Optimal gearing: the BiS thread - updated for 3.3 - Page 25

mahal · 09/18/09, 4:54 PM

I've been working on a "Frost BiS Set 2" tuned for Orcs. Would welcome any feedback or suggestions.

Profiler - Wowhead

Vajrus · 09/21/09, 11:09 PM

I ran my calculations(Zerack's DK gear optimzer) yesterday to check the chests for blood DK and found out that Armor of Shifting Shadows (Heroic) is better than Titanium Razorplate
Anyone else got same results and does that mean its better(does Zerack's optimazer calculate armor into AP etc?)

zagor · 09/22/09, 4:24 AM

When I last used the optimiser stat values looked somewhat old to me. This is what i got with 1000h simulation for my arp-heavy gear.
Even not counting armor->ap or sockets Titanium Razorplate is better.

EP:50 | AttackPower | 100
EP:50 | Strength | 280
EP:50 | Agility | 135
EP:50 | CritRating | 196
EP:50 | HasteRating | 174
EP:50 | ArmorPenetrationRating | 322
EP:50 | ExpertiseRating | 293
EP:50 | BeforeMeleeHitCap<8% | 406
EP:50 | AfterMeleeHitCap | 68

Ghrave · 09/22/09, 4:32 AM

Edit.

Obelisk · 09/23/09, 8:22 AM

Onyxia is out now an brings us new loot.

I'm wondering if the Frostforged Helm displaces the Faceplate of Thunderous Rampage for blood.

It has more Strenght, little less ArP and hit instead of crit.

Buggery · 09/23/09, 8:51 AM

Originally Posted by Obelisk

Onyxia is out now an brings us new loot.

I'm wondering if the Frostforged Helm displaces the Faceplate of Thunderous Rampage for blood.

It has more Strenght, little less ArP and hit instead of crit.

I'd wAger it's going to replace it only if you're under hit cap. Don't want to break a 4pc set bonus for it either if that's an issue. It also has a blue socket. Always take what's the best upgrade for you at the moment. I'm still not sure what the paperdoll ARpen cap should be but as blood I'd figure yould want more str so long as you're arpen is inline. That blue socket also kind of sucks if youve got a nightmare tear elsewhere. If not it's no prob.

Otherwise it looks like a really nice piece.

Obelisk · 09/23/09, 9:10 AM

Originally Posted by Buggery

I'd wAger it's going to replace it only if you're under hit cap. Don't want to break a 4pc set bonus for it either if that's an issue. It also has a blue socket. Always take what's the best upgrade for you at the moment. I'm still not sure what the paperdoll ARpen cap should be but as blood I'd figure yould want more str so long as you're arpen is inline. That blue socket also kind of sucks if youve got a nightmare tear elsewhere. If not it's no prob.

Otherwise it looks like a really nice piece.

None of those is a Setitem, so you don't break anything.
Also, Onyxias Helm makes it unnecessary to Gem hit, and the blue socket doesn't matter, just put a 20 Str gem in it.

EDIT: I'm referring to the first item composition for blood, forgot to mention it.

EDIT2: Now I compared it. If we gem Crit + str instead of hit + str, we gain 14 str from the helm ans lose 14 crit and 6 arp.
But with the actual composition it's just ~7,77% hit, with the one from Onyxia it's 8,14%

On the one hand 14 str and hitcap, on the other hand 14 crit 6 arp and under hitcap.

Fearlezz · 09/23/09, 9:17 AM

Originally Posted by zagor

When I last used the optimiser stat values looked somewhat old to me. This is what i got with 1000h simulation for my arp-heavy gear.
Even not counting armor->ap or sockets Titanium Razorplate is better.

EP:50 | AttackPower | 100
EP:50 | Strength | 280
EP:50 | Agility | 135
EP:50 | CritRating | 196
EP:50 | HasteRating | 174
EP:50 | ArmorPenetrationRating | 322
EP:50 | ExpertiseRating | 293
EP:50 | BeforeMeleeHitCap<8% | 406
EP:50 | AfterMeleeHitCap | 68

<?xml version="1.0"?>
<character>
<stat>
<Strength>1843</Strength>
<Agility>181</Agility>
<Intel>55</Intel>
<Armor>14605</Armor>
<AttackPower>215</AttackPower>
<HitRating>263</HitRating>
<CritRating>583</CritRating>
<HasteRating>274</HasteRating>
<ArmorPenetrationRating>414</ArmorPenetrationRating>
<ExpertiseRating>161</ExpertiseRating>
</stat>
<weapon>
<count>1</count>
<mainhand>
<dps>232.5</dps>
<speed>3.40</speed>
</mainhand>
<offhand>
<dps>0</dps>
<speed>0</speed>
</offhand>
</weapon>
<EP><base>50</base></EP>
<Set>
<T72PDPS>0</T72PDPS>
<T74PDPS>0</T74PDPS>
<T82PDPS>0</T82PDPS>
<T84PDPS>0</T84PDPS>
<T92PDPS>1</T92PDPS>
<T94PDPS>0</T94PDPS>
<T72PTNK>0</T72PTNK>
<T74PTNK>0</T74PTNK>
<T82PTNK>0</T82PTNK>
<T84PTNK>0</T84PTNK>
<T92PTNK>0</T92PTNK>
<T94PTNK>0</T94PTNK>
</Set>
<ChaoticSkyflareDiamond>1</ChaoticSkyflareDiamond>
<trinket>
<MjolnirRunestone>0</MjolnirRunestone>
<GrimToll>0</GrimToll>
<BitterAnguish>0</BitterAnguish>
<Mirror>0</Mirror>
<Greatness>1</Greatness>
<DCDeath>0</DCDeath>
<Victory>1</Victory>
<Necromantic>0</Necromantic>
<Bandit>0</Bandit>
<Pyrite>0</Pyrite>
<DarkMatter>0</DarkMatter>
<OldGod>0</OldGod>
<Comet>0</Comet>
<DeathChoice>0</DeathChoice>
</trinket>
</character>

Defyapathy · 09/23/09, 4:22 PM

Originally Posted by Obelisk

None of those is a Setitem, so you don't break anything.
Also, Onyxias Helm makes it unnecessary to Gem hit, and the blue socket doesn't matter, just put a 20 Str gem in it.

EDIT: I'm referring to the first item composition for blood, forgot to mention it.

EDIT2: Now I compared it. If we gem Crit + str instead of hit + str, we gain 14 str from the helm ans lose 14 crit and 6 arp.
But with the actual composition it's just ~7,77% hit, with the one from Onyxia it's 8,14%

On the one hand 14 str and hitcap, on the other hand 14 crit 6 arp and under hitcap.

Why would anyone at this level of gear have to even consider gemming for hit? I'm confused here, are people just retarded these days? I find myself more frequently having to LOSE hit than even consider gemming for it.

Yaly · 09/25/09, 6:17 AM

BiS for Unholy 16/0/55 (No Epidemic) should be something like this

Weapon - Justicebringer
Chest - Koltira's Battleplate of Triumph
Feet - Greaves of the Saronite Citadel
Hands - Koltira's Gauntlets of Triumph
Head - Koltira's Helmet of Triumph
Legs - Legguards of Ascension
Shoulder - Koltira's Shoulderplates of Triumph
Waist - Bloodbath Girdle
Wrist - Boneshatter Vambraces
Ring - Band of Callous Aggression
Ring - Band of the Violent Temperment
Trinket - Death´s Choice
Trinket - Death´s Choice

Gemming 5x Etched Ametrine will push me to caster cap without loosing at lot of strenght (Getting all those Socket Boni).

Could someone help me, how not to overcap the Expertise? (It´s about 32 or 270 Rating) Especially for an Orc like me

getting 37 Expertise...

I consider switching Plate vs. Leather:
Wrist - Bracers of Dark Determination (Don´t have to Gem for Hit anymore)
or
Waist - Belt of the Pitiless Killer (Slightly over the Hit Cap)

Does anyone have some better conlusions? I know switching one Item, will not totally fix that expertise problem.

Getting some real statweight numbers would help me a lot.

Farno · 09/25/09, 1:10 PM

Yarly, I think the only conclusions to be had are that there is a very limited number of item level 258 items in the game at the moment, such only as one belt, bracers boots etc. Whereas with item level 245 BiS items, there is a bigger choice of items, as there are crafted items plus drops from 25 man ToC and 10 man hard mode. I've run Zerek's Gear Optimiser with the stat weightings listed in the Unholy DPS thread and found that the gear you listed to be BiS (even though you forgot the neck and cloak, however there is only one real option for each of those). I found the leather items to be a DPS loss, even though you're miles over the expertise cap.

Considering only 4 258 set items drop per week for the very best guilds, I don't think people would be getting full 258 gear for a while yet. I would suggest going for the '245 BiS' which has [Faceplate of the Silver Champion] as the helm to use, along with 4 of the set pieces. I understand the need for a full BiS, but it's unlikely to be obtained quickly, and it's important to maximise your DPS for now.

Citgo · 09/25/09, 11:31 PM

Originally Posted by Yaly

Could someone help me, how not to overcap the Expertise? (It´s about 32 or 270 Rating) Especially for an Orc like me

getting 37 Expertise...

Does anyone have some better conlusions? I know switching one Item, will not totally fix that expertise problem

I'd consider Armbands of Bedlam in place of Boneshatter Vambraces if you're that much over exp cap.

Edit: Just did a quick profile of your set with some minor changes and came up with this -- Wowhead Profiler. The only things changed were Armbands of Bedlam in place of Boneshatter Vambraces and I added a cloak. It rides hitcap and it's still a small bit over exp cap, but it seems we really can't avoid it since ToGC gear is dripping with exp. I used yellow sockets that gave a 6 or 8 Str bonus to cap Hit (and after Hitcap, gemmed Str/Haste in yellows) and the rest were filled with Str. Obviously the str+hit/haste hybrid gems can be swapped dependent on your faction/possession of a Draenei.

Keep in mind that the above Profiler link is not equipped with Varian's Furor, because it is not in Wowhead's database yet. This cloak adds an extra 13 HR/25 STA/17 STR/11 CR as well as a red socket w/ a 4 STR bonus.

timmayz · 09/26/09, 8:26 AM

Originally Posted by Defyapathy

Why would anyone at this level of gear have to even consider gemming for hit? I'm confused here, are people just retarded these days? I find myself more frequently having to LOSE hit than even consider gemming for it.

After armory'ing you i noticed you still use several "hit pieces" from lower tier of gear, once you get max dps items you will notice your hit shrinking away. For instance you would lose 137 hit rating from simply replacing boots and both your rings with BIS items.

timmayz · 09/26/09, 8:27 AM

Originally Posted by Yaly

BiS for Unholy 16/0/55 (No Epidemic) should be something like this

Weapon - Justicebringer
Chest - Koltira's Battleplate of Triumph
Feet - Greaves of the Saronite Citadel
Hands - Koltira's Gauntlets of Triumph
Head - Koltira's Helmet of Triumph
Legs - Legguards of Ascension
Shoulder - Koltira's Shoulderplates of Triumph
Waist - Bloodbath Girdle
Wrist - Boneshatter Vambraces
Ring - Band of Callous Aggression
Ring - Band of the Violent Temperment
Trinket - Death´s Choice
Trinket - Death´s Choice

Gemming 5x Etched Ametrine will push me to caster cap without loosing at lot of strenght (Getting all those Socket Boni).

Could someone help me, how not to overcap the Expertise? (It´s about 32 or 270 Rating) Especially for an Orc like me

getting 37 Expertise...

I consider switching Plate vs. Leather:
Wrist - Bracers of Dark Determination (Don´t have to Gem for Hit anymore)
or
Waist - Belt of the Pitiless Killer (Slightly over the Hit Cap)

Does anyone have some better conlusions? I know switching one Item, will not totally fix that expertise problem.

Getting some real statweight numbers would help me a lot.

you don't have a cloak on your list

Yaly · 09/26/09, 4:08 PM

oh ur right its - Might of the Nerub

Necromir · 09/26/09, 4:43 PM

Originally Posted by Yaly

oh ur right its - Might of the Nerub

shouldn't [Cloak of the Triumphant Combatant] be BiS since the socket is red and would net more str?

Citgo · 09/27/09, 2:41 AM

Originally Posted by Necromir

shouldn't [Cloak of the Triumphant Combatant] be BiS since the socket is red and would net more str?

Varian's Furor would be BiS.

meekles · 10/09/09, 5:10 AM

I'm nearing the Horde frost 2 BiS set and I only noticed tonight that it only has 20 expertise. Is that not much of an issue? I'm currently a BE for stylistic purposes (huge mistake), but I plan to switch to Orc when I can.

The only thing I can find to knock it back up some would be [Boneshatter Vambraces] but I'm assuming the tradeoff isn't worth it. Just wanted to check this out before I fill the rest of my gear out. Thanks in advance.

• frmorrison · 10/09/09, 2:53 PM

Originally Posted by meekles

I'm nearing the Horde frost 2 BiS set and I only noticed tonight that it only has 20 expertise. Is that not much of an issue? I'm currently a BE for stylistic purposes (huge mistake), but I plan to switch to Orc when I can.

The only thing I can find to knock it back up some would be [Boneshatter Vambraces] but I'm assuming the tradeoff isn't worth it. Just wanted to check this out before I fill the rest of my gear out. Thanks in advance.

20 expertise isn't bad, since a lot of damage isn't affected by expertise. If a few dodges concerns you, swap out the bracers, however in the simulation that wasn't the "best".

Cyrreffs · 10/10/09, 11:24 AM

yo! wonder if its better to have 2 t9 and 2 t8.5 or 4 t8 and t.8.5 just for the t8 set bonus thingy as a blood dk.

Ghrave · 10/10/09, 1:20 PM

Originally Posted by Cyrreffs

yo! wonder if its better to have 2 t9 and 2 t8.5 or 4 t8 and t.8.5 just for the t8 set bonus thingy as a blood dk.

2pc t9 beats 4pc t8 hands down. The extra 200 STR effects all of your attacks, not to mention the fact that you gain more stats from the armor. The Blood DPS thread has shown that 4pc T8 benefits blood less than some of the other specs. I would not be overly concerned with breaking the t8 bonuses, and suggest that you shoot for the higher level gear when possible.

Evilbunny · 10/16/09, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by Ghrave

2pc t9 beats 4pc t8 hands down. The extra 200 STR effects all of your attacks, not to mention the fact that you gain more stats from the armor. The Blood DPS thread has shown that 4pc T8 benefits blood less than some of the other specs. I would not be overly concerned with breaking the t8 bonuses, and suggest that you shoot for the higher level gear when possible.

With all of the Str/AP procs, the 4pc t9 is pretty saucey with goDisease, especially on multi-target fights.

I've never used 4pc t8, but unless I am understanding it wrong, 4pc t8 would be a 4% damage buff for Heart Strike if both diseases were active. 4pc t9 would be more than (depending on meta, etc.) a [spell crit]% increase to disease damage.

I don't have any specific numbers on them, but my guess would be that as your AP and spell crit increase, 4pc t9 would start to distance itself pretty well.

teiglin · 10/16/09, 7:33 PM

The t9 4pc uses melee, not spell crit. But you are correct that there is strong synergy between 4t9 and glyph of disease rotations, which is especially nice with dark matter.

AtheistGod · 10/16/09, 9:43 PM

Originally Posted by Evilbunny

With all of the Str/AP procs, the 4pc t9 is pretty saucey with goDisease, especially on multi-target fights.

I've never used 4pc t8, but unless I am understanding it wrong, 4pc t8 would be a 4% damage buff for Heart Strike if both diseases were active. 4pc t9 would be more than (depending on meta, etc.) a [spell crit]% increase to disease damage.

I don't have any specific numbers on them, but my guess would be that as your AP and spell crit increase, 4pc t9 would start to distance itself pretty well.

t8 4pc is a 3.33% increase to about 30% of your damage, about 1% total. t9 4pc is about 30-40% damage increase to (about 6% with GoDD, up to 10% with GoD). While diseases don't play that large a role the difference between the respective damage increases make t9 4pc much much better.

t8 4pc was just really lackluster for Blood. I just realized that t8 4pc will be insane for the new SS. 20% damage buff to the shadow portion is at least 8.5% increase to the whole aiblity and could be more with how SS is double critting on the PTR. Not enough to be worth giving up t10 or even t9, but still good enough to hold onto over a few 245 pieces.

Arthas · 10/26/09, 12:23 PM

Nice upgrade. I'll give you my opinion though. I think the interface would be alot more efficient if the Item Selection section took up most of the screen since after you set up the weight stats and character info you only interact with the item section. I'm applying weight's to the interface based on what sections get used more. The item's section wins. Maybe you could make buttons that bring up the other sections interface and handle it that way. Leave the stat weights and items sections as the main screen, but maybe in plain text list the other settings in a small box somewhere.

**Meant to include this on Zerack's DK Gear Optimizer forum.