadow of Death (Unholy DPS Discussion now with more 3.2!) - Page 33

Ashur25 · 04/30/09, 2:33 PM

Some news regarding BiS gear, specifically 4pcT7, wowraid has the 3.1.2 patch notes

Scourgeborne 4-Piece Set Bonus: The runic power gain has been reduced to 5 runic power from 10 runic power.

source: Wowraid - 3.1.2 Patch Notes and PTR

Time to roll on tokens i guess

Griefpb · 04/30/09, 2:47 PM

Originally Posted by Ashur25

Some news regarding BiS gear, specifically 4pcT7, wowraid has the 3.1.2 patch notes

source: Wowraid - 3.1.2 Patch Notes and PTR

Time to roll on tokens i guess

That's huge news, Guess we do have to switch to T8. Someone will probably go through the math but as I remember It was pretty close already, cutting our 4pc T7 bonus in half should push t8 ahead.

Miracleknight · 04/30/09, 2:58 PM

Originally Posted by Cankuna

Well since you asked for the WWS here it is. But like I said it is just for me and my gear and playstyle. If you find any flaws in my assumption or playstyle I'll be happy to hear them. At that time I used the 12/0/59 and had 2 points in Necrosis if I remember correctly.
Now it gets kind of interesting tho. I added all my points from Morbidity into Necrosis and took GF out to max Necrosis and end up with this here. I'm aware that it is a different Bossfight, but Nonetheless the ratio from BCB to Necrosis didn't get that much bigger as I would have expected.

For the discussion of Morbidity versus Necrosis, I would say that maybe dual spec would be good, since some situations would call for the reduced CD of DnD. But then again, it is all up to personal preference and to the guilds needs. If you get assigned Add duty, in the fight with Thorim the Arena duty or you are just single target DPS all the time, makes a big difference in thinking about these things.

Thanks this is what I wanted because I wanted to see what it looked like, dividing your melee damage by your necrosis damage yields 8.6% so that would imply 2 (Maybe 3?( talent points (where the .6% comes from I don't know) however due to adds and other parts of the fight I wonder how many mobs there are you hitting without diseases on them, which is obviously a big factor in BCB. Both fights entail some AOE which is going to give you some white swings that will show a decreased benefit without diseases. And even then BCB is still point for point approaching 1% dps for you, so I definitely would still keep it over morbidity. And as you said BCB will scale more with your weapon damage (though so will Necrosis), but that's interesting to look at, if someone can rationalize it better that'd be helpful.

Also.. looking it again, your Necrosis has more hits than your melee swings? How is that possible?

Cankuna · 04/30/09, 2:59 PM

Originally Posted by Griefpb

That's huge news, Guess we do have to switch to T8. Someone will probably go through the math but as I remember It was pretty close already, cutting our 4pc T7 bonus in half should push t8 ahead.

I couldn't find the numbers, but I found the scaling that was used here .
I would think that the same scaling might still apply, but I leave that up to someone else to comment, as I haven't done any math on it. Maybe methods still has his math somewhere and can tell us what this change really brings with it.

kron · 04/30/09, 3:05 PM

We should also keep in mind that the 2 piece bonus of Tier 8 has been slightly buffed from 5% crit to 8%. It looks like Tier 8 will perform better based on intuition once these are implemented. However, it's rather unfortunate that we are not really looking at a dps increase when compared with the current Tier 7.

Cankuna · 04/30/09, 3:17 PM

Originally Posted by Miracleknight

Thanks this is what I wanted because I wanted to see what it looked like, dividing your melee damage by your necrosis damage yields 8.6% so that would imply 2 (Maybe 3?( talent points (where the .6% comes from I don't know) however due to adds and other parts of the fight I wonder how many mobs there are you hitting without diseases on them, which is obviously a big factor in BCB. Both fights entail some AOE which is going to give you some white swings that will show a decreased benefit without diseases. And even then BCB is still point for point approaching 1% dps for you, so I definitely would still keep it over morbidity. And as you said BCB will scale more with your weapon damage (though so will Necrosis), but that's interesting to look at, if someone can rationalize it better that'd be helpful.

Also.. looking it again, your Necrosis has more hits than your melee swings? How is that possible?

Indeed this is quite fascinating. In the first WWS its 510 Melee swings and 749 Necrosis hits. The other one it is 295 Melee swings and 113 Necrosis. So this is the reason why Necrosis doesn't scale as high in the second WWS anymore, even so I added the additional 2-3 points.
If someone would have an answer to that I would really appreciate it.
Only thing I can see is that WWS shows 1.7% Missed Melee swings and no missed, but mitigated Necrosis. Maybe this has something to do with it?

Syrvantez · 04/30/09, 3:43 PM

Major update if it's truly legit, that will significantly affect us all if it's legit.

World of Warcraft Forums

Proposed change nerfs our 7.5 4 pc bonus to be only 5 RP instead of 10 RP gain. Looks like they're trying to promote us all to switch to blood with the itemization and set bonus change.

EDIT: EU Patch Notes Looks like it's legit.

Schadenfrued · 04/30/09, 4:40 PM

I wonder if this will be a reason to switch to a trispec? It takes the 4pc bonus to actually make my rotation full/fluid enough that I'm not waiting for rune cooldown. Will we need to add some of the RP generation from blood (admittedly not as good)now to keep our rotation full?

May see a 7/10/54 build pull ahead of 10/61 now.

Leaflock · 04/30/09, 4:45 PM

Originally Posted by Syrvantez

Proposed change nerfs our 7.5 4 pc bonus to be only 5 RP instead of 10 RP gain. Looks like they're trying to promote us all to switch to blood with the itemization and set bonus change.

Yes, because the body of evidence in DK design suggests that Blizzard wants everyone to play the same spec.

Seriously, I fail to see how an obviously incoming nerf that makes the next tier of gear an actual upgrade is trying to make people switch specs. Oh, but in your haste to be first to break the news in every thread, you forgot to copy/paste this post to the frost dps thread also, so you might want to remedy that.

Syrvantez · 04/30/09, 5:08 PM

No need for the sarcasm, nor insults Leaflock. I have posted here, but to summarize, I am not trying to say "zomg everyone respec now," it's a simple fact that 7.5 4 set was amazing for unholy, now that this is changing, the item budget on non-tiered plate dps pieces (belt, bracers, etc.) promotes ArP. See here. The stat allocations for this proposed BiS gear list show a loss in haste for blood, but a stat increase to each of the other stats.

I was unaware that the statement was laughable, it is simply a changed that was linked.

methods · 04/30/09, 5:10 PM

I just posted my predictions in the BiS thread.

Total change from T7 to T8 for Unholy is about 1% or a little more depending on how you shift around your gear to compensate the extra expertise. I'll do some more research tomorrow to get some more solid numbers.

We had it coming.

Leaflock · 04/30/09, 5:31 PM

Originally Posted by Syrvantez

No need for the sarcasm, nor insults Leaflock. I have posted here, but to summarize, I am not trying to say "zomg everyone respec now," it's a simple fact that 7.5 4 set was amazing for unholy, now that this is changing, the item budget on non-tiered plate dps pieces (belt, bracers, etc.) promotes ArP. See here. The stat allocations for this proposed BiS gear list show a loss in haste for blood, but a stat increase to each of the other stats.

I was unaware that the statement was laughable, it is simply a changed that was linked.

There are no insults there, only a healthy dose of sarcasm.

We're all aware of how good the T7 set bonus was compared to the T8 upgrade, and that's why it's nerfed. I'm simply raising a contention with the implication that Unholy needed the t7 bonus to be a competitive spec, because now that it's reduced, "they're trying to promote us to all switch to blood". That's wow-forums caliber sky-is-falling stuff. Unholy is still good.

Metaknight · 04/30/09, 5:59 PM

If they're going to force T8 down our throats, the least they could do it properly itemize it.

Anyways, just how much of a DPS loss is this with 4pc T7? I have the Token for the legs but am now wondering if I should use it for my growing tank set instead.

Foxx2405 · 04/30/09, 6:07 PM

I for one am glad they changed it. The tier 7 4-set bonus was way overpowered anyway, and now we can actually upgrade our tier.

Metaknight · 04/30/09, 6:21 PM

Originally Posted by Foxx2405

I for one am glad they changed it. The tier 7 4-set bonus was way overpowered anyway, and now we can actually upgrade our tier.

But that still doesn't clear the fact that Tier-8, all in all, is pretty badly itemized, the biggest offender being the helm.

If you were Blood, you probably didn't feel anything as BiS was still T8, but what I'm really worried about is how this hurts Frost.