sweberry

Then I'm really curious about some more information; exact spec, priority, etc.

 

• vank

Did you read my post? I posted the spec, the priority, everything. Please note that this was done on ver 0.9.7, as 0.9.8 hadn't come out yet. Anyways, I'm not sure what more I can provide you. I just ran it again and got:

Ability	Total	%	Landed	Hit%	Crit%	Miss%	Average
Obliterate	1115607254	17	178275	57	42	0	6257
Plague Strike	112073429	1	44572	51	48	0	2514
Icy Touch	127385975	2	44570	67	32	0	2858
Blood Strike	245137604	3	89137	57	42	0	2750
Death Coil	1071811348	16	169918	66	32	0	6307
UB	214365292	3	169918	100	0	0	1261
Frost Fever	344880019	5	272845	100	0	0	1264
Blood Plague	344959212	5	272488	100	0	0	1265
Necrosis	137837658	2	324910	100	0	0	424
Blood Caked Blade	171425344	2	97480	100	0	0	1758
Wandering Plague	291797369	4	230664	99	0	0	1265
Main Hand	1148300239	18	324910	57	42	0	3534
Ghoul	724431416	11	809416	86	13	0	895
Gargoyle	288221325	4	83050	86	13	0	3470
DPS 7042
Total Damage 6338233484 in 250 h
Threat Per Second 4773
Generated in 161s
Template :0-17-54-Oblit.xml(C:\Users\Robin\Desktop\DKSimulator0.9.7\Templates\0-17-54-Oblit.xml)
Priority :Unholy.xml(C:\Users\Robin\Desktop\DKSimulator0.9.7\Priority\Unholy.xml)
Presence :Blood
Sigil of :VengefulHeart
RuneForge :FallenCrusader
Pet Calculation :True

 

Odii

Yeah, looking at it 0-17-54 looks the better deal. Im not sure what I did to get that run over 7k, but I am getting reproduce-able 6850 results with 2hstatset2. Not a bad result, but you can get better with OB if you double dip in the RP generating talents and go blood presence, since Unholy presence does nothing for disease damage.

 

sweberry

@Vonk: Yes, I read your post. Full information would include exact priority as you typed it in and I'd love the actual spec and priority used for your 12/0/59 and 3/13/55 too. I tried simming 12/0/59 as I thought it would look like and didn't get close to 6500, so I assume I did something wrong.

Anyway, an EPAP for the 0/17/54 would be lovely too, but I'm not sure if the simulator is still messed up with exp/hit? Can still get the rest of the stats though.

 

• vank

I used the template in the sim for the builds in question. There's no mystery here. As I listed the priority is/was:

Blood Plague
Frost Fever
Obliterate
Blood Strike
Death Coil

for a build with Obliterate. Substitute Scourge Strike for Obliterate for a Scourge Strike build. That's all there is to it.

 

sweberry

Actually, you didn't list it, and I'd appreciate if you soften up that attitude a bit, all I'm trying to do here is find out what is necessary to know so I can sim it myself and confirm your results.

I keep getting results around the 7175 dps-area using your 0/17/54-spec and this priority:

The main difference i see is that both my Obliterate and Death Coil are averaging around 3-400 more dmg than yours.

 

• vank

"Priority is Blood Plague>Frost Fever>Obliterate>Blood Strike>Death Coil."

I copied that from post #998, my first on the topic and the one you responded to asking for the priority.

More on topic, I'll try your priority as I forgot about the Max Runic Power option for DC. Thanks for posting that.

 

Dîabolos

Has any testing been done of the new sigil vs. vengeful heart?

 

Dwwimm

I understand that it seems great news to be competitive with unholy OB, but honestly that's really sad to not use SS which is why we should go in the unholy tree.


Anyway, thank for your sims, we'd really appreciate an AeP for 0/17/54, as I geared for much more haste than ArP and need some adjustments before release ;o

 

Consider

Unholy being competitive will be a nice change. Unholy being competitive without using Scourge Strike (without even speccing in to it) is strange, certainly unintended, and destined to be nerfed/changed. Will be enjoyable in the mean time, however.

On the PTR, the new sigil had a 100% uptime, presumably for testing purposes, and as such it's real value is unknown. If such an uptime was intended (kinda doubtful), then yes, it would far outperform VH. However, odds are the new sigil will receive some sort of ICD, lower proc rate, or something, so there is no real way of knowing how potent it is (or isn't).

 

Paine

Im assuming it will be a similar dps rating to Frost specs, though I dont think that data was ever fully confirmed? The heavy reliance on deathcoil / pets in unholy means we dont have to worry about it TOO much even with Obliterate.

So its possible that items such as Melancholy Sabatons would be good to switch out, but only because they have insane amounts of ARP. Other BIS unholy items such as Frigid Neck and Voldrethar come nicely with ARP already =)

I also hope that Blizz sorts this out, as skipping an end-talent strike is pretty rediculous.

As in the ARP rating for Frost pre3.2^^

 

Caesium

With the patch coming much sooner than i anticipated i have some quick questions!

Which spec is looking to be the most effective for 3.2? I've noticed some discussion on Obliterate > SS, is this fact or just theory?

 

Woy

The first post I saw with some theory behind OB over SS was #958 in this thread. There are some sim results at #977 and #998.

 

Consider

Fact. In a raid setting, with sunder and all the relevant buffs/debuffs, it takes only 18% armor penetration for Obliterate to out-damage Scourge Strike. The difference only widens as you gain ArP.

Even if Obliterate did not out-damage Scourge Strike at such an easily reachable amount of ArP, it produces more RP (in a 0/17/54 spec), meaning even at zero ArP, Ob is superior. You produce 150 rp/20s with CotF as opposed to 125 rp/20s without, meaning you are essentially getting 20% more DC/UB damage.

Currently, 0/17/54 is the presumed highest dps spec for Unholy, based on previously posted simulations (and napkin math/theorycrafting supports it).

 

Jesabelle

I have a question about the 0/17/54 build. The example by Vank shows 2 points in Icy Talons, however I was under the impression that icy talons doesn't stack with Windfury (or another DK's Improved Icy Talons).

If this is indeed the case, I'm wondering if maybe those 2 points might be better off in Icy Reach for any fight where there's a lot of movement, allowing you to do an Icy Touch sooner? yeah, I know it's a stretch, but in theory 2 points in Icy Talons could be doing nothing at all. (Though, the simulator did show it to be an increase, so I'm pretty confused)

 

Afabar

I would be surprised if Icy Talon would change anything in the simulator exept a small variation due to RNG. It didn't even read the value in the xml file.
Check yourself :
Sim.vb - dksimulator - Project Hosting on Google Code line 982 to 1000

 

Dêath

Regarding the Obliterate heavy Unholy build:
Could anyone enlighten me on whether or not the improved RP generation for Obliterate from Chill of the grave stacks with that granted by Dirge? If not it seems like a wasted couple talent pts. (hello max necrosis?)

 

Consider

Of course it does. Why wouldn't it? Obliterate produces 25 RP with both talents. That's half the point of the spec - increased RP generation (150 per two rune refreshes as opposed to 125 without CotG, which is 20% more RP produced and, thus, 20% more DCs).

 

Citgo

Assuming the OB-UH rotation is the same as 3.1's SS-UH rotation (just with OB in place of SS), how beneficial would 3/3 Subversion (9% crit on ob/bs) + 1 floating point be versus 2 wasted points in Icy talons (WF overwrites this, I believe) for the 2 points in CotG (5RP/OB)?

0/17/54 vs 3/13/54 (+1)

 

Blackteddy

The whole point of two wasted talents in Icy talons is to get Chill of the Grave.

 

Consider

CotG is the clear winner.

Look at Vank's simulation numbers up above. Obl + BS accounted for 20% more damage. 9% more to that (since Obliterate and BS both have the regular 100% crit modifier in either spec) is an approximate 1.8% increase in overall damage.

DC + UB, on the other hand, accounted for 19% of his total damage. He was already specced in to CotG for these tests, so you have to do the reverse math (how much damage DC + UB would have accounted for without CotF). Producing 125 RP instead of 150 RP means he would have had 83.33% as much damage from those two abilities - meaning you go from 19% of his total damage to 15.83%. In other words, CotG is accounting for about 4% of your total dps - far more damage than Subversion under any circumstance.

That's simply quick napkin math, but it gets the point across. CotG is far stronger than Subversion, even accounting for the two "wasted" points you need to spend to get there.

[Edit]: That isn't to say 3/13/55 is a bad spec. It is simply inferior from a pure DPS perspective to 0/17/54. It's kinda like going 7/10/54 right now as opposed to 0/10/61. You trade 1-2% dps for 25% threat reduction. Personally, I prefer the former, but if threat is a concern, the latter isn't far behind. Either now or then.

 

allons

0/17/54 This spec requires 20%+ Armor Penetration in order for it to out scale a SS Unholy build

I plan on using 0/10/61 PS – IT - BS - BS - SS - RP // SS - SS - SS – RP

 

Consider

No, it doesn't. 0/17/54 will outscale 0/10/61 SS-based builds at almost any current gear level, regardless of how much ArP you do or do not have. That magical "20%" number was coming from an earlier test comparing 3/13/55 to 0/10/61. 0/17/54, on the other hand, not only does higher dps than 3/13/54 (as established not two posts above) to begin with, it also places less emphasis on Obliterate, and thus has a smaller (non-existent) ArP requirement to outperform 0/10/61.

Can you still use a SS build/rotation? Yes. But it will be inferior to all of your other options - Blood, Frost DW, Unholy Ob, or even PS/IT Unholy spam.

Considering this forum is explicitly designed and intended to discuss what is most optimal... yeah. 0/10/61 has absolutely nothing on 0/17/54 - not superior aoe, not superior single target, not an added benefit like threat reduction. It is, in every way, inferior to 0/17/54 Obliterate.

 

Claasified

I have been reading the latest 10 pages, but I havent found the skill rotation for 0/17/54 and the major glyphs, would OB just replace SS in the 3.1 rotation?

 

Consider

Yes, the same rotation - PS IT BS BS OB Horn DC // OB DC OB DC OB DC (That horn is necessary to get off four DCs. If you are getting RP from AMS/Disc Priest/Resto druid, you can drop it if you are getting enough for another whole DC, but otherwise, you have the free GCD, so you may as well use it to produce RP and get off the extra DC).

The glyphs are Ghoul, Obliterate, and Dark Death.