The wowhead and armory talent calculators are glitchy at the moment.

Working fine for me.


Anyways, as anyone come up with a AEP weight table for 3.2 unholy ?

Use http://talent.mmo-champion.com and then you don't have to worry about a build not displaying correctly as mmo-champion uses a version number for each build made. It also eliminates old builds from ever becoming unreadable.

-Bocaop

Yep, seems only MMO Champion works right now.
So, could you put 0/17/54 template on this calculator please?
Thanks.

I think this is the spec template of course the 2 extra points in Icy talons has been debated as what's best to "waste" them on so to speak - 0/17/54

yep its this one, thanks.

Another simulation using 0/17/54 (5/5 Necrosis, 3/5 Desolation).

2HStatset2 was used for this simulation.

Priority used:

<BloodPlague></BloodPlague>
<FrostFever></FrostFever>
<Obliterate></Obliterate>
<BloodStrike></BloodStrike>
<DeathCoil></DeathCoil>

I forgot to input the DeathCoilMaxRP, but this should give at least another (slightly longer) simulation of the spec.

Ability	Total	%	Landed	Hit%	Crit%	Miss%	Average
Obliterate	22097818927	17	3599975	57	42	0	6138
Plague Strike	2252907337	1	899995	51	48	0	2503
Icy Touch	2527092216	2	899995	67	32	0	2807
Blood Strike	4869529572	3	1799988	57	42	0	2705
Death Coil	22310779390	18	3599943	67	32	0	6197
UB	4463445409	3	3599943	100	0	0	1239
Frost Fever	6690897716	5	5400038	100	0	0	1239
Blood Plague	6709475696	5	5400038	100	0	0	1242
Necrosis	4577559245	3	6599307	100	0	0	693
Blood Caked Blade	3424412734	2	1981164	100	0	0	1728
Wandering Plague	5687249405	4	4584080	100	0	0	1240
Main Hand	22898055535	18	6599307	57	42	0	3469
Ghoul	14656562801	11	16367911	86	13	0	895
Gargoyle	1310148	0	378	89	10	0	3466

DPS 6843
Total Damage 123167096131 in 5000 h
Threat Per Second 4863
Generated in 8045s
Template :uhob.xml(C:\Users\Alyse\Documents\DKSimulator0.9.8\Templates\uhob.xml)
Priority :OBUH.xml(C:\Users\Alyse\Documents\DKSimulator0.9.8\Priority\OBUH.xml)
Presence :Blood
Sigil of :VengefulHeart
RuneForge :FallenCrusader
Pet Calculation :True

It seems my simulation is a bit lower than some of the others that were done earlier; they seemed to hit around ~7100 or so. Not sure exactly why my simulation seems lower, perhaps there's something here I'm missing?

It's something with your Gargoyle. Although on a per-hit basis, it seems correct (3kish strikes), the number of hits is low. Dramatically lower than it should be. Is the simulation using it on cooldown, or priotizing DC? Something along those lines?

Only 370 gargoyle strikes over a 5000 hour simulation is hugely flawed. At 15ish a summon, 20 summons an hour, there should be over a million strikes.

[Edit] Yeah, I am fairly positive that's it. Looking back at Vank's numbers, he had a pretty similar breakdown of how much each ability accounted for of the total damage, except for Gargoyle. Something you did was just way wrong there.

Here is what I have put together for a version of 0/17/54 that makes some use of the 2 extra points in frost, and also takes imp unholy presence. Since desolation is comparable to necrosis, I took a point out of it instead of out of wandering plague to fill out IUP - but that decision was made just based on extrapolation on the results of others.

What is the rotation being used with this build?

For the 18-20% armor pen, is that something you want to maintain? Or is that a baseline?

You need to "waste" that 2 points in Frost in order to get Chill of the Grave so either you put them in IT or in IR/LB

For the glyph now with 0/17/54, it's been said to use the Glyph of Obliterate. However, I heard of some problems before with the Glyph of Obliterate where it does not increase total damage after diseases by 20%, but that it increases the base damage before diseases. Is Glyph of Obliterate still the way to go?

Also, as for the 2 points in frost that need to be wasted, you can waste them with Icy Talons and although it is true that a Windfury Totem would make the IT worthless, I suppose, for some people, a Shaman may not always be present (non-raid) so the IT would become more useful than LB/IR. Of course, like someone pointed out before, this is all situational.

I must say I do miss having iUP for the 15% speed increase at all times, and ghoul frenzy - feels odd. Would it be a bad idea to leave Necrosis at 3/5, and change Desolation to 3/5 to get 2/2 iUP?

I am actually thinking the same. Some have opted for 5/5 necrosis, which in theory would be the best on a static Patchwerk style fight, but personal preference and experience tells me IUP would indeed be the way to go.

I can run a simulation later using something other than the glyph of OB. I'm not sure which other ones might compare though. Some choices might include Glyph of IT or Glyph of Unholy Blight, but my intuition says the Glyph of OB is still going to outpace those two.


Here's a quick re-run of a simulation using Glyph of OB:
(200ms, 2HStatset2, 500hours, 0/17/54 as linked from my previous post, Glyph of Ghoul/OB/Dark Death)

Ability	Total	%	Landed	Hit%	Crit%	Miss%	Average
Obliterate	2187379812	17	356201	57	42	0	6140
Plague Strike	220536647	1	89084	50	49	0	2475
Icy Touch	250270960	1	89060	66	32	0	2810
Blood Strike	481109288	3	178103	56	43	0	2701
Death Coil	2108977887	16	340490	66	32	0	6193
UB	421916667	3	340490	100	0	0	1239
Frost Fever	676734976	5	545653	100	0	0	1240
Blood Plague	676659032	5	544908	100	0	0	1241
Necrosis	457717994	3	659931	100	0	0	693
Blood Caked Blade	342455234	2	198522	100	0	0	1725
Wandering Plague	570079194	4	459338	99	0	0	1241
Main Hand	2289613556	18	659931	56	43	0	3469
Ghoul	1465183013	11	1636793	87	12	0	895
Gargoyle	521151226	4	150361	86	12	0	3466

DPS 7039
Total Damage 12669785486 in 500 h
Threat Per Second 4788
Generated in 796s
Template :uhob.xml(C:\Users\Alyse\Documents\DKSimulator0.9.8\Templates\uhob.xml)
Priority :OBUH.xml(C:\Users\Alyse\Documents\DKSimulator0.9.8\Priority\OBUH.xml)
Presence :Blood
Sigil of :VengefulHeart
RuneForge :FallenCrusader
Pet Calculation :True

Doing some quick (and really messy) napkin math using the sim:
Glyph of OB increases damage done with OB by 20%. Assuming it's working as intended:

2187370812/1.2=1822809010 - New OB damage.

2187370812-1822809010=364561802 Damage loss.

12669785486-364561802=12305223684

12305223684/500/60/60=6836 DPS

So total DPS will drop from 7039 to 6836 (approximately 200 DPS increase using glyph of OB).

Glyph of UB increases damage done with UB by 40%. UB does 20% of a DC; with the glyph it would be doing 28% of a DC.

Without UB glyph: 1.0*1.15(Glyph of DD)*1.20(UB)= 1.38

With UB Glyph: 1.0*1.15(DD)*1.28(Glyphed UB)= 1.472

Which leads to a ~6.6667% increase to DC's damage.

1.06667~*2108977887=~2249576413

2249576413-2108977887=140598526 - Damage increase from UB

12305223684+140598526=12445822210

12445822210/500/60/60=6914 DPS.

So glyph of UB is slightly less than a 100 DPS increase, still a net loss from OB.
This would bump up the DPS from 6836 to about 6914, which still is a net loss from glyph of OB.

Using Glyph of IT, our rotation would be something like:
PS-IT-BS-BS-OB / OB-OB-OB over 20s.
Over the spam of a minute, the glyph would generate 30RP, meaning 3/4s of a deathcoil every minute. Assuming you can fit these extra DCs into your GCDs;

0.75*500*60=22500 extra DCs @ 6193 each.

22500*6193=139342500 - Damage gained from Glyph of IT.

12305223684+139342500=12444566184

12444566184/500/60/60=6914 DPS.

Which, coincidentally, is the exact same DPS increase as UB. Feel free to peer at the math for errors, but it seems that if the glyph of OB is working as intended, it is definitely the way to go.

With regards to the Necrosis/Desolation vs. IuP, any points in IuP is a theoretical DPS loss on a still Patchwerk fight. As said before, its value is difficult to pin a number to, but it definitely shines on high movement fights. This would be somewhat of a personal preference thing, as would be Ghoul Frenzy.

Thank you for the simulation. I decided to go with Glyph of Obliterate and it seems like a good option. I have yet to raid with the 3.2 changes, however, but I am optimistic. Hopefully, with this glyph and raid buffs, my crits with the 0/17/54 build will jump to about 8.5-9k again (I haven't seen one crit above 6k in Heroics as of yet, but I guess raid buffs can resolve that issue somewhat).

For those that would like IuP, one suggestion (not yet tested), is to go 2/5 Necrosis and 4/5 Desolation to get the 2 points. That provides somewhat of a balance for static and dynamic fights like that which has been mentioned before (Patchwerk vs. say Heigan).

Long-time reader, few-time poster here. I read mostly through DK and Rogue stuff now and, needless to say, I was shocked about SS falling to the wayside. Really great work you have all done here.

Just a quick couple of questions:

Why is Necrosis valued over Desolation in regards to the new Oblit spec? Necrosis was not better than 3.1's Desecration 5% buff (numbers I remember seeing were Necrosis at 3.5-4% for 5 pts versus Desecration's effective 4-4.5% for the same 5 points). Is the new value on Necrosis being placed on the fact that Necrosis passively benefits from ArP, which Unholy finally wants a fairly substantial amount of due to the Oblit desirability?

I still have a gut feeling that even post-Oblit ArP desires, Desolation still wins out in a raid environment, especially considering our other percentage talents present in the spec: Black Ice, Impurity, Ebon Plaguebriner, Rage of Rivendare and Bone Shield.

Also. what's the new value being placed on Wandering Plague? Is it worth it anymore to maintain or is it feasible to give it up to get, say, IUP and GF?

Necrosis isn't really valued over Desolation, it's just that the two are so close, it comes down to personal preference (and, personally, if the two bring nearly the same dps, Necrosis is the clear winner in my book. Phase changes, aoe encounters, etcetera all diminish the value of Desolation. Necrosis, on the other hand, is consistently the same dps on every fight, so long as you're auto-attacking).

Math wise, look at Alyse's simulation numbers a couple posts up (#1067). He was specced in to 5/5 Necrosis and 3/5 Desolation. If, instead, he went to 4/5 Necrosis and 4/5 Desolation, he would have lost 91 543 598.8 damage (from the point less in Necrosis) but gained 106 834 512 damage (from the additional point in Desolation). That's a net gain of 15 290 913.7 damage. Since the simulation was done over the period of 500 hours, that comes out to 8.5 dps.

8.5. Probably even less when you consider Desolation might not have a 100% up time in an actual raid encounter. That's a single digit difference. Suffice is to say, it's all up to the individual.

Wandering Plague is one of the best bang-for-your-buck talents in a single target encounter, and is just outrageous in AoE. More so now than ever, thanks to the disease buffs. Using the same aforementioned numbers from Alyse, it accouned for ~4% of his total dps. That's 1.33% a point - better than Necrosis, better than Desolation, better than BCB. If you want to grab IUP or GF, take the points from one of those three talents, definitely not WP. WP is not optional.

What do you guys think of NOT taking bone shield, having 2 points in Desolation and 5 into Necrosis? Seeing as how you get the 2% damage from bone shield with 2 points into desolation, while maxing out Necrosis all the while.

There's absolutely zero reason to not take Bone Shield. It is one of the best dps talents - a 1.7% dps boost at nearly all times. It's already been shown that 1 point in Desolation or 1 point in Necrosis are far less than that, and thus inferior. This isn't even factoring in the near passive -20% damage which is pretty invaluable with all the raid AoE thrown around these days.

There is no reason to even entertain the possibility of dropping Bone Shield.

Besides, you can already get 2/5 Desolation and 5/5 Necrosis without dropping it, so long as you don't care for maxing IUP and/or grabbing GF.

A suggestion for everybody running with an enhance shaman (for the 0-17-54-UnholyOB spec):

We could drop Icy talons and pick Icy reach. Moreover, we can drop one point in Necrosis and pick Ghoul Frenzy.

This makes it possible to start each fight with

GF-IT-IT-PS (with GF-IT-IT while still in range).

This also can be used when we loose contact with a boss. Icy reach is usefull in range situation and for openings and GF works well with it since if you IT twice in range and PS when in close combat, you have an unholy rune sitting there.

I'm curious how Blizz is going to fix this situation. Meaning, the best Unholy DPS builds won't be taking scourge strike. As it is right now I'm trying my best to get a slow OH to go DW frost now because of this silliness.