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LinkBack (311) | Thread Tools |
04/22/09, 12:14 PM
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#2 |
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Glass Joe
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Your blood t8 set is significantly below expertise cap. I've been playing with some gearlists myself and its very hard to maintain expertise or hit cap if you take 4p t8. You'll have to sacrifice 1 or 2 ArP items to get to the expertise cap, this is why i personally prefer max 2p t8 filled up with ArP items.
Questions is how much ArP do you need so you don't lose the dps gain from 4p t8. |
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04/22/09, 12:50 PM
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#3 |
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Glass Joe
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According to the 3.1 DPS thread Darkside started, even frost seems to be using FC instead of RI to generate top DPS.
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04/22/09, 1:01 PM
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#4 |
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Glass Joe
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Glad to see this thread, very helpful. I would suggest giving the top 5, or so, in each slot. This helps people pick upgrades when it's not the BiS. Something similar was done on DK.info but was specific to UH (DPS Death Knight Best Raiding Gear Available).
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04/22/09, 1:08 PM
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#5 | |
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Glass Joe
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The problem with several options is that it wont include calculations for hit and expertise. I prefer a BIS item list like this. To the author: Frost builds will definatly also want the new Sigil! |
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04/22/09, 2:08 PM
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#7 | |
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Mike Tyson
Korgoth
Blood Elf Death Knight
No WoW Account (EU)
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As for whether or not this would be better off in the spec thread OPs, it's kinda moot because it's not there currently nor was it in the previous versions of those threads to my knowledge. I don't see any harm with having a separate thread for it for all specs, really. To everyone else: I've taken on board your comments and will look at amending things accordingly when I get a sec. A spreadsheet like Shandaras' hunter one would be great for this really so that we could properly test sets. Who wants to volunteer?  |
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04/22/09, 3:26 PM
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#8 | |
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Von Kaiser
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As methods stated in the Blood DPS thread here, the 4pc for Blood is roughly a 1% DPS overall increase.
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04/22/09, 4:51 PM
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#9 |
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Glass Joe
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Plate DPS stats notwithstanding I think I prefer [Drape of the Faceless General] over Drakerider. Wish DKs got the agi:crit ratio Paladins did.
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04/22/09, 6:03 PM
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#10 |
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Glass Joe
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is the math correct for Insurmountable Fervor? I though Favor of the Dragon Queen + JC Gem is BiS.
1,43 haste vs 25,3Ap, 0,56Crit and 2,52ArP Last edited by DunZi : 04/22/09 at 6:09 PM. |
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04/22/09, 7:12 PM
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#11 |
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Glass Joe
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Earthshaper > voldrethar ? (with blood specifically)
I'm a dwarf so really wanted earhtshaper to be better, but I can't understand how it is? |
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04/22/09, 7:28 PM
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#12 |
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Glass Joe
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I thinking something like this would be better for 12/0/59 and 0/10/61
Replacing... [Betrayer of Humanity] with [Voldrethar, Dark Blade of Oblivion] [Belt of the Singing Blade] with [Belt of Colossal Rage] (Those are just placeholders since CharDev.org doesn't have those items in their database yet.) I know people are saying T7.5 is going to be better then T8.5 but I think when you have all BiS it won't be. Last edited by Tenaka : 04/22/09 at 11:48 PM. |
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04/22/09, 7:49 PM
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#13 | |
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Von Kaiser
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So is 15 str > 0.2 speed slower, or is it the other way around? Basically take whatever one you end up with. |
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04/22/09, 8:08 PM
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#14 |
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Piston Honda
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You should make a seperate section for Frost. While they don't have to stack Arp like Blood, they don't have to avoid it like Unholy. It's just a good stat.
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04/23/09, 12:05 AM
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#16 | |
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Glass Joe
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04/23/09, 5:17 AM
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#17 |
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Mike Tyson
Korgoth
Blood Elf Death Knight
No WoW Account (EU)
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Yeah the alternatives you guys listed there are ilevel 239 hard mode drops which means that, for now, I won't add them into the list. Obviously Voldrethar is BiS right now though, if only for its higher DPS. But if no one has realistic access to it and there's a good chance other, better ilevel 239 weapons are yet to be found, listing it seems kinda pointless at this point.
Also, 'Best in Slot' isn't necessarily what the thread is out to achieve, since individually the pieces mean little if, once you have them all, you are way over or under the hit/expertise softcaps. Really it's about finding an optimal overall gear set as opposed to just collecting all the 'best' individual pieces. I'll do a bit more work on the OP throughout the day looking at each spec's stat weights, and I'll edit in the stats for each set too. |
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04/23/09, 5:51 AM
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#18 |
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Von Kaiser
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Great thread, please keep this updated as it will eliminate a ton of commonly/frequently asked questions that clutter up other threads. Also, please add the hardmode items in asap, many guilds are doing them this week and many more will be next week.
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04/23/09, 5:54 AM
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#19 |
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Don Flamenco
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For your suggested Blood equipment, if you sub in Bladebearer's Signet, enchant the Gloves with 20 to hit, and also pop in one of the purple gems needed to activate Chaotic Skyflare Diamond (unless you have it on the Shoulders), you can reach both the hit cap and exp soft cap (the socket bonus for the gloves or shoulders pushes you up to the hit cap). That would free you up to use any weapon without hit or exp on them (like Rune Edge, or Lotrafen) and means you could later equip Voldrethar without having to shuffle equipment around.
You can also swap in Frozen Might of Hodir later and just switch a red gem into the gloves and put the purple gem into Frozen Might. edit: norg pointed out in another thread that I made an error with counting the expertise. Swapping out Girdle of Embers for Belt of the Titans will compensate for the error, and grants you an extra two slots to make up for the Str lost on the item itself. Last edited by Kaejin : 04/24/09 at 9:50 AM. |
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04/23/09, 1:05 PM
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#20 |
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Von Kaiser
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Optimization Utility
I've been working on a fairly simple program that uses stat weights with several other parameters to calculate the best in slot combination for a given set of gear. It's written in c++ and is fairly naive, so it suffers from the problem of speed of execution. However, the upside is that the results are guaranteed to be accurate and completely best in slot (for the given parameters) when it finishes running. That said, I'd be more than glad to post a compiled version (or source) of this after a few modifications to the program to make it appropriate to the task at hand. The specifics of calculation are:
Pre Calculation After reading items, gems, and enchants from comma separated files, the program attempts to reduce the number of options being considered by eliminating all items that are strictly inferior to others in the same slot. That is to say, Any item with a lower value (calculated from item weights) excluding hit and expertise and smaller values of hit / expertise is eliminated from the potential item pool. The reasoning for this is sound, if confusing. Hit and expertise have varied values based on caps, meaning that you cannot simply equip the best overall items and get the best set. This is the entire purpose for this utility. However, if you have an item with for example 100 points of non-hit, non-expertise stats and 0 hit or expertise, it will be inferior in all potential gear sets to an item with 110 points of non-hit, non-expertise stats and 0 or more hit and / or expertise. The same situation applies for enchants. This is mostly relevant for the Icewalker enchant, since using it can affect the balance of hit on the rest of your gear, meaning it has a dynamic value as your gearset changes. Gearest Calculations The program naively iterates through all possible gear sets. When a gearset is chosen, the program checks several constraints (Did I meet any specified set bonus requirements? Do I have at least two gem slots? Am I above the specified minimums for specific stats?) From this point it's a simple weighted stat system to determine relative value of a given set. The program tracks the top several sets and spits it out at the end of execution. Assumptions I make several key assumptions here, but I'm fairly certain that no one will argue with them. They can actually be overcome quite nicely, but it exponentially (read: trillions of combinations) increases the complexity of the run. I assume Chaotic Skyflare is the desired meta. I assume every slot will be gemmed with a Bold Scarlet Ruby - replacing two gems with the Sovereign cut is left as an exercise for the player. Now, please realize that this isn't the most graceful way of doing this, and I know it. Item lists have to be created by hand and turned into *.csv files. Right now output is simply to the terminal, but it's manageable. I've been planning to run this thing once I know all the hard mode loot (for a truly 'optimal') setup, but it would be quite easy to simply limit it to normal mode iLevel loot. If people are interested I'll post it later today to mess around with. No promises on how to compile / run it. I've fairly limited knowledge in that department. Regardless, I hope that helps our quest for best in slot gear for our various specs and tiers. I know I never like not knowing with absolute certainty what our best in slot is, which is why I made this utility. |
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04/23/09, 9:26 PM
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#21 |
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Von Kaiser
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Wouldn't Sabatons of Sudden Reprisal be better then Melancholy Sabatons?
I was under the impression that for unholy dps haste was rated higher then armor pen. Melancholy = 88 str 54 crit 84 armor pen Reprisal = 83 str (with 16 str gem) 66 crit and 43 haste Seems like -5 str but + 12 crit + haste being valued more would be better then melancholy? Yes/no? |
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04/23/09, 10:19 PM
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#22 |
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Glass Joe
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I am currently 51/2/18 spec with 4pc T7.5 and I've recently received several pieces of loot from Ulduar. I was considering on breaking my set bonus, but I am not entirely sure how much the 4pc bonus is for blood DKs. I assumed it wasn't nearly as valuable as it is for Unholy, but am not sure if the trade off for more stats over a set bonus is worth it. Any thoughts on the value of 4pc T7 bonus?
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04/24/09, 6:11 AM
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#23 |
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Mike Tyson
Korgoth
Blood Elf Death Knight
No WoW Account (EU)
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Zerack: Sounds interesting -- I look forward to seeing it.
Kaejin: Done. Seems like a better set overall than the one I had initially. As you quite rightly point out, the ability to pick up Voldrethar without having to shuffle other gear around is quite useful. Although of course other ilevel 239 pieces will probably necessitate gear shuffling anyway, which is the main reason why I'm not including any until they're pretty much all discovered. As I said before, 'Best in Slot' is misleading in a way and we're actually after an overall set. A great team rather than a collection of talented individuals, so to speak. Infiniteone: Since the 3.1 buffs to haste you are probably right, at least for Unholy and perhaps Frost. I'll change it. Kalian: I know I've seen some discussion on this in the Blood thread, mostly by Methods. Might be worth searching his posts there as I don't know the answer off the top of my head I'm afraid. |
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04/24/09, 9:44 AM
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#24 | |
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Von Kaiser
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04/24/09, 1:25 PM
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#25 | |
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Glass Joe
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