Darkonte

If u have UB glyph
HB BS BS OB
OB IT IT IT BS(or IT)

The FS u have to put them inside the rotations according to the KM procs or before the RP get maxed.

 

fr86

Kinda hard to explain what I do,

I start the fight with PS/IT, oblit, BS, blood tap "bug" into ITx2, and using FS as needed (on KM is possible). I don't use PS after the opener, the purpose of using it at the start is to keep the runes as DbDuDf or bDuDfD. Makes it easier to keep the runes "ordered" for me, and creates a natural separation for using IT which makes it easier to use KM on FS. Also prevents u/f runes from finishing their cooldowns a few seconds apart.

 

Pahasetae

I nerves cannot handle the rotation of 6xIT spam rotation. I doubt Blizzard ever intended that this would happen with the glyph or anyone would "abuse" it this way

I tried and I honestly failed, my nerves cannot keep up with the rotation to be completely honest. So I changed to HB glyph and tried out the blood press, HB-OB-BS-BS -> OB-OB-OB(HB) rotation. Works so much better for me and I'm not that much behind the on the DPS of 6x IT rotation, I can notice I cannot pull out as much but I rather enjoy my playing.

Parse from last night:
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Yeah our healers were bit sleepy on iron council and that didn't go so well. No Hard Modes included since I we haven't downed Yogg yet.

 

Higinia

For the 6xIT spec, what is the rotation? Im seeing on the previous frost dk thread about 3 different ones. Which one works best in sustaining max dps?

 

jokinawa

I am pretty sure the ITx6 is:

OB - OB - BS - BS - Dump
IT(DUMP) - IT(DUMP) - IT(DUMP) - IT(DUMP) - IT(DUMP) - IT(DUMP)

Where on the IT part you dump FS on KM processes or before you max your RP.

 

PristineChaos

Tried out 20/51 this week and had positive results just like others have been reporting.

5976dps on Ignis (Using regular kiting strat) Wow Web Stats

Note: I used the HB glyph instead of the OB glyph, which would bump up single target dps slightly as well.

I had been blood for a few weeks now and, strangely enough, I did better on every encounter except XT. Of course, this is to be expected, the value of Hysteria+DRW is very much inflated on non-hard mode at least.

Edit: As for the rotation, watch the video posted by Erekose somewhere around Pg 4/5. It explains the concept behind the rotation (not really a set rotation per se) very clearly. It is hard to describe the priority system in words. Watch his rune cooldowns and read what he says, spend some time on the dummy and you should be able to catch on.
I have raided with every single spec since 3.0 and this is probably the most complicated DK "rotation" to pull off *perfectly*.

 

Belladonnah

I too was bashing my head in a wall trying to understand this from thorim in arena yesterday. But the answer is right in front of you :P Read Butchery's description again (T1, blood tree)

The fact is you end up dealing the killing blow on alot of situations, specially after KM/DC powered Howling Blasts, after a while on thorim's arena i noticed the extra RP always came in batches of 20 rp and then i remembered how Butchery worked

 

Erekose

No. I specifically mentioned in my post that it was *not* from Butchery, as I understand how that works and I could have easily verified this from the combat log. Posters responding to my question pages back helped us all figure out or re-discover/verify that when attacking 4+ targets with HB you get buggy additional COTG procs resulting in a massive influx of RP. Nothing to do with Butchery....

Edit: I keep seeing people posting questions about ITx6. Read.The.Thread. Before asking questions that have been asked time and time before. If you need video demonstration of the priority system (it is definitely not a set rotation) see my video below, otherwise check back on pages ~3-8 for relevant posts and discussion.

Arioch ITx6 Machine Gun Rotation By Erekose

 

ninjaneer

No, ITx6 is just the name given to the build to maximize IT generation via DRs for KM procs. ITx6 is not the rotation. That's actually a horrible rotation to start with because you'll be short on RP. The beauty of ITx6 is the fact that you weave in FS's within your rotation and it's much more fast-paced since you're in UH presence.

 

TherionSaysWhat

It should be mentioned that, at least as far as I can tell, weaving Frost Strikes between pairs of runes usage is more efficient with the machine gun spec.

For example: OB (FS) OB (FS) BS/BS (FS) IT/IT (FS)... etc.

Each Frost Strike being optional depending on available Rune Power or secondary needs (Vesax interrupts, etc). Using this prioritizing system offered a more steady and stable RP use in my recent attempts to play the spec. Also, timed right, your non-converted runes become available in logical pairs (BB and UF) rather than ever seeing one Blood and one Unholy rune, for instance.

 

Pentaclis

I'm gonna throw this out there because I have yet to see any mention of it. I have been having very good results using the following rotation with 20/51(DRM) in Unholy Presence.

BT, IT IT PS OB BS Dump

IT IT FS OB FS BS IT Dump

I'd love to here what kind of results others are getting with it. I was able to pull 5200 dps on Ignis my first time trying the rotation(so I messed it up multiple times). This was also back when i was using an Armageddon. Once you get the rhythm down it flows very nicely.

 

PristineChaos

You are doing pretty much what has been discussed regarding DRM rotations. Key thing is to separate rune cooldowns so they refresh in pairs with FS weaved between each pair.

As for results, there have been posts, just look through the thread.

 

Ragola

A little over a month ago Methods posted his values for Frost 2H DPS:

Haste	0.79
AP	1.00
Crit	1.26
ArP	1.71
Exp	2.29
Hit	2.82
Str	2.73
WpnDPS	9.49

(17/51/3)(Double Disease)

If I am not mistaking, the rotation that was used was very Obliterate heavy.
With all the changes lately, and the common rotation using the death runes as Icy Touch instead of Obliterate, wouldn't this bring the value of ArP down and Haste up to around the same level?

The OP here shows what seems more logical but without the numbers: (Haste ~ ArP) but Methods' values (even though he said to take them with a grain of salt) are being used to calculated Frost's Best in Slot gear in the BiS thread, and in the DK_Optimizer excel spreadsheet.

My assumptions:

Stat	Value	Effect	Guess
Haste	0.79	Value will probably increase a lot	~1.20
AP	1.00	Value will not change	1.00
Crit	1.26	Value will probably not change	1.26
ArP	1.71	Value will probably decrease a lot	~1.20
Exp	2.29	Value will probably decrease a lot	~1.60
Hit	2.82	Value will probably not change	2.82
Str	2.73	value will probably not change	2.73
WpnDPS	9.49	value will probably decrease a lot	~8.5

(17/51/3)(Double Disease)

These values are not mathmatically correct. I simply putting values to my assumptions where IT is used more and Obliterate less. I am just posting this as a starting point to find the correct values for (17/51/3)'s current rotation.

Obviously Haste completely overshadows ArP with the ITx6 rotation. Exp also drops even more. My guess is the stat weights start to look more and more like unholy.

 

Erekose

The reason you have not seen mention of it is because one or more of the following is true:

1) You have not read the thread in its entirety: there has been AMPLE discussion of ITx6/DRM/Machine Gun in terms of rune usage/FS weaving and the like. This is not entirely pointed at you Pentaclis, but people please for the love of our Frost Thread stop cluttering up the discussion with questions that have been answered multiple times in the pages behind us. READ. THE. THREAD.

2) On a less ranty and more informative note, I see that you are using BT before anything else...In effect wasting a Blood rune you could have used and then refreshed (If you use one Blood rune then use BT both Blood runes refresh as Death)

3) You are using PS - PS's dmg is lousy, it gives lousy RP, and it only benefits OB and OB is used very infrequently for ITx6 as compared to our OB heavier dual-disease brethren. I don't see this as viable at all.

4) You are attempting to force DRM/ITx6 into a static rotation, even going so far as to add a Dump section. ITx6 is a dynamic, ever-changing priority system that will only cause you headache and woe if you try to make it work the same every time. Most builds will let your DPS flourish if you can execute the same thing (relatively speaking) over and over, but with this spec you actually get punished for doing that. I do agree that it flows very nicely, but only with proper weaving and paired rune usage.

As a basic example, what happens if KM procs during a portion of the rotation where you are used to using IT? Well, shucks, if we like to keep it the same each time then we better just waste the KM on IT instead of FSing which would (in 90% of cases) net us more damage. There are numerous other examples, but you catch my drift.

The best way to execute ITx6 is to spend a couple hours (yes, hours) wailing away at the dummy in Acherus playing with getting your runes to refresh in pairs allowing you to stay mid to low level on RP and not waste rune refresh time....THEN once you have a good feel for it, try it out in a raiding environment.

 

Sagakeeper

I am inclined to agree, except I'd say frost values crit more due to the beefiness from guile (45% more on crits is a pretty substantial increase compared to the other trees biggest hitters)
if you really are feeling up to it... you can setup an excel sheet or something similar with Darkside's formula (first page) on it. His x>y>z ratings I have found pretty true. It's of note that it is a pretty live formula that with some work could probably give you "put in gear vs gear" to see if your overall rating went up.

Also as frost is priority based, it's hard to assign static ratings like you would mathing a rotation. You would have to take parse information, but that would be weighted... so yeah, back to the live formula to figure out what you can do.

I'm no excel master, but if I get a template up and running I'll share it.

 

zagor

Continuing the speculation on ITx6 stat weights, I don't agree that weapon dps value will go down. At least it won't go down a lot.
FS is only 60% weapon damage, but it goes through armor. With IT/FS spam FS ends up 45+% of total damage. Compared to 35% in double disease OB rotation.

 

Timixie

I've been testing the ITx6 rotation on the dummie, and I was wondering what % of your damage each attack is doing.
I have Frost Strike at 49.8%, melee coming in at #2 for 18.2%, IT at 13% and OB at 10.9%.

I'm still getting used to the rotation, and still accidentally throwing in some OB's when not needed. Just so use to OB. Plus I'm glyphed for OB ATM, planning on changing to HB for AoE.

I don't know, what the point of this post is, I was just expecting IT to be a little more damage.

 

Esfernum

IT is just here to gather as much RP as possible. FS is the real thing and the fundamental of the 6xIT rotation.
By the way, I think it is not enough clearly stated that, as a matter of fact, don't expect to perform with the 6IT if you don't have the Ulduar Sigil.

 

Timixie

Yeah, I know. I was just expecting it to do a little more.
Yeah, I have the sigil.

 

zhev

I used the itx6 rotation pre-3.1 and loved it. Recently acquired the sigil so I'm coming back to it. Back then someone mentioned in a post maybe 2 frost threads ago of this starter rotation:
OB IT BS BT IT OB, with one or two FS woven in

This way you get the RP from a couple IT's right from the start. Just a suggestion that's all, worked well back then and I'm going to try it again.

 

Erekose

In my opinion any ITx6 rotation that does not start with an IT is not optimal. The only possible advantage that starting out with an OB could give you would be rune-pair refreshing but that can be attained without opening with OB...and you lose a significant portion of damage on your attacks by not putting up FF first.

People, if you want to try out rotations and stuff, that's fine...but "hey I just picked a random rotation and it seems to do ok for me, what do you guys think?" style posts are completely worthless unless backed up by actual data. This thread is rapidly degenerating into a crap-fest of random ITx6 posts that are not based on any logic or any testing whatsoever. Stop it please for the sake of the shreds of intelligent discussion that actually are going on in here.

 

• Darkside

OP updated with some new information, I would appreciate any and all feedback.

<XI|> if your dog barks do you debate the philosophical reason behind him barking
<XI|> no
<XI|> you say shut up idiot

 

dr_AllCOM3

You can use AMS twice on Animus, since I can use DRW twice. He lives for about 2mins.

DocsDK UI
Simulator

 

Valtiel

As a side note on your AoE entry, I'm afraid I can't offer any solid theorycraft behind this, but if you have the HB glyph, Pestilence is ALWAYS a dps loss.

I've tried more or less all combinations of possible aoe affects (PS IT PEST HB BB, Pest HB BB with FF running on your current target, etc) and nothing gets even close to HB BB BB OB in Blood Presence. I'm talking about a sensible dps difference - I tested on the Freya flower trash, which allow for an extremely high number of targets and thus theorycally huge advantages from spreading diseases.

Using PS IT Pest HB BB rotations, I clocked around 7-8k dps. With HB BB BB OB ones, I'm generally 2-3k dps more.

I've tried to replicate this in theorycraft, because the mathematical reasons are sound (short fights don't get too many ticks of diseases, HB glyph gets you two extra FF ticks over the other rotations, BB is more dmg per rune than Pest etc) but my maths seem to put Pest ahead - which I can't replicate ingame. I realize anedoctal experiences are mostly pointless, but I was wondering if anyone is experiencing the same. With hardmodes and expecially summer I'm not yet in that stage were I can relax and test things around, but so far any experiment with Pest has failed miserably for me.
Anyone has positive experiences with those aoe rotations, and along what numbers?


Anyways, if you want to insert some alternative AoE rotations, with HB glyph/no DRM there's:

HB BB BB (BT) BB OB / HB BB BB OB

And with DRM:

HB BB BB (BT) BB OB / HB BB BB BB BB

I'm not entirely sure this rotation is the best for ITx6 (nine weeks without a Vengeful Heart drop now), but on paper it seems the best, and actually makes me wonder if ITx6 should AoE in UP, at least for anything that lasts more than 10 seconds (which probably isn't much).

12 weeks without a Sigil of the Vengeful Heart drop and counting.

 

Sekke

I was wondering if anyone had any threat advice for Hodir 25-man?

I'm running the single disease HB rotation and finding myself enjoying it very much. The only problem arises on Hodir. Typically this is what happens: pull happens like normal, then I get the Lightning Cloud Buff, then I crit with a single FS and then Hodir turns around and gibs me. Ok, it doesn't ALWAYS happen like this, but it happened 3 times last night. Prior to the gib I wasn't even in the top 10 on threat and (obviously) on any other fight threat is a non-issue. Salvs and Vigilence don't seem like good solutions, since both are for people who are coming close and would potentially pull without them. The best solution we could come up with is a Soulstone, but I feel like if I die too early in the fight it might still be possible to pull.

<Insert disclaimer about how are tank is amazing and threat is usually never an issue blah blah; we have killed Hodir hard serveral times before, but I wasn't Frost then.>

Il dolce far niente.