I have a question, ive been reading the forum for some time now, and i dont see an answer to this..
Currently, i have 100% ArP with trinket proc (im blood ofc), and im now thinking of going 4p T9.. What is best to do? Gem all str, skip the arp trinket or skip 4p and only go 2p?
I have a question, ive been reading the forum for some time now, and i dont see an answer to this..
Currently, i have 100% ArP with trinket proc (im blood ofc), and im now thinking of going 4p T9.. What is best to do? Gem all str, skip the arp trinket or skip 4p and only go 2p?
I'm not certain how you've missed it but nearly every thread on here states that you should be going 4pc T9 as soon as possible even if you have to pick up the Conquest items first, you should always gem for strength.
As you can see from the BiS lists on the first page, it's a higher DPS gain to pick up Deaths Verdict and the Greatness Card along with your 4pc T9.
I'm not certain how you've missed it but nearly every thread on here states that you should be going 4pc T9 as soon as possible even if you have to pick up the Conquest items first, you should always gem for strength.
As you can see from the BiS lists on the first page, it's a higher DPS gain to pick up Deaths Verdict and the Greatness Card along with your 4pc T9.
Well, according to several of the simulators and RAWR i lose dps dropping all my ArP. Thats why i found it weird, but i guess you're right
Well, according to several of the simulators and RAWR i lose dps dropping all my ArP. Thats why i found it weird, but i guess you're right
If you read the DPSDK thread, his model does not yet account for a proper 4pt9 bonus with crit diseases at a fully proc-buffed AP amount. It's on the 'to do' list. I assume this goes for some of the other simulators as well.
The mainpage isn't exactly too clear when it comes to gems.
Is it correctly assumed that Etched Ametrine is the gem of choice in all yellow sockets but ONLY if it provides a socket bonus?
-If yes, I suppose that would only be until hit-cap is eventually hit, putting crit+strength yellow gem in favor, correct?
Mainpage suggests Strength gems in all slots, and it seems to imply that yellow gems are only to provide meta bonus (which is no longer correct).
The mainpage isn't exactly too clear when it comes to gems.
Is it correctly assumed that Etched Ametrine is the gem of choice in all yellow sockets but ONLY if it provides a socket bonus?
-If yes, I suppose that would only be until hit-cap is eventually hit, putting crit+strength yellow gem in favor, correct?
Mainpage suggests Strength gems in all slots, and it seems to imply that yellow gems are only to provide meta bonus (which is no longer correct).
If you click on those handy-dandy images that are just below all the sets for each spec you will see what gems he places into gear to maximize everything...
If you click on those handy-dandy images that are just below all the sets for each spec you will see what gems he places into gear to maximize everything...
Those handy-dandy images seems to contradict the above explanation, so how would one know that the images are correct?
Those handy-dandy images seems to contradict the above explanation, so how would one know that the images are correct?
I haven't looked at any of this for a long time now, and won't be doing so until post-3.3, but IIRC you use the str/hit gems until the hit softcap (ideally in yellow slots, obviously), then once past the softcap, switch to pure str gems. I think it's that simple.
I haven't looked at any of this for a long time now, and won't be doing so until post-3.3, but IIRC you use the str/hit gems until the hit softcap (ideally in yellow slots, obviously), then once past the softcap, switch to pure str gems. I think it's that simple.
Actually doing a bit of quick math on it, assuming you're hit soft-capped with 4pc T9, any red slot you should obviously gem str. Any piece of gear that has a single yellow slot with a bonus of either 4 str, haste, or crit, it's more beneficial to gem crit/str for that bonus. Also any piece of gear that has a yellow and red socket (with a similar bonus), it's slightly better to gem a crit/str and str respectively. I may have done the math wrong on the latter of those two statements as it was nearing way-too-late in the morning, but it's relatively simple math with those nice little stat weights on the first page.
I also concluded that in a situation like [Chestplate of the Frostwolf Hero], it is better to gem straight str, and keep the [Nightmare Tear] for the next-highest socket bonus with two or less sockets (e.g. [Battlelord's Plate Boots]). If you'd like me to write it all out again I can, but really it's pretty simple and can be done by anyone that understands stat weights and the optimization it entails.
Edit: One thing I forgot to mention that will likely change this outcome -- this is using an Unholy build using the stat weights found in the Unholy DPS thread. Sorry!
Actually doing a bit of quick math on it, assuming you're hit soft-capped with 4pc T9, any red slot you should obviously gem str. Any piece of gear that has a single yellow slot with a bonus of either 4 str, haste, or crit, it's more beneficial to gem crit/str for that bonus. Also any piece of gear that has a yellow and red socket (with a similar bonus), it's slightly better to gem a crit/str and str respectively. I may have done the math wrong on the latter of those two statements as it was nearing way-too-late in the morning, but it's relatively simple math with those nice little stat weights on the first page.
I also concluded that in a situation like [Chestplate of the Frostwolf Hero], it is better to gem straight str, and keep the [Nightmare Tear] for the next-highest socket bonus with two or less sockets (e.g. [Battlelord's Plate Boots]). If you'd like me to write it all out again I can, but really it's pretty simple and can be done by anyone that understands stat weights and the optimization it entails.
Edit: One thing I forgot to mention that will likely change this outcome -- this is using an Unholy build using the stat weights found in the Unholy DPS thread. Sorry!
Obviously the front page was calculated using the Unholy spec listed at 3/13/55, which is much different than the spec currently utilized in the Unholy thread, along with different stat weights because of the different specs. This is probably optimized to the spec and gear being used on the front page.
If you look at the BiS Unholy gear in the actual unholy thread it is much different. You're comparing apples to oranges.
Obviously the front page was calculated using the Unholy spec listed at 3/13/55, which is much different than the spec currently utilized in the Unholy thread, along with different stat weights because of the different specs. This is probably optimized to the spec and gear being used on the front page.
If you look at the BiS Unholy gear in the actual unholy thread it is much different. You're comparing apples to oranges.
Problem being that 3/13/55 isn't as viable once you snag the 4pc, so in reality the oranges don't even exist, heh. I did note in my edit that I only calculated for unholy, which is assumed to be 1x/0/5x at this point in time (since the SS "buff").
I didn't notice right now,but i'm thinking on doing a BiS list for Unholy/Blood DPS assuming the gear obtainable currently in 3.2.2 from ulduar/toc and the stats weight/talents from 3.3.
I mean it's currently "useless" for us to drop the BiS gear for 3.2.2,especially in a season where all major guilds already completed the entire progress content.
It could be good to prepare ourselve with actual BiS gear that will reflect the changes coming next month.
The main changes from current 16/0/55 to 17/0/54 (speaking about unholy) switches the relevance of haste and armor penetration:
Attack Power 1.0 -> same?
Strength 3.05 -> same
Crit Rating w/ 4P T9 2.38 -> 2.31
Haste Rating 2.19 -> 1.53
Armor Penetration 1.37 -> 1.88
This will sure put actually on the top [Helm of Thunderous Rampage] instead of [Thassarian's Helmet of Triumph] and [Koltira's Legplates of Triumph] instead of [Legguards of Ascension].
But what about the rest?I feel that due to the lack of choice in ilvl 258 gear,there will be not that big changes..
About blood the stats doesnt seem to change so much,the biggest difference can be the less weight of crit assuming 4 t9,and maybe also assuming 2t9+2t10.
It's hard to say if arp will have more relevance in blood (in unholy does due to the change of talents and ss mechanics) that actually does,and note that we have 3/5 t10 with passive arp on it.
The mainpage isn't exactly too clear when it comes to gems.
Is it correctly assumed that Etched Ametrine is the gem of choice in all yellow sockets but ONLY if it provides a socket bonus?
-If yes, I suppose that would only be until hit-cap is eventually hit, putting crit+strength yellow gem in favor, correct?
Mainpage suggests Strength gems in all slots, and it seems to imply that yellow gems are only to provide meta bonus (which is no longer correct).
From a pure stat weighing point of view, difference for yellow gemming for unholy 4p is. 20 str vs 10 str 10 crit =20*3.05 -10*3.05-10*2.38=6.7
6.7/3.05=2.2
So for every socket bonus that gives 3 str or more PER yellow gem, gem 10 str 10 crit for unholy 4p.
Atleast thats the way I interpret it.
(Alliance screenshots all have the Horde item names, since the Optimizer only has Horde item names in its database and I'm not about to add the Alliance ones manually)
Some questions about trinkets: How much better is Deathbringer's Will than Death's Choice? What sort of information is available on Deathbringer's Will? I believe in the unholy thread someone mentioned that unholy DKs are limited to the Str, Haste, and Crit buffs. Is it determined by class, meaning we have no chance to get the other buffs it can proc? ICD? Duration? Etc...
Also, could the Tiny Abomination in a Jar theoretically be better than either at any point? Without knowing the proc rate, I imagine it would be difficult to come to a definite answer, but after finding the item on the armory database I've become a bit curious if it would prove to be any good, or at least good enough to substitute until either of the BiS trinkets.
Last edited by Kaejin : 12/11/09 at 5:47 PM.
Reason: syntax
Around 90 seconds ICD. The bad thing is: the proc is completely random. Get unlucky and you're stuck with sub-par stat. I'd rather take the 258 version of Death's Choice, at least I know what I get
The question: I just got a ToC 25 Trophy (T9 245 trade-in). Which piece of tier gear, to a UH DK, is the best to purchase in the long run? Which piece should I use the trophy on? I know I need to get 4pc so legs seems obvious - but is that the best choice in terms of using the trophy?
I'm thinking perhaps I should GM ticket my helm (just bought it for 50 badges) and get the T9 245 helm? I'm just wondering what is the "top piece of tier gear" to own. Otheriwse, I'm just going to use the trophy on the legs.
Thanks in advance! Searched the thread but nothing seemed to indicate this.
Should Death Knights go and save Frost Emblems for tier pieces or some other stuff, or just go for Shadows Edge? That is if they have extra characters on their account to provide farming of Primordial Saronite, since with 4 characters it should be done in a month, plus minus few extra days. That is of course with doing all possible way to get those emblems.
If you have GKP runs on your server you can buy Bryntroll which is about the same (or slightly ahead) of Shadow's Edge for probably 25-50% of the price of the 25 Primordial Saronites.
So I just got my hands in Deathbringers will and wanted to test it out. Now I dont know how far you guys are in the BiS frost set, but as i run a mac I can run your sims so I have to do testing in the old way.
I finished the fight against Saurfang with around 7,1k dps with Greatness equiped. I then joined a ToC pug and wanted to see what this new trink was all about.
Now I may have been unlucky with the procs, but I mostly saw arpen procs. Strenght procc's had some bad timing and I never saw the crit proc at all.
I hardly came above 5k dps, so this was a massive decrease in dps for me.
I need to test it again when i reach Saurfang again for the test to be fair, but it doesnt look good. Atleast not in my case
So you were seeing ArPen, Crit and Strength procs then? I've been trying to confirm conclusively which set of procs a Frost DK will get and so far you're my second data point.
You were most likely unlucky with procs. The only way to be certain would be to grab an addon like proculus or procodile and sit idle at a target dummy for an hour so, auto-attacking and recording your results.