This flask won't replace Endless Rage. It will have quite same value as x2 ring enchants for alchemy or 2 gem slots for BS. Point is to give alchemy extra stat benefit while PvP/solo (like other professions do) not only when you raid (use flask) like now on live.
Depends - the str potion could be a flat value that would equal the same AP given as endless rage before modifiers. Further, our pet would benefit from the Str flask as well.
New flask will be most likely 40 STR which is nowhere close Endless Rage with 260 AP (180 + 80 from mixology in 3.2). New JC gems will be bumped to 33 STR, inscription/leatherworking to +80 AP, enchanting rings to x2 40 AP.
That is of course if new gems will be 20 STR/40 AP like currently from fishing.
Originally posted by Invisus
Average of 3,482 DC sans SotVH with max points in Morbidity.
You're probably right, so that will end up as 42*4 = 168% of a DC every 30 seconds. From my same parse UB up for 5'05" at 97% uptime it has done 87,683 damage compared to DC's 98,387.
Assuming an avg 3,482 dmg for DC.... and 4.5 x DC per 20s rotation.... and 42% UB w/ glyph...
UB new:
.42 x 3,482 x 4.5 = 6581 every 20 s
UB old:
87,683 / (5'05" = 305 s) = 287.5 dps x 20 s = 5750 every 20 s
And yea, that's w/ no sigil and low DC crit.
Am i right? ( quik math )
EDIT:
Re-calculating... 4.5 DC's... trying to figure out where I got that from...
EDIT 2:
The 4.5 was from a 30 sec window based on Mendoza's post. So it's actually 3.25 DC's per 20s... update below...
UB new:
.42 x 3,482 x 3.25 = 4752 every 20 s
UB old:
87,683 / (5'05" = 305 s) = 287.5 dps x 20 s = 5750 every 20 s
However...after some further calculation and reading up on Ignite / Deep Wounds... won't UB cause more damage because of stacking bonuses?
Assuming a UB tick every 2 sec.... if you crit a DC for 6k and get a 40% UB stack - 2400 over 10 sec, 480 tick/2 sec - and 6 sec go by (1440 dmg done), then crit again for 6k, you'll then reset the timer, and have a 960 tick/2 sec for 10 sec, right?
so instead of 4800 damage total from 40% of 12k, you'd get 480*3+960*5 = 1440+4800 = 6240
Isn't that how it works? Or does the first stack expire after 10 sec?
If it DOES work like that...
UB new: (IT-PS-SS [DC] BS-BS | SS [DC] SS-SS [DC])
@4.5 sec: .42 x 3,482 = 1462 = 292/tick/2 sec
@13 sec: 292 + .42 x 3,482 = 584/tick/2 sec
@16 sec: 584 + .42 x 3,482 = 876/tick/2 sec
292*4+584*2+876*3 = 4964 ish over 20 sec
UB old:
87,683 / (5'05" = 305 s) = 287.5 dps x 20 s = 5750 every 20 s
So for the first 20 sec, new UB will be lower... but as it continues to stack... the numbers go way up. Just have to make sure it stacks : /
At least I think that's how Ignite works... if each UB stack runs out after its own individual 10 sec... then shux.
I think your numbers for Death Coil are a bit low, but remember that there's fights like Freya where Unholy Blight is a top damage contributor because of the AOE nature of the fight. While the new Unholy Blight might be a gain on a single target boss it would be a loss on any fight with more than one target.
Not to validate your equations, but let me plug in the numbers from the log I posted so that we can get a more realistic analysis.
If your equations are correct then we're looking at a pretty nice DPS gain from Unholy Blight on most boss encounters, and some especially nice gains on Hodir.
I think your numbers for Death Coil are a bit low, but remember that there's fights like Freya where Unholy Blight is a top damage contributor because of the AOE nature of the fight. While the new Unholy Blight might be a gain on a single target boss it would be a loss on any fight with more than one target.
Not to validate your equations, but let me plug in the numbers from the log I posted so that we can get a more realistic analysis.
If your equations are correct then we're looking at a pretty nice DPS gain from Unholy Blight on most boss encounters, and some especially nice gains on Hodir.
based on your numbers, and my updated calcs...
@4.5 sec: .42 x 5353 = 2248 = 450/tick/2 sec
@13 sec: 450 + .42 x 5353 = 900/tick/2 sec
@16 sec: 900 + .42 x 5353 = 1350/tick/2 sec
450*4+900*2+1350*3 = 7650 ish over 20 sec
UB old:
320 x 20 s = 6400 over 20 s
This has to be with the sigil tho... no way are your DC's hitting that hard on average w/out it?
If we put in the avg DC from your Ignis fight, and the other unholy DK in your guild...
@4.5 sec: .42 x 4260 = 1790 = 358/tick/2 sec
@13 sec: 358 + .42 x 4260 = 716/tick/2 sec
@16 sec: 716 + .42 x 4260 = 1074/tick/2 sec
358*4+716*2+1074*3 = 6086 ish over 20 sec
For some reason he didn't seem to use Unholy Blight... or at least it didnt show up on the log, but I bet it's lower than 320 dps single target.
I only have Sigil of Awareness. We haven't been fortunate enough to see the XT Sigil, and as a tank I'd have to wait for the third one anyways. Those numbers are without the sigil.
Assuming a UB tick every 2 sec.... if you crit a DC for 6k and get a 40% UB stack - 2400 over 10 sec, 480 tick/2 sec - and 6 sec go by (1440 dmg done), then crit again for 6k, you'll then reset the timer, and have a 960 tick/2 sec for 10 sec, right?
You can't 'cheat' with the UB stacking (aside from a known bug, but I'll ignore that). It's not possible to do bonus damage by casting DC whilst you still have UB up. The way ignite / deep wounds / UB work is that any remaining damage on the stack when it's refreshed is added. Damage already done is done and gone. Using an example with deliberately-easy-to-calculate numbers of 2 10k DCs, 7 seconds apart, and no glyph so 30% UB damage.
0s - DC cast, creates UB stack of 3k (or 5 * 600 damage ticks).
2s - UB ticks for 600
4s - UB ticks for 600
6s - UB ticks for 600
7s - DC cast, UB stack of 3k is added to existing remaining stack of 2 * 600, for a new total stack of 4200 (or 5 * 840 ticks).
6s - UB ticks for 840
8s - UB ticks for 840
10s - UB ticks for 840
12s - UB ticks for 840
14s- UB ticks for 840.
Total UB damage is 6k which is the same 2 * 3k as you'd also expect if recasting DC only when the initial UB wears off. So basically recasting doesn't increase the total damage done, it just changes the distribution of when that damage occurs. Whilst your ticks will increase in damage it's delayed damage from earlier DC casts, not new damage. Ultimately it means the theoretical dps will be less than the practical dps unless the stack drops off, because it will contain delayed UB damage from each of your DC casts.
Although it might look like it'd make a big difference as the stack keeps getting bigger, in practice the stack will converge towards a limit. In the above example (10k DCs seperated by 7 seconds) the stack would converge towards a total of 5k, or 1k ticks. Even if there was only a 5 (2 ticks used before refresh) it would converge towards 1.5k ticks. So the lost damage is never high regardless of fight duration; it would be unlikely to exceed 10k except in unusual circumstances.
You can't 'cheat' with the UB stacking (aside from a known bug, but I'll ignore that). It's not possible to do bonus damage by casting DC whilst you still have UB up. The way ignite / deep wounds / UB work is that any remaining damage on the stack when it's refreshed is added. Damage already done is done and gone. Using an example with deliberately-easy-to-calculate numbers of 2 10k DCs, 7 seconds apart, and no glyph so 30% UB damage.
0s - DC cast, creates UB stack of 3k (or 5 * 600 damage ticks).
2s - UB ticks for 600
4s - UB ticks for 600
6s - UB ticks for 600
7s - DC cast, UB stack of 3k is added to existing remaining stack of 2 * 600, for a new total stack of 4200 (or 5 * 840 ticks).
6s - UB ticks for 840
8s - UB ticks for 840
10s - UB ticks for 840
12s - UB ticks for 840
14s- UB ticks for 840.
Total UB damage is 6k which is the same 2 * 3k as you'd also expect if recasting DC only when the initial UB wears off. So basically recasting doesn't increase the total damage done, it just changes the distribution of when that damage occurs. Whilst your ticks will increase in damage it's delayed damage from earlier DC casts, not new damage. Ultimately it means the theoretical dps will be less than the practical dps unless the stack drops off, because it will contain delayed UB damage from each of your DC casts.
Although it might look like it'd make a big difference as the stack keeps getting bigger, in practice the stack will converge towards a limit. In the above example (10k DCs seperated by 7 seconds) the stack would converge towards a total of 5k, or 1k ticks. Even if there was only a 5 (2 ticks used before refresh) it would converge towards 1.5k ticks. So the lost damage is never high regardless of fight duration; it would be unlikely to exceed 10k except in unusual circumstances.
So what you're saying is, in simpler terms, is that the remaining damage in the first stack is distributed among the next 10 secs if the timer is reset?
If 1000 damage was left for the last tick, but the stack timer was reset with a new DC, then that 1000 would turn into 5 ticks of 200 + new tick damage (over 10 sec) instead of 1000 + new tick damage.
Also, for the record and everyone's information, if this new UB is comparable to Ignite, it will NOT double dip from other effects/talents/debuffs. It's purely and simply a % of the DC's damage.
So what you're saying is, in simpler terms, is that the remaining damage in the first stack is distributed among the next 10 secs if the timer is reset?
If 1000 damage was left for the last tick, but the stack timer was reset with a new DC, then that 1000 would turn into 5 ticks of 200 + new tick damage (over 10 sec) instead of 1000 + new tick damage.
Yes, that is basically a much simpler way of saying it .
I believe the Blood Strike numbers have already come down a bit from when we made those patch notes because it did seem like an all Blood Strike rotation might be feasible, which isn't something we want. But yet, we are going to have to see the numbers coming out of the PTR. We have learned our internal testing can only go so far.
Last edited by Nefiir : 06/23/09 at 6:02 PM.
Reason: added quote from GC
With the changes to Blood Strike and Unholy Blight, what do you guys think about this spec now?
You no longer have Reaping, because you will actually want to use 2x BS vs 1 SS (assuming the buff makes it better or equal).
Because of that you're using SS a lot less, and don't need Glyph of SS any longer, which can be replaced by Glyph of UB.
Maybe I'm missing something, but I'm definately trying this spec out when PTR comes up.
I'm pretty sure by the end of PTR, they will have made sure that SS is still superior to two BSs, that's the reason they nerfed the first incarnation of BS.
I'm pretty sure by the end of PTR, they will have made sure that SS is still superior to two BSs, that's the reason they nerfed the first incarnation of BS.
They have to revert BS back to live values then. SS is frighteningly weak at the moment.
Granted they've already said they don't want BS to be a main attack so it will get nerfed, but if by chance it doesn't this seems pretty solid to me.
I don't think Death Rune Mastery changes Scourge Strikes runes to Death (at least the tooltip still only signals Death Strike and Obliterate, haven't tested it on Testrealms though).
Be as it may, if going for full BS rotation, it might be worth it going all the way down to Bloody Strikes in Blood to maximize the BS damage, perhaps skipping SS as you go (considering you'd be using three disease Obliterate to build the Death Runes for BS). This sort of stuff is discussed more in depth at Dual Wield Builds -thread, though. Those folks seem to love theorizing with weird builds - perhaps distant longing for the 0/33/38.
Granted they've already said they don't want BS to be a main attack so it will get nerfed, but if by chance it doesn't this seems pretty solid to me.
It's 25% per disease now.
Edit: Here's today's updates.
* Blood Plague: Damage done increased by 15%.
* Blood Strike: The bonus damage this ability receives from diseases on the target has been increased to 25% per disease.
* Chains of Ice: Now reduces movement by 95% instead of 100%. The main effect of this change will be that targets of Chains of Ice will not have to re-issue a movement command to continue moving.
*Frost Fever: Damage done increased by 15%.
I don't think Death Rune Mastery changes Scourge Strikes runes to Death (at least the tooltip still only signals Death Strike and Obliterate, haven't tested it on Testrealms though).
Be as it may, if going for full BS rotation, it might be worth it going all the way down to Bloody Strikes in Blood to maximize the BS damage, perhaps skipping SS as you go (considering you'd be using three disease Obliterate to build the Death Runes for BS). This sort of stuff is discussed more in depth at Dual Wield Builds -thread, though. Those folks seem to love theorizing with weird builds - perhaps distant longing for the 0/33/38.
Good point I have been frost so long I didn't even think about it not applying to Scourge Strike. But going up to bloody strikes does seem pretty huge with this spec, so maybe something along the lines of http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...&version=10026 would be viable, replacing SS completely with OB.
I dont get the latest Unholy Changes.
Obviously there are some issues atm. Mostly of Unholy DKs being too bursty in PvP and of them being mandatory in some PvE Encounters. The reason of this is Ebonplague and the way too high AoE Dmg.
Now they are doing something to tone down AoE by nerfing Unholy Blight for AoE Situations. But they are forgetting the real Problem, which is Disease Spreading.
Not only are Diseases doing way too much AoE dmg by itself, they are also bringing Ebonplague on every mob, which nobody else can do AND crypt fever to buff all other DKs in the Raid.
Now what are they doing in 3.2 to lower AoE? Nerfing Unholy Blight, well its ok but probably the wrong approach.
But what do I see today on mmo-champion? Disease dmg Buff by 15%, the 4 piece setbonus buffing diseases by a big amount (they can crit now) and the new sigil giving strength instead of buffing strikes, which will also result in increased Disease dmg (probably something like 6-7% considering 2k Basestrength in T9 gear).
This will result in much increased disease dmg and therefore in even higher AoE dmg compared too Single Target dmg, than right now. Diseases are Doing 30-35% in AoE Situations UB only 10-12%. Diseases being buffed will result in a higher dmg increase, than the loss of UB.
Ways of maybe fixing this:
Bloodstrikes instead of Diseases cause 20s Cryptfever/Ebonplague => 30% less Diseasedmg in AoE Situations. Ebonplague would be more inline with Warlock Curse/Moonkin thing.
Removing Wandering Plague and letting Unholy dots Single Target Crit without inner CD of 8s.
Obviously the 4pc T9 Bonus would have to be changed.
06/20/09, 12:28 AM
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