Optimal gearing: the BiS thread - updated for 3.3 - Page 18

jones4569 · 05/27/09, 5:30 PM

One thing I would like to point out of people havent said this already. Frost Strike or SS are effected by SPELL hit. Being so you should really make sure you are getting to the spell hit cap as best as possible ( all depending on your spec + class debuffs ).

For me, I need 289 hit in order to get the spell hit cap ( thats with virulence + 3% hit from a spriest or boomkin ). If you are horde and play frost.

EDIT: got the exact hit number

Kyzara · 05/27/09, 5:47 PM

Originally Posted by jones4569

One thing I would like to point out of people havent said this already. Frost Strike or SS are effected by SPELL hit. Being so you should really make sure you are getting to the spell hit cap as best as possible ( all depending on your spec + class debuffs ).

For me, I need 291 hit ( I think, + or - a few hit rating ) in order to get the spell hit cap ( thats with virulence + 3% hit from a spriest or boomkin ). If you are horde and play frost, getting this hit cap is really important when fighting bosses ( being under the spell hit cap your FS will end up seeing partial resists consistantly ).

I'm fairly confident that SS and Frost Strike are based off the melee hit cap. I sit at 265 hit and have never seen a miss on any wws report of mine. As far as I've read on this forum and on many other forums both abilities are considered melee strikes when considering hit ratings and thus follow the 8% hit cap rule. Have you seen misses on wws reports or recount at the melee hit cap or something to prove this wrong?

I just went through my wws report from last night where I had 265 hit and I can say for sure I did not have a single miss except on Archavon which was from the cloud debuff he gives.

Wow Web Stats

So at least this is not correct for Frost Strike.

jones4569 · 05/27/09, 5:52 PM

Originally Posted by Kyzara

I'm fairly confident that SS and Frost Strike are based off the melee Hit cap. I sit at 265 hit and have never seen a miss on any wws report of mine.

As far as I've read on this forum and on many other forums both abilities are considered melee strikes as far as hit ratings are concerned and thus follow the 8% hit cap rule. Have you seen misses on wws reports or recount at the melee hit cap or something to prove this wrong?

I just went through my wws report from last night where I had 265 hit and I can say for sure I did not have a single miss except on Archavon which was from the cloud debuff he gives.

Wow Web Stats

So at least this is not correct for Frost Strike.

Yeah I thought so too, but you aren't thinking like a caster like I was ( I sadly never knew being under the spell hit cap as a caster caused bosses to partly resist your spells ). Spell hit works differently from melee hit, if you are over the melee hit cap you wont miss a FS but if you are under the spell hit cap then you will see partly resisted FS attacks consistantly in a boss fight. Partial resists can take a big chunk of damage throughout a fight, and it really sucks.

Example: Frost Strike crits [BOSS] for 10004 ( 500 resisted ).

So my point is even though you are at the melee hit cap, you are still hurting your DPS being under the spell hit cap if you play frost with partial resists ( other things partly resist to, but FS is a big chunk of your DPS ).

If you want to read more about spell hit, Spell hit - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft

Invisus · 05/27/09, 6:00 PM

Originally Posted by jones4569

Yeah I thought so too, but you aren't thinking like a caster like I was ( I sadly never knew being under the spell hit cap as a caster caused bosses to partly resist your spells ). Spell hit works differently from melee hit, if you are over the melee hit cap you wont miss a FS but if you are under the spell hit cap then you will see partly resisted FS attacks consistantly in a boss fight. Partial resists can take a big chunk of damage throughout a fight, and it really sucks.

Example: Frost Strike crits [BOSS] for 10004 ( 500 resisted ).

So my point is even though you are at the melee hit cap, you are still hurting your DPS being under the spell hit cap if you play frost with partial resists ( other things partly resist to, but FS is a big chunk of your DPS ).

If you want to read more about spell hit, Spell hit - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft

Within the article is a statement specifically pertaining to your dilemma.

Note: Level-based resistance (not to be confused with level-based miss) can play a factor in total resists. For every level that a mob has over the player, there is 8 resist (believed; the exact number may be higher) added. For boss fights, this means there is 15-24 resistance added. This extra resistance means there will be partial resists on non-binary spells from the added resistance. However, this resistance has been shown to not apply to binary spells at all.

This level based resistance cannot be reduced by any means, not even Spell Penetration.

Unless you have any data from people that shows them at your proposed cap and that their partial resists are removed at that point then this is your answer.

EDIT: Placed actual quotes within the quote. Redundancy sucks.

jones4569 · 05/27/09, 6:22 PM

I'll post some later.

mosse · 05/27/09, 6:52 PM

Originally Posted by jones4569

Yeah I thought so too, but you aren't thinking like a caster like I was ( I sadly never knew being under the spell hit cap as a caster caused bosses to partly resist your spells ). Spell hit works differently from melee hit, if you are over the melee hit cap you wont miss a FS but if you are under the spell hit cap then you will see partly resisted FS attacks consistantly in a boss fight. Partial resists can take a big chunk of damage throughout a fight, and it really sucks.

Example: Frost Strike crits [BOSS] for 10004 ( 500 resisted ).

So my point is even though you are at the melee hit cap, you are still hurting your DPS being under the spell hit cap if you play frost with partial resists ( other things partly resist to, but FS is a big chunk of your DPS ).

If you want to read more about spell hit, Spell hit - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft

Taken from the DW Unholy Thread

4) What determines partial resists?

Answer: Originally Posted by Zyrm
As an additional note, what is *actually* responsible for partial resists on bosses is weapon skill. For example, if you tried to scourge strike a level 80 mob with 1 weapon skill, aside from parries/dodges, the strikes you DID land would be mitigated in half (which is actually the most a SS can resist, it will always hit for at least half damage)... until you're weapon skill was at or near max. Since Raid bosses count as your level +3, and there is currently no way to raise weapon skill beside the level max, you will always see partial resists in raids.

Another side note, when you see a strike that says, say "Your SS hits X for 4000 (200 resisted)", you wouldn't have originally done 4200 damage, but actually quite a bit more. The (X resisted) is actually before modifiers/buffs/talents/crits, so in reality, if half a strike was resisted, you might actually see something like "Your SS hits for 2.5k (1.9k resisted)". Just some food for thought. I can't tell you how many time's I've seen 5500(900 resisted) when my SS crits that don't resist always break 8k.

jones4569 · 05/27/09, 7:23 PM

Yeah after some more reading you are correct, damn my newbie self with being a melee class for 4 years :[

Giske · 05/28/09, 11:12 AM

The current hit/exp capped set for Blood has a total of 32.47 expertise which seems a bit overkill. I'm not sure which of the expertise items you didnt mean to carry over, but you should take another look at it.

norg · 05/28/09, 11:44 AM

Yeah I'm tweaking the Blood section atm so some of it might be a bit weird. I think the set in question should actually have 28 expertise IIRC.

I think I'm going to add more sets to the tables too so that each setup (normal; pre-Heroic hard mode; hit/exp capped) has a Horde version and an Alliance version.

Wowzers · 05/28/09, 7:50 PM

A new plate belt just dropped from 10-man Algalon to consider for BIS:

Overall, a -11 str, -47 hit, -24 crit, +56 exp from Colossal Rage. There is also a red socket in place of a blue socket which will come in handy once JC gems are no longer pristmatic.

yek366 · 05/29/09, 8:38 AM

Those pants are definitely nice. For blood, you can swap Girdle of Embers for those, and then swap Sif's Promise for strength of the automaton and still get a solid amount of armor pen, more strength, and still stay right at the expertise cap.

Unholy and frost would be wise to use these too if you want to stay close to expertise capped through T8.5 chest, Bladebearer's Signet and this. It is fairly easy to get hit capped other places if you drop the Belt of Colossal Rage. Also like you said it is a red socket over blue. With JC's possibly leaning towards Eternal Earthsiege Diamond + Siren's Tear, this is a strong candidate for using that combo.

DocDrdragon · 05/30/09, 12:44 PM

Ok for blood set , since new armor pen cap at 100% and it's hot fixed like a week ago. Our cap is at 90% with 10% from talents. Sunder armor and FF is not included in this cap because they add on top of 100% cap. According to warrior forums 443 armor pen is cap if you are using mjolnir runestone. Anything more will be wasted when the trinket procs. Now Do we wanna form a set around a trinket? or we want to try to get close to 1k armor pen from gear.

Edit: Well according to my gear when I put on 75% passive arp without the trinket I am better off with another trinket.

Tarokun · 05/30/09, 3:45 PM

would the new JC gem changes effect the BiS?

AtheistGod · 05/30/09, 4:16 PM

When you pass the point at which the trinket will put you to 100%, ArP can be considered as 5/6 of normal effectiveness, since assuming you get 1 proc of the trinket every minute you will have about 16% uptime.

Bonecaller · 05/30/09, 4:27 PM

Originally Posted by DocDrdragon

Ok for blood set , since new armor pen cap at 100% and it's hot fixed like a week ago. Our cap is at 90% with 10% from talents. Sunder armor and FF is not included in this cap because they add on top of 100% cap. According to warrior forums 443 armor pen is cap if you are using mjolnir runestone. Anything more will be wasted when the trinket procs. Now Do we wanna form a set around a trinket? or we want to try to get close to 1k armor pen from gear.

Edit: Well according to my gear when I put on 75% passive arp without the trinket I am better off with another trinket.

Armor Penetration still is our best stat after Hit/Expertise and of course strength. So you will still want to maximize it, the trinket doesnt have by far 100% uptime.

I definitely would reconsider taking another trinket.