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08/06/09, 3:10 PM
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#1081
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Glass Joe
Orc Death Knight
Bonechewer
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Originally Posted by Farami
Soooo my UB ticks for like ~250 at max. It doesn't seem to roll at all, just refreshes. Known bug?
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I thought at first it was bugged and not stacking but I believe it is working correctly.
Say your avg dc dmg is 6000. 20% would be 1200. over 10seconds thats 120 per second. so you get two stacked up itll be 240. three would be 360 and I have had some ticks over 300-400.
Once a deathcoil has done its ub damage though it drops off...
like if you death coil after your first set of runes once... then say theres 3seconds left of that UB dot left when you dc again it does not reset the entire duration of your first dc back to 10seconds... it will finish ticking the last three seconds then your latest dc damage still exists... I think im wording that oddly hope it isnt too confusing.
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08/06/09, 3:11 PM
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#1082
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Glass Joe
Undead Death Knight
Wrathbringer (EU)
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Well, that's some seriously low damage then. I mean, come on it ticks for like 300 max, that's half of one of our diseases... Not that pretty. 
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08/06/09, 3:16 PM
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#1083
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Glass Joe
Orc Death Knight
Bonechewer
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Originally Posted by Farami
Well, that's some seriously low damage then. I mean, come on it ticks for like 300 max, that's half of one of our diseases... Not that pretty. 
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if it reset the duration and the damage kept stacking indefinitely though it would be a lil overpowered.
and actually its much lower than half. my avg disease ticks are 1100-1200 raid buffed and avg ub dot ends up being around 200-300 or so
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08/06/09, 3:35 PM
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#1084
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Glass Joe
Undead Death Knight
Wrathbringer (EU)
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Originally Posted by Konishi
if it reset the duration and the damage kept stacking indefinitely though it would be a lil overpowered.
and actually its much lower than half. my avg disease ticks are 1100-1200 raid buffed and avg ub dot ends up being around 200-300 or so
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I don't get why they had to nerf the original new UB to 20% - It wasn't op in any way and now its just seriously underpowered. 
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08/06/09, 3:55 PM
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#1085
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Piston Honda
Blood Elf Death Knight
Bladefist
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I dunno... if you could keep it stacked at 2, and it's constantly ticking for 250 dps... that's > 5% of your damage for 1 talent point. Still seems pretty good to me
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08/06/09, 4:05 PM
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#1086
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Von Kaiser
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The better way of looking at unholy blight is to simply find the percentage of damage done by your death coil, and then multiply it by 1.2 (20%). Unholy blight simply adds 20% of every death coil as a DoT over 9 seconds. However much or little it ticks for depends on how many times your DCs will roll over to the next unholy blight, etc...; but the actual tick number is irrelevant. The one talent point in UB is simply a ~20% damage extension on your Death Coil.
Actually, as Consider has pointed out below me, UB is slightly less than 20% due to partial resists. If, for example, your initial death coil is partially resisted, only the unresisted portion will go through to become the UB DoT. The actual DoT itself can also be resisted, leading to a possibility of the damage to be 'double' resisted. Regardless, UB is approximately a 20% damage increase on your death coil.
Last edited by Alyse : 08/06/09 at 4:23 PM.
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08/06/09, 4:06 PM
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#1087
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King Hippo
Draenei Death Knight
Dragonblight
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UB is just a flat +20% (actually like 19.5% thanks to partial resists, but regardless) damage to your Death Coil. It doesn't matter if you DC every 9 seconds so the dot never falls off or you DC every 11 seconds so the dot always falls off.
How it works:
0 Seconds - Death Coil hits for 5000
1 Second - UB ticks for 100
2 Seconds - UB ticks for 100
3 Seconds - UB ticks for 100
4 Seconds - UB ticks for 100
4.5 Seconds - Death Coil hits for 5000
5 Seconds - UB Ticks for 160
6 Seconds - UB Ticks for 160
7 Seconds - UB Ticks for 160
8 Seconds - UB Ticks for 160
9 Seconds - UB Ticks for 160
10 Seconds - UB Ticks for 160
11 Seconds - UB Ticks for 160
12 Seconds - UB Ticks for 160
13 Seconds - UB Ticks for 160
14 Seconds - UB Ticks for 160 and falls off.
You see, when Unholy Blight is already on the mob it will calculate how much damage is 'left' in the dot (in this case, 600, since it would have done a total damage of 1000 and 400 had already been dealt), add to that how much damage the new dot would deal (in this case, 1000), and take that total damage (1600) and deal it over ten seconds.
~4% dps for one talent point is pretty good, really, even if you don't see these amazing numbers because of it. Besides, it's actually almost the same exact dps the old Unholy Blight did on a single target when you account for the fact that you get an extra Death Coil every 20 seconds since you aren't spending 40 RP to refresh UB. It does, of course, fall behind on AoE, but such was the intention, and is rather understandable (even though UB isn't/wasn't what made our AoE so strong).
[Edit]: Also, just a quick note, but UB will not tick "overkill" - similar to Necrosis, meaning dummy testing is inaccurate (well, more inaccurate).
Last edited by Consider : 08/06/09 at 4:17 PM.
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08/06/09, 4:18 PM
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#1088
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Von Kaiser
Human Death Knight
Garona
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Originally Posted by amalgam
Long-time reader, few-time poster here. I read mostly through DK and Rogue stuff now and, needless to say, I was shocked about SS falling to the wayside. Really great work you have all done here.
Just a quick couple of questions:
Why is Necrosis valued over Desolation in regards to the new Oblit spec? Necrosis was not better than 3.1's Desecration 5% buff (numbers I remember seeing were Necrosis at 3.5-4% for 5 pts versus Desecration's effective 4-4.5% for the same 5 points). Is the new value on Necrosis being placed on the fact that Necrosis passively benefits from ArP, which Unholy finally wants a fairly substantial amount of due to the Oblit desirability?
I still have a gut feeling that even post-Oblit ArP desires, Desolation still wins out in a raid environment, especially considering our other percentage talents present in the spec: Black Ice, Impurity, Ebon Plaguebriner, Rage of Rivendare and Bone Shield.
Also. what's the new value being placed on Wandering Plague? Is it worth it anymore to maintain or is it feasible to give it up to get, say, IUP and GF?
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In the sims I ran I got higher numbers across the board for everything with 5/5 Desolation over 5/5 Necrosis BUT there were some test when I ran them for higher hour counts that necrosis came out on top. The sims I ran that had Desolation on top was for 7 day - 168 hour sims.
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08/06/09, 4:30 PM
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#1089
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Von Kaiser
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Desolation Vs. Necrosis
Originally Posted by Nastrodamus
In the sims I ran I got higher numbers across the board for everything with 5/5 Desolation over 5/5 Necrosis BUT there were some test when I ran them for higher hour counts that necrosis came out on top. The sims I ran that had Desolation on top was for 7 day - 168 hour sims.
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Consider nicely summarized the math behind Necrosis vs. Desolation here, The DPS difference between the two is almost negligible. Considering that you need 3 GCDs to have desolation active, any fights in which there is a lapse in DPS uptime (eg. Yogg Brain Room, Mimiron), Necrosis will have a slight advantage compared to desolation, which makes the already negligible DPS difference even more so. As stated, it's really more of a personal preference thing.
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08/06/09, 5:06 PM
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#1090
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Glass Joe
Blood Elf Death Knight
Mug'thol
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Exact rotation?
So what is the optimal rotation for 0-17-54? I've seen a few different ones posted here. I only did 6k dps on hard mode XT last night and I'm guessing it's because I did the rotation slightly wrong. Based on what I'm reading here there is a lot of reapplication of diseases before they are done.
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08/06/09, 5:11 PM
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#1091
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Glass Joe
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rotation was posted earlier
Originally Posted by Consider
Yes, the same rotation - PS IT BS BS OB Horn DC // OB DC OB DC OB DC (That horn is necessary to get off four DCs. If you are getting RP from AMS/Disc Priest/Resto druid, you can drop it if you are getting enough for another whole DC, but otherwise, you have the free GCD, so you may as well use it to produce RP and get off the extra DC).
The glyphs are Ghoul, Obliterate, and Dark Death.
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08/06/09, 6:30 PM
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#1092
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Glass Joe
Draenei Death Knight
Ysera
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Originally Posted by DoomMugthol
So what is the optimal rotation for 0-17-54? I've seen a few different ones posted here. I only did 6k dps on hard mode XT last night and I'm guessing it's because I did the rotation slightly wrong. Based on what I'm reading here there is a lot of reapplication of diseases before they are done.
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I actually had a similar result when we hit XT last night. Was excited to try the spec that is supposed to be better than the SS spec and ended up doing 1k less damage than I normally do. Was wondering if I was doing the wrong rotation or if maybe the spec is not as good as we originally thought.
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08/06/09, 7:26 PM
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#1093
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Glass Joe
Human Death Knight
Azgalor
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I see a lot about the 0/17/54 build and am actually working on getting it right still, but while i read more i was wondering if anyone is using a good unholy AoE spec I used to be big about overall damage done and having decent dps at the same time, but was not sure how these types of specs may have changed since SS isnt as powerful or just over all patch changes,?! Hopefully that makes sense
thanks
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08/06/09, 7:34 PM
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#1094
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Von Kaiser
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0/17/54
I have always been a fan of the unholy specs (play style ect). I am going to give it a try. I did notice that none had ghoul frenzy. I take it the boost to pet dps is just too little compared to other talents say 1 point out of desolation.
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08/06/09, 7:48 PM
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#1095
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King Hippo
Draenei Death Knight
Dragonblight
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To those saying they've lost dps with that spec, post parses or something. Otherwise it's just anecdotal tidbits which may or may not be true, but don't actually show anything. Besides, if you post a parse, others can point out what you did wrong.
Mathmatically speaking though, 3.2 0/17/54 Obliterate > 3.1 0/10/61 Scourge Strike. Simulations and theorycrafting both support this. If you aren't seeing that in your personal performance, it is most likely something you are doing incorrectly (I don't mean that meanly, just as a matter of fact).
Originally Posted by j_wa11ace
I see a lot about the 0/17/54 build and am actually working on getting it right still, but while i read more i was wondering if anyone is using a good unholy AoE spec I used to be big about overall damage done and having decent dps at the same time, but was not sure how these types of specs may have changed since SS isnt as powerful or just over all patch changes,?! Hopefully that makes sense
thanks
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0/17/54 already has all of the Unholy aoe-relevant talents. Impurity, Black Ice, Morbidity, Rage of Rivendare, Desolation, Bone Shield, Wandering Plague, etc... it's all there. The only other talents which would affect your AoE are deep in Blood or Frost, and thus unreachable. The sole exception is Bladed Armor - but you can't get that without sacrificing from Black Ice, so it's close to a wash anyways.
Originally Posted by Evyle
I have always been a fan of the unholy specs (play style ect). I am going to give it a try. I did notice that none had ghoul frenzy. I take it the boost to pet dps is just too little compared to other talents say 1 point out of desolation.
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From a pure dps perspective, yes, Ghoul Frenzy is not worth it. That said, it isn't a bad talent to spec in to. If you find your pet dying, then GF becomes invaluable due to the heal. If that's not the case, however, then yeah, don't bother.
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