Unholy Gains Shadow of Death (Unholy DPS Discussion now with more 3.2!) - Page 61

crazy dodo · 06/24/09, 8:19 AM

Originally Posted by Nachtmahr

I dont get the latest Unholy Changes.
Obviously there are some issues atm. Mostly of Unholy DKs being too bursty in PvP and of them being mandatory in some PvE Encounters. The reason of this is Ebonplague and the way too high AoE Dmg.
Now they are doing something to tone down AoE by nerfing Unholy Blight for AoE Situations. But they are forgetting the real Problem, which is Disease Spreading.
Not only are Diseases doing way too much AoE dmg by itself, they are also bringing Ebonplague on every mob, which nobody else can do AND crypt fever to buff all other DKs in the Raid.

Now what are they doing in 3.2 to lower AoE? Nerfing Unholy Blight, well its ok but probably the wrong approach.
But what do I see today on mmo-champion? Disease dmg Buff by 15%, the 4 piece setbonus buffing diseases by a big amount (they can crit now) and the new sigil giving strength instead of buffing strikes, which will also result in increased Disease dmg (probably something like 6-7% considering 2k Basestrength in T9 gear).
This will result in much increased disease dmg and therefore in even higher AoE dmg compared too Single Target dmg, than right now. Diseases are Doing 30-35% in AoE Situations UB only 10-12%. Diseases being buffed will result in a higher dmg increase, than the loss of UB.

Ways of maybe fixing this:

Bloodstrikes instead of Diseases cause 20s Cryptfever/Ebonplague => 30% less Diseasedmg in AoE Situations. Ebonplague would be more inline with Warlock Curse/Moonkin thing.

Removing Wandering Plague and letting Unholy dots Single Target Crit without inner CD of 8s.
Obviously the 4pc T9 Bonus would have to be changed.

^ Any reason why a warrior is QQing in this thread?

And I've said this before - if DK's were meant to behave like another class then there would be no point in creating this class in the first place. Complaining about DK AOE is absurd when rogues or druids can pull off 10k+ AOE in a matter of seconds with a single button spam when a DK needs at least 3 seconds setup time and at least some understanding of rune cooldowns in order to maximise our AOE dps

Nachtmahr · 06/24/09, 10:17 AM

actually im playing dk since relase of wotlk. The profile just wasnt up to date.
And since im in a progressing guild which just killed freya hardmode and is progressing Mimiron, my objective opinion is, that dk AoE Dps is way to high (i did 8,5k dps with disease being 35% of my dmg). Rogue Aoe DPS is way too high as well, but thats not what we are debating about

The problem is, that nerfing UB wont hurt me a lick, if diseases are buffed. Dont care about UB that much, its just a nice gimmick.
Single Target DPS of Unholy is in line maybe a little too low, AoE DPS isnt in line at all.

Dyallo · 06/24/09, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by Nachtmahr

actually im playing dk since relase of wotlk. The profile just wasnt up to date.
And since im in a progressing guild which just killed freya hardmode and is progressing Mimiron, my objective opinion is, that dk AoE Dps is way to high (i did 8,5k dps with disease being 35% of my dmg). Rogue Aoe DPS is way too high as well, but thats not what we are debating about

The problem is, that nerfing UB wont hurt me a lick, if diseases are buffed. Dont care about UB that much, its just a nice gimmick.
Single Target DPS of Unholy is in line maybe a little too low, AoE DPS isnt in line at all.

Hello.
We are in fact, not debating any nerfs to DK at all. Instead this thread is about achieving the highest dps with Unholy..

Any other class but Warriors (which is your main?) can achieve 8k AoE dps btw, maybe that's why you are here in the first place?

Originally Posted by Chimp1422

take the 5 out of necrosis, put em in bcb and desecration, and take the 3 from toughness and put em in improved icy touch.

then sure, its a feasable spec.

Desecration no longer provides the damage buff man.. therefore this is not a DPS talent

Nachtmahr · 06/24/09, 10:38 AM

the highest dps is stacking strength, amazing isnt it?
wouldnt have needed 37 pages to figure that out...

I was just interested to share my opinion, but it doesnt seem to be wanted, that i do, since everybody seems to be scared of being nerfed.

Bottom line, im dissapointed about how they handle single target vs. AoE dps. We will continue to be Kings of AoE and kinda suck at single taget dps, and i dont like it. Esspecially since 1 Unholy DK seems so be mandatory for every serious raiding guild, just for the freaking debuffs.

dr_AllCOM3 · 06/24/09, 10:44 AM

A disease buff isn't Unholy only. Every DK profits from it. Blizz simply wants to make diseases a bit more promiment. They also aren't overpowered, since they take some time to set up.

EP is what's overpowered. No other class can buff aoe damage so massively. 3% more damage would be in line with other raid buffs.

Maccii · 06/24/09, 11:24 AM

Don't know if this is known yet or not, but anyway.

Quick and dirty test in PTR showed that both of the new sigils are insanely overpowered in their current versions. DPS sigil procced 8 times on 10 strikes, giving it easily 100% uptime, while tanking sigil procced on every single rune strike (about 10 done also). I honestly can't see them going live like that.

Metaknight · 06/24/09, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by Maccii

Don't know if this is known yet or not, but anyway.

Quick and dirty test in PTR showed that both of the new sigils are insanely overpowered in their current versions. DPS sigil procced 8 times on 10 strikes, giving it easily 100% uptime, while tanking sigil procced on every single rune strike (about 10 done also). I honestly can't see them going live like that.

Even if they do nerf the proc rate, the Strength it gives is just too good to ignore. I'm definately saving my Triupmh badges for that. I'll still be gunning for the XT Sigil though due to UB working like Deep Wounds which will probably push it over awareness.

Nefiir · 06/24/09, 1:21 PM

Any word from PTR as to whether or not the Coliseum 25 Normal Melee Trinket (When you deal damage you have a chance to gain Paragon, increasing your Strength or Agility by 450 for 15 sec. Your highest stat is always chosen.) stacks with the Greatness Card proc? That will, I assume, have BiS implications.

Griefpb · 06/24/09, 6:34 PM

Originally Posted by Nefiir

Any word from PTR as to whether or not the Coliseum 25 Normal Melee Trinket (When you deal damage you have a chance to gain Paragon, increasing your Strength or Agility by 450 for 15 sec. Your highest stat is always chosen.) stacks with the Greatness Card proc? That will, I assume, have BiS implications.

Can you give us a link to this? I've been follow mmo-champ and haven't seen anything like that, but it would probably be a contender for BiS, especially if it stacks w/ greatness.

Bungie · 06/24/09, 6:54 PM

Originally Posted by Griefpb

Can you give us a link to this? I've been follow mmo-champ and haven't seen anything like that, but it would probably be a contender for BiS, especially if it stacks w/ greatness.

It's on mmo-champion, but it just outlines what the proc looks like and doesn't say what kind of stats it has on it, chances are even it if has something like hit (LOL) it may still be best in slot and can be worked into an optimal gear set. I'm just eager to find out if they are going to make two trinkets better than greatness in 3.2 or if we will still be using it on Arthas.

Metaknight · 06/24/09, 7:34 PM

Well from a single target standpoint, I'm actaully feeling a bit stronger. Probably it's partially because Blood Strike is pretty out of line atm, but I am seeing an actually very solid DPS increase from Dummy tests and a couple of instances I ran in single target situations, altough they did indeed take a clean 1K off SS criticals. Now in AoE situations, I'm definately feelin the nerfs. Now I've gone from tailing Rogues to being only in the higher echlon of AoE, which is probably what they intended. Maybe the doom'n gloom was a bit apprehensive.

And the better part about this, is that from what I checked I was missing a talent point and Unholy Blight wasn't even working properly, so I'd like to see what happens when they update the PTR and fix all these bugs.

Melchior · 06/24/09, 7:37 PM

Originally Posted by Metaknight

Well from a single target standpoint, I'm actaully feeling a bit stronger. Probably it's partially because Blood Strike is pretty out of line atm, but I am seeing an actually very solid DPS increase from Dummy tests and a couple of instances I ran in single target situations, altough they did indeed take a clean 1K off SS criticals. Now in AoE situations, I'm definately feelin the nerfs. Now I've gone from tailing Rogues to being only in the higher echlon of AoE, which is probably what they intended. Maybe the doom'n gloom was a bit apprehensive.

And the better part about this, is that from what I checked I was missing a talent point and Unholy Blight wasn't even working properly, so I'd like to see what happens when they update the PTR and fix all these bugs.

Yeah, I'm also short a talent point and am unable to put a point into Unholy Blight at all.

Metaknight · 06/24/09, 8:00 PM

Originally Posted by Melchior

Yeah, I'm also short a talent point and am unable to put a point into Unholy Blight at all.

It only seems to affect DKs too, My Prot Paladin has all 71 of his points as well.

Maybe the cause is because the Data of the Old UB is still in the game thus causing a conflict?

Melchior · 06/24/09, 8:02 PM

Originally Posted by Metaknight

It only seems to affect DKs too, My Prot Paladin has all 71 of his points as well.

Maybe the cause is because the Data of the Old UB is still in the game thus causing a conflict?

Probably so. My DK still has the old UB in her spellbook and it is usable.

Dreamwalker · 06/25/09, 12:43 AM

Originally Posted by Melchior

Probably so. My DK still has the old UB in her spellbook and it is usable.

I know talents were wiped when you copied over, but it could be due to having the ability talented and in your spell book when you copied. I was on the PTR the night it came up and the new unholy blight worked fine for me.